Palestinian-Israeli Conflict

[rikkk1958]

This is all a little happy little game the Israeli’s play. The moment there is “peace” the world wont hear of Palestine. When there is peace, they will happily continue to build their security fences, checkpoints in Gaza and settlements and exclusive highways in the W.B. and further “break/partition” the Palestinians until there will be no land left.

I highly recommend you look at diagrams showing this. Eg. Barack’s 2000 offer and Sharon’s 2003 plan.

Peace will bring about the slow extermination of the Palestinian people through these means.

yours truly

I am not sure what you are claiming here however, it may be true because if one believes that ownership is his, he will make sure he gets what is due. The whole claims of ownership are mutual for both of them and as you can see they are both claiming the ownership with the power of the will.

My point here as Christian, this whole thing of claims are mind boggling and if one’s heart will be put into it, the feeling would be of great distress especially for Christians who knows about “love” and compassion. The fight had been going on for centuries and for me I find the whole story is with divine intervention. This is because of what these people are all about.

There are so many who need our love and compassion, Palestinians are only one of those. I feel compassion also for innocents who were blown up by suicides bombers but what bothers me is our hypocrisy because we only voice our opinion when the media focuses on the ones that they want covered.

Our nature as human beings is to react and yours is different because of your own knowledge about this subject, my reaction is based also from my knowledge of the same subject. R-not as you can see is more thorough because of not only the knowledge she has but probably there are experiences in her life that affected her.

What I can say is, you can continue to show compassion to anyone you want. You as Catholic is understandably has to feel that way. It is our nature. What I wanted to emphasized, and I know that many catholic apologetics have already made clear that the brutality of these war was overwhelming and Israel is not anymore in sync with the old covenant from God because of the new covenant of the Son, I still believe that we as mere created beings may never know the true plan of God. This is so because God is everything, the beginning and the end. He can do anything and anything in His plan are under His will and will be judged by Him alone. Which means, those who suffered by losses or death may find grace from Him no matter who you are.

For me, the Middle East is the window of God’s works. Mysterious as it can be, all we can do is watch, feel, and ask. Christians have to pray, and that is why every Sunday, in our Mass, we always ask God for ending the wars in the world, especially in the Middle East. For Israel and the Arabs, they will just do what they think they believed is best for them. We should continue to pray.

 

[R_not]

Number of dead on Gaza is inflated

Physician at Gaza’s Shifa Hospital tells Italian newspaper number of dead in Israeli offensive ‘stands at no more than 500 or 600, most of them youths recruited to Hamas’ ranks’. Senior Palestinian Health Ministry official denies claims, IDF estimate on 1,200 casualties in Strip remains

What really is behind the numbers reported on the number of civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip? Italian newspaper Corriere Della Sera reported Thursday that a doctor working in Gaza’s Shifa Hospital claimed that Hamas has intentionally inflated the number of casualties resulting from Israel’s Operation Cast Lead.

…

‘Mostly armed teenagers’
A Tal al-Hawa resident told the newspaper’s reporter, “Armed Hamas men sought out a good position for provoking the Israelis. There were mostly teenagers, aged 16 or 17, and armed. They couldn’t do a thing against a tank or a jet. They knew they are much weaker, but they fired at our houses so that they could blame Israel for war crimes.”

The reporter for the Italian newspaper also quoted reporters in the Strip who told of Hamas’ exaggerated figures, “We have already said to Hamas commanders – why do you insist on inflating the number of victims?”

These same reporters mentioned that the truth that will come out is likely to be similar to what occurred in Operation Defensive Shield in Jenin. “Then, there was first talk of 1,500 deaths. But then it turned out that there were only 54, 45 of which were armed men,” the Palestinian reporters told the Italian newspaper.

So, once again we see that muslims have killed, or caused to die, more of their own musims.

Will our mainstream media pick up on this and tell us the truth? Will the muslim media tell the truth? I know what I will be on and the truth in these reporting businesses is… the truth is very inconvenient.

 

[swariffin]

NEWS FLASH! Gaza is the most densely populated area of the world with 1.5 million people living on a small strip of land. Should Hamas wear red coats and head to the small open fields to engage the Isreali military in single line formations? Also, Isreal did not allow foreign journalists into Gaza during the war. Why?

Now of course Hamas is a terrorist organization but really, what should they have done to engage the Isreali military?

No way. Gaza region is about 650 Km square, with 1.5 million people you say. Jakarta is also about 650 km square with 12 million in it.

 

[aldgh]

dear swariffin,

I hope you read my reply to your original statement.

Your previous statement is most contradictory.

 

[dzheremi]

Aldgh, I don’t know if you’re refering to Swariffin’s statement about Jakarta’s population density compared to Gazan population density, but that statement is correct. Typing “Population density of Gaza” into Google, you’ll find that Gaza has a density of 10,665/sq MI, while Jakarta has 29,307.5/sq MI.

 

[Reuben_J]

While I really, really, really feel for the plight of ordinary Palestinians either in Gaza or the West Bank, there are also many parts of the world where people experience even worse condition than them except that they don’t seem to get the publicity that the Palestinians have. One might wonder whatever happen to the mass media and where are they?

 

[dzheremi]

Here’s one: There are something like 3.5-4.5 million Assyrians in the world, most of them are living outside of their homelands.

To propose a free and internationally recognized Palestine is at least a position that has some traction with many influential people and world governments. To propose a free and internationally recognized Assyria is likely to be met with indifference, confusion (“you mean Syria? That’s already a country!”), or derision.

Below is a list from the CIA World Factbook of all the countries and territories of the world that have under 3 million total population:

138 Mongolia 2,996,081 July 2008 est.
139 Armenia 2,968,586 July 2008 est.
140 Jamaica 2,804,332 July 2008 est.
141 Kuwait 2,596,799 July 2008 est.
142 West Bank 2,407,681 July 2008 est.
143 Latvia 2,245,423 July 2008 est.
144 Lesotho 2,128,180 July 2008 est.
145 Kosovo 2,126,708 2007 est.
146 Namibia 2,088,669 July 2008 est.
147 Macedonia 2,061,315 July 2008 est.
148 Slovenia 2,007,711 July 2008 est.
149 Botswana 1,842,323 July 2008 est.
150 Gambia, The 1,735,464 July 2008 est.
151 Guinea-Bissau 1,503,182 July 2008 est.
152 Gaza Strip 1,500,202 July 2008 est.
153 Gabon 1,485,832 July 2008 est.
154 Estonia 1,307,605 July 2008 est.
155 Mauritius 1,274,189 July 2008 est.
156 Swaziland 1,128,814 July 2008 est.
157 Timor-Leste 1,108,777 July 2008 est.
158 Trinidad and Tobago 1,047,366 July 2008 est.
159 Fiji 931,741 July 2008 est.
160 Qatar 824,789 July 2008 est.
161 Cyprus 792,604 July 2008 est.
162 Guyana 770,794 July 2008 est.
163 Comoros 731,775 July 2008 est.
164 Bahrain 718,306 July 2008 est.
165 Bhutan 682,321 July 2008 est.
166 Montenegro 678,177 July 2008 est.
167 Equatorial Guinea 616,459 July 2008 est.
168 Solomon Islands 581,318 July 2008 est.
169 Macau 545,674 July 2008 est.
170 Djibouti 506,221 July 2008 est.
171 Luxembourg 486,006 July 2008 est.
172 Suriname 475,996 July 2008 est.
173 Cape Verde 426,998 July 2008 est.
174 Malta 403,532 July 2008 est.
175 Western Sahara 393,831 July 2008 est.
176 Maldives 385,925 July 2008 est.
177 Brunei 381,371 July 2008 est.
178 Bahamas, The 307,451 July 2008 est.
179 Iceland 304,367 July 2008 est.
180 Belize 301,270 July 2008 est.
181 French Polynesia 283,019 July 2008 est.
182 Barbados 281,968 July 2008 est.
183 Netherlands Antilles 225,369 July 2008 est.
184 New Caledonia 224,824 July 2008 est.
185 Samoa 217,083 July 2008 est.
186 Mayotte 216,306 July 2008 est.
187 Vanuatu 215,446 July 2008 est.
188 Sao Tome and Principe 206,178 July 2008 est.
189 Guam 175,877 July 2008 est.
190 Saint Lucia 159,585 July 2008 est.
191 Tonga 119,009 July 2008 est.
192 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 118,432 July 2008 est.
193 Kiribati 110,356 July 2008 est.
194 Virgin Islands 109,840 July 2008 est.
195 Micronesia, Federated States of 107,665 July 2008 est.
196 Aruba 101,541 July 2008 est.
197 Jersey 91,533 July 2008 est.
198 Grenada 90,343 July 2008 est.
199 Northern Mariana Islands 86,616 July 2008 est.
200 Antigua and Barbuda 84,522 July 2008 est.
201 Andorra 82,627 July 2008 est.
202 Seychelles 82,247 July 2008 est.
203 Isle of Man 76,220 July 2008 est.
204 Dominica 72,514 July 2008 est.
205 Bermuda 66,536 July 2008 est.
206 Guernsey 65,726 July 2008 est.
207 American Samoa 64,827 July 2008 est.
208 Marshall Islands 63,174 July 2008 est.
209 Greenland 57,564 July 2008 est.
210 Faroe Islands 48,668 July 2008 est.
211 Cayman Islands 47,862 July 2008 est.
212 Saint Kitts and Nevis 39,817 July 2008 est.
213 Liechtenstein 34,498 July 2008 est.
214 Monaco 32,796 July 2008 est.
215 San Marino 29,973 July 2008 est.
216 Saint Martin 29,376 July 2008 est.
217 Gibraltar 28,002 July 2008 est.
218 British Virgin Islands 24,041 July 2008 est.
219 Turks and Caicos Islands 22,352 July 2008 est.
220 Palau 21,093 July 2008 est.
221 Akrotiri 15,700 NA
222 Dhekelia 15,700 NA
223 Wallis and Futuna 15,237 July 2008 est.
224 Anguilla 14,108 July 2008 est.
225 Nauru 13,770 July 2008 est.
226 Cook Islands 12,271 July 2008 est.
227 Tuvalu 12,177 July 2008 est.
228 Saint Helena 7,601 July 2008 est.
229 Saint Barthelemy 7,492 July 2008 est.
230 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 7,044 July 2008 est.
231 Montserrat 5,079 July 2008 est.
232 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) 3,140 July 2008 est.
233 Svalbard 2,165 July 2008 est.
234 Norfolk Island 2,128 July 2008 est.
235 Niue 1,444 July 2008 est.
236 Tokelau 1,433 July 2008 est.
237 Christmas Island 1,402 July 2007 est.
238 Holy See (Vatican City) 824 July 2008 est.
239 Cocos (Keeling) Islands 596 July 2007 est.
240 Pitcairn Islands 48 July 2008 est.

Iceland? Qatar? Latvia? Slovenia? Kuwait? Why not Assyria?

Even Saddam Hussein recognized that they are the people who built Iraq, and yet treated terribly in their homeland even by other minorities: In Court, Saddam Criticizes Kurdish Treatment of Assyrians

 

[R_not]

While I really, really, really feel for the plight of ordinary Palestinians either in Gaza or the West Bank, there are also many parts of the world where people experience even worse condition than them except that they don’t seem to get the publicity that the Palestinians have. One might wonder whatever happen to the mass media and where are they?

If they are on assignment they stay in their hotel/motels until they feel like venturing out. Many are now depending on the contributions of others for their stories and pictures.

Investigative reporting is a thing of the past for many of the news channels.

I have seen muslims questioned and they are left to rant their obvious bias without hard questions while people like Walid Shoebat - who has first hand experience as to what is going on in Palestine is cut off continually.

video

And this is bothering since the numbers have been inflated by hamas, the behavior of hamas that has caused this war is never questioned and the behavior of hamas behavior - killing and hiding behind their own children - is not even an issue with these reporters.

war is deceit

from the hadiths (that reporters haven’t even bothered to find out about, or even the koran - and if they did they would start realizing that it is on the same order of Mein Kampf!)

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 268:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah’s Apostle called,: “War is deceit”.

---

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, “War is deceit.”

---

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, “Who is ready to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?” He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka’b) and said, “This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity.” Ka’b replied, “By Allah, you will get tired of him.” Muhammad said to him, “We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair.” Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him.

(I posted the last paragraph to show mohammed’s true character - which is the man that the muslims try to emulate - the ‘perfect man’ in their eyes)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

no where in the world one has right to kill 500 kids in the name of self defense ; can’t u see the differnce ?

 

[Valke2]

Nowhere in the world is it moral for an army of murderers to not only use children as shields, and weapons, but to engage in tactics purposely designed to draw fire down on the civilian population.

 

[R_not]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

no where in the world one has right to kill 500 kids in the name of self defense ; can’t u see the differnce ?

Then tell your fellow muslims to stop it. All they have to do is stop hiding behind children and in other countries to stop kidnapping them and forcing them into slavery and raping them - the muslims call it ‘forced marriages’.

Muslims have killed more children than any other group.

All the muslims in Gaza have to do is… pay attention… I know this one is hard especially when you support hamas… is to STOP LOBBING BOMBS INTO ISRAEL!

 

[Reuben_J]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

no where in the world one has right to kill 500 kids in the name of self defense ; can’t u see the differnce ?

You may be right but you can be wrong too because with such obvious partisan reporting it’s difficult to take the figure as Biblical truth. Obviously the number of civilian’s death is not correct account. There were sixteen, seventeen year old who were active and direct combatants. The figure of children is highly inflated. You say 500 but even the Hamas did not quote that figure.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

no where in the world one has right to kill 500 kids in the name of self defense ; can’t u see the differnce ?

No one has the right to kill innocent kids, you’re correct. But when they are collateral damage, thats different. And when they were intentionally put in harms way by Hammus, the responsibility falls on Hamas. Hummas killed those children, and the majority of people in the west can see that, which is why we take Israel’s side.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

… There were sixteen, seventeen year old who were active and direct combatants.

ok , for throwing stones , kill them all ; but at least save the chickens. I hope , they are not supporters of Hamas.

Save the Chicken If Not the Children

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1213871229207&pagename=Zone-English-Family%2FFYELayout

You say 500 but even the Hamas did not quote that figure.

it’s 400 + already. If not reached 500 yet , wait , many dead bodies are still under the rubble of civilians homes .

America’s Shame

By Paul Craig Roberts

…The Israelis can kill whomever they want whenever they want. …Take refuge in your ignorance…that the murder of Palestinians and the theft of their lands is “Israel’s right of self-defense.”

informationclearinghouse.info/article21712.htm

 

[Valke2]

Theh Palestinian Center for Human Rights says 280 children were killed.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

Theh Palestinian Center for Human Rights says 280 children were killed.

even if it’s true , the number is too little ? 280 children are murdered in 3 weeks & we put blame on the victims . Today I saw few photographs of Jewish kids murdered by Nazi soldiers & Palestine kids 'accidently ’ killed by Isaraieli soldiers. Could not find any differences between those kids .

How it’s possible that Jews forgot about the history ? When they see the dead bodies of 280 kids , ( do they or Israeli TV channels don’t show this ? ) the tragic death reminds of them of anything ?

 

[rikkk1958]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

even if it’s true , the number is too little ? 280 children are murdered in 3 weeks & we put blame on the victims . Today I saw few photographs of Jewish kids murdered by Nazi soldiers & Palestine kids 'accidently ’ killed by Isaraieli soldiers. Could not find any differences between those kids .

How it’s possible that Jews forgot about the history ? When they see the dead bodies of 280 kids , ( do they or Israeli TV channels don’t show this ? ) the tragic death reminds of them of anything ?

What do you think we should do? Grieve? How about you? What have you done lately? Did you feed the poor and hungry? Did you cloth those who had no clothes? Perhaps, you are sitting there and contemplating what to do but did not do anything? Have you contributed something or anything to the needy other than Muslims? Hypocrite!

As for me I did nothing. I do not know why. Am I a bad Christian or perhaps needed to be a Muslim to do something? However, I do pray and think of all the miseries of the world. I too felt sometimes miserable with my own problems in life. I do not know about Muhammed. In those those days, perhaps he never had problems because it seemed that he had all the fools around to serve him. Women or sex was not a problem, he had how many wives? He had people to fight for him too. Offensively or defensively? But all we know is that the Quran said that in times of war, slaughtering were justified!. Isn’t this the Islamic apologetics are talking about in defending those passages? The advantage was, there are no media to cover those massacres.

280 children and counting. It was an atrocious killing of innocent children. Were they killed intentionally? Maybe because the IDF knew that the area is heavily populated. They should have let Hamas kept shooting at them from that vantage point. IDF should not respond to those volleys of shots. They should not have attacked in the first place and just let rockets fly over their heads. That is, if they are lucky. IDF should have known better that Gaza is heavily populated and the notion of attacking was not supposed to be considered. Israel! Stop bombing! Just get out of the land and give it to the Palestinian Muslims. Surrender Jerusalem! It has at no value at all to you, because Muslims claimed that it has more value to them! Throw away your Torah! Burn them because the Quran is the most complete Book ever written. You will find the WHOLE STORY of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Esau, David, Solomon, and all the prophets of old in the Quran. We don’t need your Book, you unbelievers!

 

[Valke2]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

even if it’s true , the number is too little ? 280 children are murdered in 3 weeks & we put blame on the victims . Today I saw few photographs of Jewish kids murdered by Nazi soldiers & Palestine kids 'accidently ’ killed by Isaraieli soldiers. Could not find any differences between those kids .

How it’s possible that Jews forgot about the history ? When they see the dead bodies of 280 kids , ( do they or Israeli TV channels don’t show this ? ) the tragic death reminds of them of anything ?

280 is a lot less than 500. Does it bother you that less were killed? I don’t recall Jewish Germans firing at Nazi’s behind thier children.

 

[Valke2]

what do the palestininans think of an organization that would deliberatly engage in a war where the death of their children is inevitable?

 

[rikkk1958]

I wish MW will thank me for my last post. She should be, especially perhaps if she can convinced that all Christians should side with the Palestinians without any question. Perhaps, our reasons are invalid.

The truth of the matter is, I have posted about the Middle East and how it became the window of God’s work. But although I still have reason to believe that it still is, the damaged caused by the attacked was just inhuman in the eyes of humanity. It is therefore my belief that the losses, especially lives, were under the grace of God no matter they are Jews or Arabs. For God, there is no Arab nor Jew. They are part of His creation and His love is upon all of them. But who can question God’s Plan? I sympathized with the arabs because of their different fate. Would I sympathized with the Jews? My answer is neither because of their continued denial of the Messiah that already came in their midst, which means they are still the people who are described in the Book. The people who never learned what God had done to them until now. But I do however sympathized also because of their right to defend for their existence.

Blessed are you Christians! For you have accepted the salvation God made through the Son. For in that promise, all who would believe will be saved. But believing is something simple like a life of this sinful world, the Way however is much more difficult, because if you do not follow the Truth, your soul is doomed. For the life in this world is not the Life in the Kingdom of God. Muslim Woman, Jesus said, He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and whoever believes in Him will have life eternal. There is no way therefore you can convince a Christian here to look other way, like what you have in your life now. Good luck to your persistence of defending your faith but if I were you, a clearer message had been known to you, and all you should do is open your heart, mind and soul. Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour and be born again by the Baptism of the Church He founded.
:yup: