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savedbygrace71
Guest
Thanks for all the replies. I haven’t ever given to any of the families outside of church, and my husband wouldn’t in any case… He is less likely to look at someone and feel pity, he is more cynical. I just tend to feel guilty and sad instead. But keeping in mind the phrase that the priest is the boss and it’s his property kind of takes away the responsibility for me.
But as far as the men on the highway exits, I can’t ignore them. If I have a couple of dollars in my purse, I will give it to them. I should get some gift cards, I think that’s a good idea too. I’ve given out water bottles before too. I just have this feeling that it’s the response I should give, not turning away from them. I get the problem with drugs and alcohol, I do. I don’t have a better solution, I just can’t pretend they aren’t there.
But as far as the men on the highway exits, I can’t ignore them. If I have a couple of dollars in my purse, I will give it to them. I should get some gift cards, I think that’s a good idea too. I’ve given out water bottles before too. I just have this feeling that it’s the response I should give, not turning away from them. I get the problem with drugs and alcohol, I do. I don’t have a better solution, I just can’t pretend they aren’t there.
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Catolico65
Guest
If you ask 10 people 7 will more than likely say that those who beg really don’t need to. On the other hand, the Bible speaks of giving alms and it’s importance and never once qualifies giving to the “poor” (that I am aware of). Also, it is important to realize none of us are truly worthy to receive what God gives us.
Based on these observation I always err on the side of giving because I know it could help someone in need, pleases God and He will pay me back somehow, even if it just a couple of dollars. Paz.
Based on these observation I always err on the side of giving because I know it could help someone in need, pleases God and He will pay me back somehow, even if it just a couple of dollars. Paz.
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TimothyH
Guest
*Give alms from your possessions to all who live uprightly, and do not let your eye begrudge the gift when you make it. Do not turn your face away from any poor man, and the face of God will not be turned away from you. (Tobit 4:7)
For almsgiving delivers from death, and it will purge away every sin. Those who perform deeds of charity and of righteousness will have fulness of life; (Tobit 12:9)
Water extinguishes a blazing fire:
so almsgiving atones for sin.
(Sirach 3:30)*
Giving to the poor is as good for the giver as it is for the person who receives.
-Tim-
For almsgiving delivers from death, and it will purge away every sin. Those who perform deeds of charity and of righteousness will have fulness of life; (Tobit 12:9)
Water extinguishes a blazing fire:
so almsgiving atones for sin.
(Sirach 3:30)*
Giving to the poor is as good for the giver as it is for the person who receives.
-Tim-
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Catolico65
Guest
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Elizium23
Guest
I have always been wary of giving person-to-person to beggars. When I was on the streets I never begged for anything, perhaps I was too proud, but I knew where to go to find organizations that would support me with food and other things. Living on the streets was relatively easy once I did not have to worry too much where my next meal or shower were coming from. The hardest part was actually shelter, because the available shelters were far away, very unsanitary, and full of very unpleasant people. Living in a hotel is an extremely expensive and temporary proposition. People out begging who are not using the money for booze or drugs are often trying to raise money for a hotel, to get away from camp or the homeless shelters just for a night or two.
My financial situation is such that I can’t spare money to anyone anyway. If I gave, it would be to a qualified charity that knows how to care for the poor and homeless, such as St. Vincent de Paul. My mother volunteers in her parish’s ministry to the poor, feeding them once a week (they are open five days a week) and I think that is very kind and generous of her. This is on top of mom and dad’s contributions to numerous charities.
As parish receptionist, I am often in the position of gatekeeper to tell people that the office really can’t help them with support. I have a binder full of resources, and if people are really in need, they are open to hearing about what is available and grateful to receive a referral to someplace that is indeed capable of helping them. However we often get operators here, people who are just working us for free stuff. As a church, we are a natural soft target for professional beggars. They know that churchgoing people have a Christian mandate to give alms and they take full advantage of people’s generosity. It is my job to make sure they don’t get what they want and that they do not harrass other parishioners with their begging. If I had a nickel for every time I was told I am not a good Christian! A man came in once and said he needed gas. He could not understand why I didn’t immediately take leave of my station at the front desk and get in his car, go to the gas station with him (a complete stranger!) and buy him a full tank. I spent 15 minutes trying to charitably explain why that was outrageous and unreasonable for him to expect, and he was very irate but finally left peacefully. And it does get extremely tense when people become upset, because there have been threats of violence and arrests made on this property. Right now we have several case files posted to our internal bulletin board of men who are trespassed from our property for distressing parishioners. I am sorry if I take a dim view of beggars, but in our urban society, it is downright unsafe to give money to strangers - and sometimes even more unsafe to withhold it - and our St. Vincent de Paul society is always just a phone call away for people seeking real help.
My financial situation is such that I can’t spare money to anyone anyway. If I gave, it would be to a qualified charity that knows how to care for the poor and homeless, such as St. Vincent de Paul. My mother volunteers in her parish’s ministry to the poor, feeding them once a week (they are open five days a week) and I think that is very kind and generous of her. This is on top of mom and dad’s contributions to numerous charities.
As parish receptionist, I am often in the position of gatekeeper to tell people that the office really can’t help them with support. I have a binder full of resources, and if people are really in need, they are open to hearing about what is available and grateful to receive a referral to someplace that is indeed capable of helping them. However we often get operators here, people who are just working us for free stuff. As a church, we are a natural soft target for professional beggars. They know that churchgoing people have a Christian mandate to give alms and they take full advantage of people’s generosity. It is my job to make sure they don’t get what they want and that they do not harrass other parishioners with their begging. If I had a nickel for every time I was told I am not a good Christian! A man came in once and said he needed gas. He could not understand why I didn’t immediately take leave of my station at the front desk and get in his car, go to the gas station with him (a complete stranger!) and buy him a full tank. I spent 15 minutes trying to charitably explain why that was outrageous and unreasonable for him to expect, and he was very irate but finally left peacefully. And it does get extremely tense when people become upset, because there have been threats of violence and arrests made on this property. Right now we have several case files posted to our internal bulletin board of men who are trespassed from our property for distressing parishioners. I am sorry if I take a dim view of beggars, but in our urban society, it is downright unsafe to give money to strangers - and sometimes even more unsafe to withhold it - and our St. Vincent de Paul society is always just a phone call away for people seeking real help.
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Lochias
Guest
In a typical situation, I always give something if I have it; “what you do to the least of my brothers and sisters, you do unto me”, and all that. What they do with what I give them is then between them and God; I can’t read minds and hearts, and so I won’t take the risk of crushing someone’s hope of help. For that matter, I don’t care if they spend it on booze or whatnot; it’s hypocritical to think that the poor can never spend on something that might take their pain away even for a short time, when we do it all the time, every day, in a thousand different ways.
All that being said, in this specific instance you should listen to your priest. He’s got things set up the way he needs them to be around the church, and it is very much Christian charity to direct them to the priest who is ready and willing to help them.
All that being said, in this specific instance you should listen to your priest. He’s got things set up the way he needs them to be around the church, and it is very much Christian charity to direct them to the priest who is ready and willing to help them.
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Sarabande
Guest
I know and understand so much what you are feeling. A previous parish of mine used to always have panhandlers and we were also instructed to not give any money to them and that the pastor would handle it. It was so hard to do because you are just leaving mass and you want to help those who are less well-off than you and then you feel like a hypocrite to just walk by and ignore or to try to avoid them by walking through a different exit. It’s an awful feeling.
Yet, I know there are good reasons for these instructions. Having attended a university in a very poor area of the city, we were inundated with professional panhandlers and real, needy beggars. When you first went on campus, you’d get taken in by the charlatans and then you quickly learned which ones were really in need and which ones weren’t, either from seeing the cars that would drop them off on the street corners, to being verbally attacked and sometimes physically attacked when you couldn’t give them money or offered food instead, etc. I learned to offer food and most of those who really did need a meal were very appreciative and grateful for the food. Every once in a while you’d find someone who would immediately throw the food out once your back was turned, but that was rare.
I think your priest knows what is going on with the panhandlers around your church building and it would probably be best to listen to him. That said, if you do want to offer food, try it and see what the response is.
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Daisy101
Guest
I think giving money (and donating no longer needed items) to St. Vincent de Paul is a good way to help out others in the local community.
I also like the idea that someone somewhere had of putting together food packs with snacks and water. Even if the person is not telling the truth, at least he/she can have a snack and a bottle of water instead of money to buy booze or drugs.
I also like the idea that someone somewhere had of putting together food packs with snacks and water. Even if the person is not telling the truth, at least he/she can have a snack and a bottle of water instead of money to buy booze or drugs.
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Lochias
Guest
Personally speaking, if we’re going to help the poor, I think we should treat them like adults and give them cash. If we’re going to treat them like Jesus, let’s treat them like Jesus, not like children.
That is more or less just my opinion, though. Your opinion, and the good that you do for the poor, is not lessened by it, nor is it my intention to do so.
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Elizium23
Guest
But that all depends on how well we can differentiate the poor from the operators. In an urban setting where everyone is a stranger and everyone has a sob story, it isn’t easy by simply listening to them, to figure out if they really need help or not. It becomes much, much easier when we give them a bit of food to see their reaction to it.
Also, let’s look at the whole concept of giving and receiving gifts. Sure, it’s nice to get cash from Grandma for Christmas, but isn’t it nicer to get a homemade cake from her? Doesn’t the thought and effort count for that much more? How much more then will it mean to someone if we take him under our wing, and take the time to go to a restaurant and purchase a meal for him and talk for a little while? Needy people are generally quite grateful when they get food. The operators are hostile and mean when they get it, because food does them no good and they need cash for booze or drugs.
I often have to turn down people who are looking for fast cash and nothing else will suffice. I have heard stories about a little sick daughter who needs a prescription tonight. I have heard stories about needing to get to a job interview across town. I have heard all kinds of stories and they are all a pretext to getting cash.
If you want to give cash, it is much easier to give to charities which help the poor. This concentrates the effect of your giving, because charities which work with the poor are much better equipped to identify the poor and support them in the way they need to be. Yes, it’s different in a small town where you know everyone. It’s different when we can know and trust the beggar. But for me in an urban setting, it is downright dangerous for me to open my wallet in public and so I will continue refusing money to beggars when I don’t know how it will be used.
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Lochias
Guest
My problems with this are as follows:
- If we give, we give. What any one person does with what we give them ceases to be our responsibility once it is given.
- If there is even once chance that someone really needs that money, and won’t get it because we’re just not sure, I will still give to all who ask for it.
- It can be highly demeaning to give food to someone asking for money; it is a tacit, unspoken statement that says “I don’t trust you, so I will decide what is best for you.” That’s not our responsibility; they’re adult human beings.
- Sometimes…and this can seem counter-intuitive, I know…sometimes, those alcoholics and addicts need a fix to feel human. You can’t just go cold turkey off of something like that and feel fine in a few days; I know one man who, without pretext, asks for money for alcohol; if he goes too long without a drink, he develops flu-like symptoms from the withdrawal. He holds down a small job, and has his drinks in the evening.
Just my two cents. It is true that it can be dangerous to flash one’s wallet in some places, so in that regard, yes, judgement must be used; but I think we’re probably being a little hypocritical if we give based on what we think is better for another person without knowing anything of what they’re going through, or suffering.
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JimG
Guest
Sometimes I have had people knock on the door of the adoration chapel in the middle of the night asking for money. Our instructions are to never give money. Rather, direct them to the parish office. (Of course, the parish office is not open in the middle of the night.) One time I did give money to a man who had a story which may or may not have been credible. But I felt bad about that, and I tried never to do it again.
Because if people get the idea that they can get money by coming to the chapel at night, it might not be a good situation. There are some hours in which there is just one man or woman present in the chapel, and it wouldn’t be fair to let this become a pattern.
Because if people get the idea that they can get money by coming to the chapel at night, it might not be a good situation. There are some hours in which there is just one man or woman present in the chapel, and it wouldn’t be fair to let this become a pattern.
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thequeen
Guest
Your priest is right at our parish we are instructed to give anyone who asks for money the number to St Vincent Depaul
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savedbygrace71
Guest
I agree with everything here, completely, it’s why I gave the older man at the highway exit yesterday $5. It’s not my concern what he does with it- he is over 70 years old, it’s 35 degrees out, he’s needing money one way or another, he looked at me and I gave it to him.
I see a tangible difference between him and someone who knocks on the adoration chapel door, though. it would be upsetting to turn them away, too, but the adoration chapel isn’t a soup kitchen…that’s a sticky situation.
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Tous_Logous
Guest
I would be very cautious about giving anything to panhandlers standing outside of your church, especially when Mass is over with. Think about it…the panhandler only appears when Mass is over with, when there are waves of people leaving the church. Why don’t they actually go inside the church and ask for help? They could easily be directed to organizations that have the capability of helping them. If you plan on giving them anything, give them the addresses to organizations that could actually help and support them.
This has become a huge problem for my parish. Every time I leave Mass on Saturday or Sunday, there is always at least one woman standing outside with a son/daughter and holding a sign saying “Please help me, my family is homeless and I need money.” Yet their clothes appear to be clean and they look well-groomed, and not looking hungry. I know that this is not the case with all panhandlers, but you can guarantee that the ones standing outside your church after Mass are professional panhandlers.
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Sarabande
Guest
It’s really hard to know for sure whether or not people are truly homeless just by the state of their clothes and grooming. For several years my mother used to take my brother and I to volunteer at two homeless hospices run by the Sisters of Mercy. We’d spend the entire day working in the kitchen, setting and clearing the tables, washing dishes, and feeding the women and children who came through those doors or who were residents there. All of them, whether or not they had a place to stay at the hospice, would be able to get showered and clean clothes if they desired. The sisters who ran them were incredible. They worked diligently to help these women get off their feet, find a job, give care for the children while they looked for jobs, etc. But not all who passed through those doors had a place to stay due to the size of the home. So, they did what they could to help them either by clothing, food and even a nice shower or bath. If this was a Sunday, it could very likely be that those mothers and their children were at a hospice like the ones I volunteered at and got themselves cleaned up.
As a pre-teen and teenager, it was such an eye-opener, especially since I grew up in a very safe and comfortable environment, surrounded by farm-land and some suburban sprawl. But then when I attended college in one of the worst areas of a major city, my eyes were further opened to realize that not all the people begging on the streets were not necessarily who they said they were. Some were liars, which wasn’t such a big deal - to me. The more frightening ones were the violent ones… the ones who would begin to physically attack you, spit on you, etc. I’ve been spit on, cursed at, physically threatened. On the other end of the spectrum, I’ve been hugged, smiled at, and genuinely thanked. You learned which was which, since most were regulars, but I definitely learned that you could never go by just clothing and grooming habits.
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lightbeamrider
Guest
Is giving them money really helping them? Especially men who are younger? Am i the only one who is repulsed when i see thirty something men begging for money with their sob stories? No, as a rule i do not give people money for nothing, in part because i suffer from compassion fatigue. Most of the time people are dirt poor for a reason and giving them money is about as useful as burning it. Why not give the money to the liquor store, the drug pusher, the strip joint or the casino because nine times out of ten that is going to be where it ends up anyway.
To be a man is to not beg for money from strangers. It is to work. To be productive and in my neck of the woods there is jobs.
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Elizium23
Guest
It is also not difficult, in large urban areas where you will typically see the most beggars, to find food and other basic necessities provided in generous quantities by charities which work with people on the streets. I never missed a meal while I was homeless. In fact I gained weight. It was hard at first, but once you talked to a few people, you found out the “beaten path” that you had to take each day to find a hot meal for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, or the service window where you could pick up a brown bag full of non-perishables plus a loaf of bread. There were also showers and fresh clothes available. I never once had to look like a grubby neglected street person and I never, ever had to beg people for money to meet my daily needs. Beggars know this. The reason beggars beg for money is because cash buys the things which are not provided by charities in generous quantities: cigarettes, drugs, booze, hotels, prostitutes.
The downtown area of my home town has a large population of homeless people, yet this city has zero homeless shelters in it. The city council won’t let them in. I don’t know the status of soup kitchens, but years ago when I was homeless, they were not permitted either. Downtown there is a network of red “parking meters” deployed. These “meters” accept spare change and promise to redistribute it to charities which work with the homeless and runaways that need the most help. This is the city’s response to an epidemic of street beggars. Also on the street is a large bronze roadrunner sculpture. What many people don’t know is that it is a huge piggy bank. It has an open slot in the top where you can donate spare change and, once again, this money is distributed to charities that help the homeless. I knew a runaway who took the name “Roadrunner” because she was known to beg right there. It was kind of ironic. There are also people on the streets who busk or sell things like woven palm fronds for money. Going downtown here is like running the gauntlet of people asking for your spare change in various ways and methods. But they are only there because they know people have it. The people downtown are the tourist crowd, the nightclub/bar crowd, the people with disposable income who are pretty likely to finally give in and give up some money when a beggar asks.
Begging is an industry with significant revenue streams and no tax liability. It is the icing on the cake, when all your basic needs are already met by charities, to beg so that you have disposable income to spend on “luxuries”. So that is why I feel it is never productive to give money to people who ask for it. Anyone in these United States can have their basic needs met just by knowing where to look. Cash is never necessary to survive. I myself lived for years with no cash in my pocket, and I am a fairly lazy guy. If you have spare change, why not give it to St. Vincent de Paul, or the Salvation Army, where they can really do some good with it?
The downtown area of my home town has a large population of homeless people, yet this city has zero homeless shelters in it. The city council won’t let them in. I don’t know the status of soup kitchens, but years ago when I was homeless, they were not permitted either. Downtown there is a network of red “parking meters” deployed. These “meters” accept spare change and promise to redistribute it to charities which work with the homeless and runaways that need the most help. This is the city’s response to an epidemic of street beggars. Also on the street is a large bronze roadrunner sculpture. What many people don’t know is that it is a huge piggy bank. It has an open slot in the top where you can donate spare change and, once again, this money is distributed to charities that help the homeless. I knew a runaway who took the name “Roadrunner” because she was known to beg right there. It was kind of ironic. There are also people on the streets who busk or sell things like woven palm fronds for money. Going downtown here is like running the gauntlet of people asking for your spare change in various ways and methods. But they are only there because they know people have it. The people downtown are the tourist crowd, the nightclub/bar crowd, the people with disposable income who are pretty likely to finally give in and give up some money when a beggar asks.
Begging is an industry with significant revenue streams and no tax liability. It is the icing on the cake, when all your basic needs are already met by charities, to beg so that you have disposable income to spend on “luxuries”. So that is why I feel it is never productive to give money to people who ask for it. Anyone in these United States can have their basic needs met just by knowing where to look. Cash is never necessary to survive. I myself lived for years with no cash in my pocket, and I am a fairly lazy guy. If you have spare change, why not give it to St. Vincent de Paul, or the Salvation Army, where they can really do some good with it?
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TypesAndShadows
Guest
My issue with this is that my nearest city also has a large homeless population, and a serious housing shortage. The homeless charities all say that we should give to the charity, not the beggar, which I understand. However, all the shelters charge for the night, even at the most basic level, and the basic levels do not allow booking a shelter for the next night, and they have limited beds so not everyone who shows up with money gets in.
This means that if it’s 6pm, and it’s cold and wet, and a homeless beggar asks me for 40p to make up the £2.50 they need for the shelter when the doors open tonight, and I give the charity £20 instead of giving the beggar 40p, that beggar still sleeps rough in the cold and wet, and gets moved on by the police overnight. They might not ever get to sleep in the shelter from that £20, even next week.
And I do understand the rational for charging a small amount for these things, and earning privileges. But what exactly are the homeless supposed to do? They can’t all sell the Big Issue, which doesn’t exactly bring in a lot anyway, and even that requires them to have found some money to buy the magazines to sell. If they aren’t begging spare change, how are they supposed to get started?
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