Pain in the afterlife

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The question came to mind the other day, do or can spirits in the afterlife feel physical or physical-like pain? Of course we know there is suffering set aside for some in the afterlife and certainly part of that is mental anguish.

But without physical bodies, how do you suppose they can feel physical pain? Something similar to Dante where a soul would be placed into a tree or some sort of afterlife shadow that can feel pain?
 
As Catholics we profess to believe in the resurection of the body, so yes we will have physical bodies in the afterlife when at the end of the world the land and sea gives up its dead.
 
Resurrection of the body? That’s one i’ve never heard of before. Is it an official teaching of the Church?
 
Even if their bodies were cremated and the ashes spread out somewhere?
 
Starwynd said:
Even if their bodies were cremated and the ashes spread out somewhere?
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Yes

From the CCC
991 Belief in the resurrection of the dead has been an essential element of the Christian faith from its beginnings. "The confidence of Christians is the resurrection of the dead; believing this we live."538 (Tertullian, De res. 1,1:PL 2,841) How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. . . . But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.539 (1 Cor 15:12-14.)366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235 (Cf. Pius XII, Humani Generis: DS 3896; Paul VI, CPG § 8; Lateran Council V (1513): DS 1440)
2301 …The Church permits cremation, provided that it does not demonstrate a denial of faith in the resurrection of the body.
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We affirm this belief every Sunday when we profess our faith. The book of Revelations speaks of the earth, sea and Hades giving up their dead for the final judgement. True, only those who attain the beatific vision will have glorified bodies,
 
tobias said:
We affirm this belief every Sunday when we profess our faith. The book of Revelations speaks of the earth, sea and Hades giving up their dead for the final judgement. True, only those who attain the beatific vision will have glorified bodies,
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That’s where I was assuming that those condemned didn’t have eternal bodies with which to suffer pain.

Starwynd, if you think about it, most bodies eventually turn to dust, which is pretty much the equivalent of ashes, through normal decay over the centuries. Only a rare occurance will, relatively speaking, preserve bodies…like freezing in a glacier or a combination of the right amount of dryness and proper temperature.
 
I think the Lord’s repeated assertion that their will be ‘wailing and gnashing of teeth’ points to physical bodies suffering pain. Honestly I never thought of the condemned as not receiving their bodies back at the last judgement. Not they they would need physical bodies to suffer in Hell since the scriptures imply that the fallen angels will suffer as well.
 
tobias said:
I think the Lord’s repeated assertion that their will be ‘wailing and gnashing of teeth’ points to physical bodies suffering pain. Honestly I never thought of the condemned as not receiving their bodies back at the last judgement. Not they they would need physical bodies to suffer in Hell since the scriptures imply that the fallen angels will suffer as well.
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Maybe that’s a better question…fallen angels, being angels and never having had or never will have real bodies…how would they suffer physical pain?
 
Newbie2 said:
Maybe that’s a better question…fallen angels, being angels and never having had or never will have real bodies…how would they suffer physical pain?
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It seems to me that in this life we suffer and experience joy in body, mind a spirit (physical, mental and spiritual). I don’t believe that angels would suffer any less because they lack a physical body, but would suffer in mind (intellect) and spirit. This may differentiate the how, but not neccessarily the quantity of suffering.
 
tobias said:
It seems to me that in this life we suffer and experience joy in body, mind a spirit (physical, mental and spiritual). I don’t believe that angels would suffer any less because they lack a physical body, but would suffer in mind (intellect) and spirit. This may differentiate the how, but not neccessarily the quantity of suffering.
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Good point. I think that while we can focus and perhaps relate somewhat to Christ’s physical pain during his torture we don’t have any idea as to the mental and spiritual anguish that he suffered.
 
Newbie2 said:
The question came to mind the other day, do or can spirits in the afterlife feel physical or physical-like pain? Of course we know there is suffering set aside for some in the afterlife and certainly part of that is mental anguish.

But without physical bodies, how do you suppose they can feel physical pain? Something similar to Dante where a soul would be placed into a tree or some sort of afterlife shadow that can feel pain?
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You might be able to get an idea from looking at Luke chapter 16 , verses 19 - 31 … the Lord Jesus tells a story of a rich man and a man named Lazarus , also involving Abraham .
If you zero in on Luke 16:24 in particular it says this :
So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
It seems to me he must have been in pain in that heat , and how much of a thirst must he have been suffering from that he would beg for even just one drop of water ?
 
Glimpse_Ahead said:
You might be able to get an idea from looking at Luke chapter 16 , verses 19 - 31 … the Lord Jesus tells a story of a rich man and a man named Lazarus , also involving Abraham .
If you zero in on Luke 16:24 in particular it says this :
So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
It seems to me he must have been in pain in that heat , and how much of a thirst must he have been suffering from that he would beg for even just one drop of water ?
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Good point. I wonder if it’s an actual bodily experience of pain (nerve fibers being stimulated) or the perceptions of pain that the afterlife body experiences. Moot point perhaps, as it hurts either way. 🤷
 
Newbie2 said:
The question came to mind the other day, do or can spirits in the afterlife feel physical or physical-like pain? Of course we know there is suffering set aside for some in the afterlife and certainly part of that is mental anguish.

But without physical bodies, how do you suppose they can feel physical pain? Something similar to Dante where a soul would be placed into a tree or some sort of afterlife shadow that can feel pain?
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That is a very interesting question. My formal training in philosophy has been primarily in Thomistics (philosophy of St. Thomas Aquinas), so my answer will echo what Aquinas said on the issue.

For Aquinas, pain is something that has to be experienced(it dose not exist in and of itself). While the ways to experience pain are many, there are two major categories for describing pain: pain that is physical, and pain that is emotional. Physical pain would be very simple: someone punches me in the face, and I feel a great deal of pain in my face for quite some time after that. For emotional pain: the death of a loved one. I don’t feel a physical pain, rather emotional pain must somehow reside in the intellect (though it is interesting to note that this pain tends to be much more intense, since there are those who turn to physical pain as a way to deal with the emotional pain).

So for Aquinas, our eternal soul, being deprived of its physical faculties after death, would be unable to feel any kind of physical pain, since it literally lacks the necessary faculties to feel physical pain.

Emotional pain, however, would still be very much a reality since (as far as I can conclude) is a pain felt by the soul.

I hope this helps, (and I hope I am not in too great an error!)
 
People who die before the End:

Heaven: Spiritual/mental Bliss.
Purgatory: Spiritual suffering.
Hell: Spiritual/mental pain.

At the end times when you unite with your body:

Heaven: Spiritual/Physical Bliss at the same time.
Purgatory: Ceases to be at the end.
Hell: Spiritual/Physical Pain at the same time.
 
Newbie2 said:
The question came to mind the other day, do or can spirits in the afterlife feel physical or physical-like pain? Of course we know there is suffering set aside for some in the afterlife and certainly part of that is mental anguish.

But without physical bodies, how do you suppose they can feel physical pain? Something similar to Dante where a soul would be placed into a tree or some sort of afterlife shadow that can feel pain?
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Something like that 🙂​

Remorse is a spiritual pain - the body is not always involved, of itself; yet remorse, regret, depression etc., bring real anguish. Multiply that a thousand times, & think of it as overflowing to the body, & one has a very very very faint picture of Hell. As Dante makes clear, the souls in Purgatory stay until they are purged: they stay, not because they are “told to”, but because they are not fitted for God’s Presence until they know themselves to be purified totally.

What will be really appalling :eek: is to see sins as they really are; in this life, something - the body ? God’s Mercy ? - won’t let us see what sin is really or fully like, so we are sheltered; but in Hell, therte is no escape. Sin is an illusion, & a lie, but the punishment for it will be anything but an illusion. There is no escape from the self in the next life - in this life, there can be: we all have to sleep - but in Heaven, with a glorified body, presumably illusion is equally out of place :), & sleep too.
 
Newbie2 said:
Good point. I wonder if it’s an actual bodily experience of pain (nerve fibers being stimulated) or the perceptions of pain that the afterlife body experiences. Moot point perhaps, as it hurts either way. 🤷
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Nerves are part of the material, therefore corruptible, body - so probably not :cool: That pain is probably nothing to the pains of Hell, which are pain that affect what & who one** is**: not what one is made of. Besides, a perishable body would not have the capacity for suffering. Hell is indescribably awful - nothing in all creation could possibly be anything like the loss of God AKA the pain of loss : and that is what makes Hell Hellish; the pain of sense - which what you’re asking about 🙂 - is very definitely secondary to that :eek:​

 
It’s a funny thing about physical pain. It isn’t just physical. We experience it only when we know it, in our mind/intellect. For example: normally, being cut open with a knife would be very painful. However, when anesthetized, we experience no pain when it happens - even tho the same physical wound is inflicted.

And then there’s the opposite phenomena - where the physical sensation is experienced in the mind/intellect even tho there’s no corresponding physical component. Example: people who have had a limb amputated often experience itching in the limb that is no longer there.
So I’d say yes, it’s entirely possible that we might be able to experience pain in our souls even tho we’re not united to our physical body.

We are definitely interesting creatures!

Nita
 
Starwynd said:
Even if their bodies were cremated and the ashes spread out somewhere?
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You made me laugh for aproximately 20 seconds. Thankyou.

The ressurection of the body is simply the re-ordering of atoms back to life. Principly, it would not matter if your body was smashed into pure energy, it could still be recreated so far as each body has a biological mathematical pattern, structure and signiture that represents each individual. For a God who is all knowing, this shouldn’t be a problem.
 
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