Paganism

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Arizona_Mike said:
On all these claims of pagan borrowing, it’s important to remember what R.A. Lafferty wrote - lots of other religions claim they worship a son of a god. We worship God the Son. That’s quite a different claim, and unique among the world’s religions.

I know of no legitimate scholar whose specialty is Mithra or Mithras (the two are easily confused) or in the International Congress of Mithraic Studies who feels there was any borrowing from Mithra/Mithras by the Church. Is there a specific instance of supposed borrowing that concerns you? I’ll help you if I’m knowledgeable about the claim.
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What about Mitra, which I believe is older than the Old Testament? Could Christianity or the Old Testament have been copied in any way from that?
 
Faith1960 said:
What about Mitra, which I believe is older than the Old Testament? Could Christianity or the Old Testament have been copied in any way from that?
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Such as what specific element(s) of Jewish or Christian belief?
 
Faith1960 said:
Anything.
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I mean Christianity didn’t copy from Mithras or Mithra but is there anything in Christianity/ New Testament or the Old Testament that may have been copied from Mitra, which I believe was before the Old Testament?
 
Faith1960 said:
I mean Christianity didn’t copy from Mithras or Mithra but is there anything in Christianity/ New Testament or the Old Testament that may have been copied from Mitra, which I believe was before the Old Testament?
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Nope. It’s hard to say about anything specific unless you have a specific claim.

“Mitra” is the same as “Mitras”, by the way. Mitras is the nominative form of the word Mitra in the Indo-Iranian tongue. “Mithras” is the Roman religious deity, that has no real connection with Mitra.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
Nope. It’s hard to say about anything specific unless you have a specific claim.

“Mitra” is the same as “Mitras”, by the way. Mitras is the nominative form of the word Mitra in the Indo-Iranian tongue. “Mithras” is the Roman religious deity, that has no real connection with Mitra.
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I’m not thinking of anything specific, just wondering if anything in Christianity , anything at al
in the New Testament or Old Testament was copied from Mitra ? There was no copying of Mithra/Mithras in Christianity but I was wondering about Mitra, because
Christianity came before Mithras, but IIRC, Mitras came before both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
Nope. It’s hard to say about anything specific unless you have a specific claim.
.
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Nope… nothing from Christianity/ New Testament and Old Testament was copied from Mitra? Or nope, you don’t know of anything because I didn’t mention anything specific?
 
Faith1960 said:
I’m not thinking of anything specific, just wondering if anything in Christianity , anything at al
in the New Testament or Old Testament was copied from Mitra ? There was no copying of Mithra/Mithras in Christianity but I was wondering about Mitra, because
Christianity came before Mithras, but IIRC, Mitras came before both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
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*but IIRC MITRA came before both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
 
Nope, I know of nothing in the proto-Iranian worship of Mitra that was borrowed for either Old Testament Judaism or New Testament Christianity. Just because something predates Christianity doesn’t mean that it was a source, People sacrificed their babies to Baal before Christ, it does not follow from that antecedent that it was in any way a source for Christianity. What little we know about Mitra is radically different from Judaism or Christianity.
 
Christianity or some.of it’s beliefs and practices had been believed by some to.have been copied from Mithras, do some believe that Christianity was copied from Mitra too, or just Mithras?
 
Faith1960 said:
Christianity or some.of it’s beliefs and practices had been believed by some to.have been copied from Mithras, do some believe that Christianity was copied from Mitra too, or just Mithras?
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Please be more specific, Faith. Believed by whom? Which Christian beliefs and practices? I myself am not arguing that Christianity was borrowed from any of the supposed gods who went under the name of Mitras, Mithras, Mitra, et al., so I can’t really answer if “some” believe that Christianity was stolen from ancient Iranian and/or Roman cults, or to say if their views are justified without hearing the reasons they hold their beliefs. I’m not part of their group. There are all kinds of crazy beliefs on the Internet and in crank books. One can argue that a lot of people believe goofy things, that is not in question. What is in question is whether those are valid claims or not.
 
Arizona_Mike said:
Please be more specific, Faith. Believed by whom? Which Christian beliefs and practices? I myself am not arguing that Christianity was borrowed from any of the supposed gods who went under the name of Mitras, Mithras, Mitra, et al., so I can’t really answer if “some” believe that Christianity was stolen from ancient Iranian and/or Roman cults, or to say if their views are justified without hearing the reasons they hold their beliefs. I’m not part of their group. There are all kinds of crazy beliefs on the Internet and in crank books. One can argue that a lot of people believe goofy things, that is not in question. What is in question is whether those are valid claims or not.
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I’m sorry, I dont know how to explain what I’m trying to say, except that there are claims by anti -Christians that Christianity’s beliefs and practices (born of a virgin, the Eucharist, died and rose again, being the son of God, had 12 disciples, etc. ect. etc.) was copied from Mithra and Mithras. I wanted to know if that includes Mitra or just Mithra and Mithras? By copying, I mean their beliefs, and practices . I want to know if these people claim Christianity was copied from Mitra, too, or just Mithra and Mithras?
 
Faith1960 said:
I’m sorry, I dont know how to explain what I’m trying to say, except that there are claims by anti -Christians that Christianity’s beliefs and practices
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Everyone uses different spellings (Mitra/Mitras/Mithra/Mithras/Mothra - wait, the last one fought Godzilla.). Easier just to say Iranian Mithra and Roman Mithra.

“born of a virgin”, No for both.

“the Eucharist” No for both.

“died and rose again” No for both.

“being the son of God” No for both.

“had 12 disciples” No for both.
I wanted to know if that includes Mitra or just Mithra and Mithras? By copying, I mean their beliefs, and practices . I want to know if these people claim Christianity was copied from Mitra, too, or just Mithra and Mithras?
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Which people? I have no idea what other people are claiming if I don’t even know who they are…
 
Arizona_Mike said:
Everyone uses different spellings (Mitra/Mitras/Mithra/Mithras/Mothra - wait, the last one fought Godzilla.). Easier just to say Iranian Mithra and Roman Mithra.

“born of a virgin”, No for both.

“the Eucharist” No for both.

“died and rose again” No for both.

“being the son of God” No for both.

“had 12 disciples” No for both.

Which people? I have no idea what other people are claiming if I don’t even know who they are…
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The anti-Christians who are bent on saying Christianity is a copy of Mithra, Mithra.
  1. Do anti-Christians also claim that Christianity was copied from MITRA?
  2. And could Christianity have been copied from MITRA?
 
Faith1960 said:
The anti-Christians who are bent on saying Christianity is a copy of Mithra, Mithra.
  1. Do anti-Christians also claim that Christianity was copied from MITRA?
  2. And could Christianity have been copied from MITRA?
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  1. You would have to ask them. Anti-Christians say all kind of crazy things, so maybe they did.
  2. No. There are no parallels.
 
This was a theory created in the 1800s if memory serves. It was promty put to bed but has resurfaced in the internet age. There’s an extremely silly video circulating called Zeitgeist. I can only say that the author must have known he was lying when he produced it. I mean people can have different interpretations of things or occasionally be uninformed of a context, or unaware of a fact. But this movie is sooo bad, as I say I can only conclude this guy is very aware of what he’s doing. I hope I get to stand next to him before the judgement. Might make me look a little better 🙂

William Lane craig does a fabulous critique of these lies and conjecture.

Some guys also put together a video called Zeitgeist refuted. It’s pretty good if memory serves. I’m sure there are some good Catholic refutations available. I’m “new” to the faith so I’m not sure where they would be. Check Craig though. Very smart man well informed and usually keeps his comments very non sectarian, preferring instead to analyze a Lewis type of “Mere Christianity.”
 
Faith1960 said:
The anti-Christians who are bent on saying Christianity is a copy of Mithra, Mithra.
  1. Do anti-Christians also claim that Christianity was copied from MITRA?
  2. And could Christianity have been copied from MITRA?
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AZM, When I answered your question I meant to say " the anti-Christians who are bent on saying Christianity is a copy of Mithra and Mithras…" But you probably already knew that.
 
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