"Painkillers"

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FaithBuild18

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*CCC 2279

“Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable. Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.”*

Am I free to choose not to take painkillers should I experience an excruciating death? Am I in error for having the belief that redemption is found in suffering, even if I don’t impose that onto other Catholics?

Also, what does the church consider “painkillers?” Getting drunk can be thought of as a painkiller, but I have a hard time believing this would be morally acceptable in times of pain. It seems like to me if the “painkiller” removes the person from his state of self awareness and consciousness, it should be illegitimate and immoral.
 
Have you ever been present at the death of a person who is suffering? For instance, a cancer patient? There are times when the only way to relieve pain is to remove the consciousness of the patient.
I have worked in healthcare for over 25 years now and in no way can I ever agree that letting a person suffer needlessly is the right thing to do. There is nothing immoral or illegitimate about allowing a patient to have relief from their pain.
I have a feeling you are fairly young and have not ever witnessed real suffering. For you to choose not to medicate pain is fine, but for you to make a judgment of others that to relieve their pain is immoral is in itself immoral. Making a choice to not relieve pain with medication when you are not actually suffering is easy to do. It’s a whole different matter when you are in agony because cancer cells are destroying your body or you’ve been in a horrible car crash and have multiple broken bones, internal bleeding, etc.
Offer up your pain when you have it, and more power to you, but don’t presume to know the morality or legitimacy of another’s suffering or choice of methods to relieve it.
 
I had to respond one more time because I looked at your profile to see if you’re as young as you sound and saw that you are an “aspiring dentist.” I find that frightening, to be totally honest. How are you going to handle pain control in your patients if you succeed in you aspirations to become a dentist? Are you going to forego novacaine and suggest that they offer up their pain as you do extractions or root canals? :eek:
I’m not trying to be mean here but you must see that what you are saying is just plain lacking in compassion. Truly think this through - do you really think that Jesus, who loves us SO much he gave up his life for us, wants us to suffer needlessly? If that were the case he could have skipped all of the suffering He did FOR US.
 
CCC 2279

"Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable. Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged."


Am I free to choose not to take painkillers should I experience an excruciating death? Am I in error for having the belief that redemption is found in suffering, even if I don’t impose that onto other Catholics?

Also, what does the church consider “painkillers?” Getting drunk can be thought of as a painkiller, but I have a hard time believing this would be morally acceptable in times of pain
. I don’t know what the mystery is. Clearly this passage is not talking about going out and getting drunk (or using narcotics) because you are in pain. It is talking specifically about the end of life of a patient who is dying and is in a great deal of pain. Pain relief is part of their care and should not be denied on moral grounds (as some people here have claimed in the past). Even if the painkiller might shorten life it is still moral, for instance morphine for hospice patients.

If you have not sat at the bedside day and night with a parent or other loved one dying of cancer you may not understand the situation completely (and I hope you never find out). Just because you think now you would prefer to undergo such suffering does not therefore mean it is immoral for a patient to choose pain relief or for a doctor to administer it. The passage also implies it would be immoral to withhold pain medication from a patient who needs
it.It seems like to me if the “painkiller” removes the person from his state of self awareness and consciousness, it should be illegitimate and immoral.
please explain to me why you think this is true since I know of no Catholic teaching that states this. Do you really think God wants or the Church teaches the dying person in pain must endure the pain and reject any treatment that mercifully dulls the consciousness of pain? what kind of warped source did you get this from?
 
*CCC 2279

“Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable. Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.”*

Am I free to choose not to take painkillers should I experience an excruciating death? Am I in error for having the belief that redemption is found in suffering, even if I don’t impose that onto other Catholics?

Also, what does the church consider “painkillers?” Getting drunk can be thought of as a painkiller, but I have a hard time believing this would be morally acceptable in times of pain. It seems like to me if the “painkiller” removes the person from his state of self awareness and consciousness, it should be illegitimate and immoral.
Yes, you are free to choose not to take painkillers-Jesus himself rejected a painkiller (wine mixed with myrrh) offered to him before his crucifixion. And you are correct that suffering is an important part of redemption-this is confirmed by the teachings of many saints and doctors of the Church.
 
Pain relief is part of their care and should not be denied on moral grounds (as some people here have claimed in the past).
However, given certain precautions are taken so that the decision can be reversed, etc etc, it may be legitimate to refuse it for yourself. Not on the grounds that pain killers are immoral, but rather out of a desire to use your own pain for good. I don’t think this is a route I would be likely to take, but I don’t see it necessarily being prohibited.

On another note, the use of alcohol as a pain killer, even to the point of limiting the ‘patient’s’ faculties, would probably be legitimate if it were used purely for this purpose and the other effects were controlled by the one administering it (see every Civil War movie ever), but this is quiet different from going out and getting smashed with some pain or other as an excuse. Since we have better methods of pain killing available that don’t any side effects of that sort, the alcohol route would be hard to justify these days, but I do not think that it is necessarily self defeating.
 
I know there are a lot of brave people out there and I thought I was one them because when I was young I thought a sprained ankle or a bloody nose was painful …After two prolonged labors and then a smashed ankle which needed two pins and a titanium plate held in with five studs ,at which time I thanked God and still do every day for his mercy i can guarantee i would face the dentist anytime…I hope the person who is questioning other peoples morality for accepting pain relief never has to put their money where their mouth is…Would you deny insulin to a diabetic child or morphine to a child burned by a chemical bomb.You have no idea of the human body’s capacity to survive through horrendous pain but why would you if God in his mercy sent us scientists with the intelligence to find relief .Have mercy my friend ,have mercy
 
I had to respond one more time because I looked at your profile to see if you’re as young as you sound and saw that you are an “aspiring dentist.” I find that frightening, to be totally honest. How are you going to handle pain control in your patients if you succeed in you aspirations to become a dentist? Are you going to forego novacaine and suggest that they offer up their pain as you do extractions or root canals? :eek:
I’m not trying to be mean here but you must see that what you are saying is just plain lacking in compassion. Truly think this through - do you really think that Jesus, who loves us SO much he gave up his life for us, wants us to suffer needlessly? If that were the case he could have skipped all of the suffering He did FOR US.
Where did you get the idea that the OP was talking about making anyone else suffer? He specifically mentioned that he doesn’t impose his beliefs even on other Catholics. And Jesus does not want us to suffer needlessly, but no suffering on earth or in purgatory is needless. Please check out these two pages:
whitelilyoftrinity.com/saints_quotes_suffering.html
religious-vocation.com/redemptive_suffering.html
As St. Paul says, “For to you has been granted, for the sake of Christ, not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him” (Philippians 1:29). We are given suffering as a gift, even such a great gift that, St. Faustina said, “If the angels were capable of envy, they would envy us for two things: one is the receiving of Holy Communion, and the other is suffering.” Why would you want the OP to refuse this gift?
 
I had to respond one more time because I looked at your profile to see if you’re as young as you sound and saw that you are an “aspiring dentist.” I find that frightening, to be totally honest. How are you going to handle pain control in your patients if you succeed in you aspirations to become a dentist? Are you going to forego novacaine and suggest that they offer up their pain as you do extractions or root canals? :eek:
I’m not trying to be mean here but you must see that what you are saying is just plain lacking in compassion. Truly think this through - do you really think that Jesus, who loves us SO much he gave up his life for us, wants us to suffer needlessly? If that were the case he could have skipped all of the suffering He did FOR US.
Maybe you have difficulty with reading comprehension. I specifically noted that I do not impose this view on other people. Furthermore I find it many times more audacious for you to call my sheer opinion on this immoral. The actual question posed was with regards to my own personal choices to deny myself of painkillers.

Now stop bullying just because you’re older.
 
. what kind of warped source did you get this from?
Just my own still-developing conscience. It is being informed by as many corners of Church teaching that I can find. Can I give you a source that says exactly what I said? Absolutely not. Otherwise I would not have come here to ask about it. I also could not find anything refuting my opinion. This is why I use this forum, to gain insight about those things which seem ambiguous to me.

But my thoughts come from things like this:
And you are correct that suffering is an important part of redemption-this is confirmed by the teachings of many saints and doctors of the Church.
and this:
As St. Paul says, “For to you has been granted, for the sake of Christ, not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him” (Philippians 1:29). We are given suffering as a gift, even such a great gift that, St. Faustina said, “If the angels were capable of envy, they would envy us for two things: one is the receiving of Holy Communion, and the other is suffering.” Why would you want the OP to refuse this gift?
 
However, given certain precautions are taken so that the decision can be reversed, etc etc, it may be legitimate to refuse it for yourself. Not on the grounds that pain killers are immoral, but rather out of a desire to use your own pain for good. I don’t think this is a route I would be likely to take, but I don’t see it necessarily being prohibited.

On another note, the use of alcohol as a pain killer, even to the point of limiting the ‘patient’s’ faculties, would probably be legitimate if it were used purely for this purpose and the other effects were controlled by the one administering it (see every Civil War movie ever), but this is quiet different from going out and getting smashed with some pain or other as an excuse. Since we have better methods of pain killing available that don’t any side effects of that sort, the alcohol route would be hard to justify these days, but I do not think that it is necessarily self defeating.
Thanks. That answers the question and addresses my concerns.
 
I know there are a lot of brave people out there and I thought I was one them because when I was young I thought a sprained ankle or a bloody nose was painful …After two prolonged labors and then a smashed ankle which needed two pins and a titanium plate held in with five studs ,at which time I thanked God and still do every day for his mercy i can guarantee i would face the dentist anytime…I hope the person who is questioning other peoples morality for accepting pain relief never has to put their money where their mouth is…Would you deny insulin to a diabetic child or morphine to a child burned by a chemical bomb.You have no idea of the human body’s capacity to survive through horrendous pain but why would you if God in his mercy sent us scientists with the intelligence to find relief .Have mercy my friend ,have mercy
Of course I wouldn’t.

Firstly, I never suggested anywhere that I would ever refuse another person any sort of treatment. I simply posed two seperate questions. The first one, and the only one mentioning death, was if I, me, FaithBuild18 can morally choose to reject painkillers should I experience a painful death. The second one was simply “What does the Church consider ‘painkillers?’”

Secondly, I consider Insulin treatment as a treatment of a condition, not the removal of pain associated with a dying individual. I also don’t consider morphine to be on the same level as alcohol. Though it is many times more addictive, morphine is properly regulated and typically used strictly for serious medicinal purposes.

Alcohol is by the far the most widely abused drug on the globe. It’s abuse reduces the human qualities of the mind, rendering one no more rational than a wild gorilla. People go home and drink to ease their petty suffering of a long day at work. To me that is unacceptable. That’s why I asked what exactly the Church considers to be a “painkiller.” That was the very first question of my second paragraph, and I justified my inquiry by saying some people might rationalize alcohol use (or any drug abuse for that matter) in order to ease whatever pain they feel. I consider morphine (as is typically used) to be a valid painkiller. I do not consider alcohol (as is typically used) to be a valid painkiller. I wanted to know if the Church has any statement on what is and is not a painkiller, and under what conditions besides inevitable death are their uses validated. Because as is I find it ambiguous.

My inquiry was inspired by the fact that CCC 2279 specifically says that it is in moral conformity for painkillers to be used for the “dying” if death is “only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable”. So even if I get my leg ran over by an army tank and every bone below my femur shatters, and all of my veins, arteries, and capillaries burst, but I get to a clinic right away and they can save my life no problem, it makes it sound as if the use of painkillers is illegitimate. It makes no mention of those who are only troubled by transient, albeit intense, non-life threatening pains. CCC says this:

CCC 2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

But what are the qualifications for “strictly therapeutic grounds”? Does temporary, non-life threatening pain qualify? Does emotional pain qualify? If so then alcohol use is justified to help one escape from their painful family life or a simple bump on the head. If temporary non-life threatening pain does not qualify for therapeutic drug use, then it sounds like I shouldn’t take Ibuprofen if I strain my hamstring.

As another user pointed out, I’m still young. As a college student I can testify that the current youthful culture is notorious for rationalizing any hedonistic desire they may have. I fear a time in which any sort of pain, physical or emotional, is absolutely abhorred (as it pretty much already is, as is apparent in some posts on this forum), and as such, drunkeness becomes a morally legitimate escape. The effects of this, I think, are pretty serious. Few people see the beauty in suffering, or the spiritual gains that can be made by pushing yourself through the pain and enduring the suffering that comes with sheerly being alive. Where will it go next? Suicide is the ultimate pain killer, and it seems to always be on the rise (particularly among young males).
 
Maybe you have difficulty with reading comprehension. I specifically noted that I do not impose this view on other people. Furthermore I find it many times more audacious for you to call my sheer opinion on this immoral. The actual question posed was with regards to my own personal choices to deny myself of painkillers.

Now stop bullying just because you’re older.
I’m sorry that you feel my opinion differing from yours is bullying, but you said, and I quote,
It seems like to me if the “painkiller” removes the person from his state of self awareness and consciousness, it should be illegitimate and immoral.
Your phrasing implied, to me at least, that “it should be illegitimate and immoral” was being applied to people in general because you referred to “the person” and not specifically yourself. If I inferred incorrectly, please pardon me but it was your phrasing and not my reading comprehension that lead me to that conclusion.
And I do not consider your “sheer opinion” to be immoral, but your imposition of it on others would be in my own opinion.
And just for the record, I’m not sure what my age has to do with your sense of being bullied, especially since bullying seems to a past-time more favored by younger people.
 
After a freak accident, where I was lying underneath a 4 story Maple tree and it was sawed off of me, I was grateful that while in the hospital in immeasureable pain the doctor prescribed me
morph. based medicine for 5 weeks. I took 1/2 the dose prescribed and it was beneficial.
It is noted by most physician’s that pain medication allows the body to heal faster also.

I am glad that God gave scientists the brains to develop certain medicine’s to address serious and acute pain when needed. I never considered this prescription to be “illegitimate or immoral”.
 
I’m sorry that you feel my opinion differing from yours is bullying, but you said, and I quote,
Your phrasing implied, to me at least, that “it should be illegitimate and immoral” was being applied to people in general because you referred to “the person” and not specifically yourself. If I inferred incorrectly, please pardon me but it was your phrasing and not my reading comprehension that lead me to that conclusion.
Ok I will pardon you for your incorrect inference, and apologize for not using enough words in my phrasing. But you are taking the quote out of context. The question posed was what the Church considers to be a painkiller. I followed it up by suggesting some may rationalize drunkeness as a painkiller, and then tried my best to refute such a claim by suggesting the sentence that you quoted. Context is in fact an important part of reading comprehension.
And I do not consider your “sheer opinion” to be immoral, but your imposition of it on others would be in my own opinion.
Do your best to read the post in its entirety. I specifically said that I would not impose such an opinion.
And just for the record, I’m not sure what my age has to do with your sense of being bullied, especially since bullying seems to a past-time more favored by younger people.
Well, you come in here and throw your “25 years experience” around as an appeal to authority while asserting that my remarks sound “young,” suggesting I lack an understanding of “real suffering” (thus implying irrationality behind my opinion) and concluded that my simple questioning about this topic is frightening given my aspirations. So considering all of this, did you expect me to take your comments any other way besides bullying? 😃
 
It is noted by most physician’s that pain medication allows the body to heal faster also.
Well that depends entirely upon the type of injury we’re talking about. If you strain a muscle, taking an anti-inflammatory works in opposition to your body’s natural healing mechanisms. In most practical cases, anti-inflammatories will delay the healing process. Obviously however if it’s a serious strain and the resulting swelling poses extraneous dangers, an anti-inflammatory would overall be a good idea, not for the sake of removing pain but for the sake of preventing further damage.
I am glad that God gave scientists the brains to develop certain medicine’s to address serious and acute pain when needed.
Yet we still have a dire need for organizations like the Food and Drug Administration, because many of these “certain medicine’s” have serious side effects, and others have long lasting negative impacts. Simply because something promises to remove your pain doesn’t mean you shouldn’t question what else it will do to you.
I never considered this prescription to be “illegitimate or immoral”.
Cool. Congratulations. If you actually read my posts you’d see that I specifically mentioned my approval (in the form of an opinion) of morphine.
 
I think you folk should go get a job or volunteer some where you have too much time on your hands
 
Well that depends entirely upon the type of injury we’re talking about. If you strain a muscle, taking an anti-inflammatory works in opposition to your body’s natural healing mechanisms. In most practical cases, anti-inflammatories will delay the healing process. Obviously however if it’s a serious strain and the resulting swelling poses extraneous dangers, an anti-inflammatory would overall be a good idea, not for the sake of removing pain but for the sake of preventing further damage.

Yet we still have a dire need for organizations like the Food and Drug Administration, because many of these “certain medicine’s” have serious side effects, and others have long lasting negative impacts. Simply because something promises to remove your pain doesn’t mean you shouldn’t question what else it will do to you.

Cool. Congratulations. If you actually read my posts you’d see that I specifically mentioned my approval (in the form of an opinion) of morphine.
Thankyou for your clarifications.
Absolutely, certain medicine’s have serious side effects. No question about that.
You state that quite well.

God Bless You and have a very nice summer.🙂
 
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