Panhandlers and indifference

[Novena7]

There are numerous panhandler’s in our city and many of them suffer from alcoholism. If they come up to me to ask for some money I usually give them a dollar or more and talk to them a bit about considering going clean. If they are next to a fast food place begging, I go inside and buy them a sandwich and beverage instead of giving money.
Last week I gave a very young woman who was obviously drunk, standing outside a supermarket, some dollar bill’s and then she asked if her boyfriend and herself could get in my car for a long drive to another town. I told them no, as the car was full of grocery’s.
She then threatened me with bodily harm by saying she was going to smash my face in for refusing to give them a ride, among other threatening word’s. I felt a bit anxious then and just said: “God Bless you”, and walked a few step’s to my car and quickly got in and locked the door’s. Perhaps I should have called the police because of the threat of bodily harm. but I just wanted out of there fast.
That is my only bad experience I have ever had with a panhandler.

 

[mek42]

Thank you for all the replies. They have been very thought provoking. Especially re attachment to wealth. That perhaps more spiritual damage is done by wealth attachment than by uncharitableness when one says no to one who asks.

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

How do you say no to panhandlers without hardening your heart?
I’ve been thinking about about asking this for a while, and was inspired to do it now after reading “fast from indifference”.

Thanks for starting this thread and for still paying attention. It’s too bad that interest seems to have died out. I did have one final thought that I have been hoping for the opportunity to post.

Did I relate this story? My dad was an atheist. But I noticed that, when he saw a beggar on the sidewalk, he would park his car, get out, and place a dollar into the beggar’s cup that had some pencils for sale. This was in the 1950’s when a pencil actually cost one cent. Since my dad wasn’t religious, he was giving out of pure compassion.

But when I give, I have entirely selfish motives, and I don’t really care if my giving is actually beneficial to the drug addicts and winos who receive the donation. I do it in compliance with my Teacher’s directives as a way of increasing my faith.

"And so I tell you this: use money, tainted as it is, to win you friends, and thus make sure that when it fails you, they will welcome you into the tents of eternity."

 

[Tim_D]

But when I give, I have entirely selfish motives, and I don’t really care if my giving is actually beneficial to the drug addicts and winos who receive the donation.

This is charity?!?!? This is love of neighbor as oneself?!?!?

When Christ cured the afflicted He did it out His infinite love for them. I do not remember reading that He really didn’t care if His actions relieved their suffering, only that His work increased people’s faith.

 

[mikekle]

This is charity?!?!? This is love of neighbor as oneself?!?!?

When Christ cured the afflicted He did it out His infinite love for them. I do not remember reading that He really didn’t care if His actions relieved their suffering, only that His work increased people’s faith.

Our senior parish priest does the same thing, there are groups of homeless people waiting for him to finish saying mass sometimes, as he gives out cash to these people, some of them are probably using the money for drugs or booze, but when confronted about this by some parishioners, he claims he is giving because they are asking and they are in need, its on them to decide how they use the money.

Although he doesnt give much ($20-50), this has been a big controversy at my church, some agree, some do not.

If they are hungry enough, they WILL buy food instead of dope, if they are cold enough they WILL buy something to keep them warm.

I give money when asked (when Im able to at least).

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here’s a good article on panhandlers.

How – Not Whether – to Help a Panhandler

huffingtonpost.com/amy-l-freeman/hownot-whetherto-help-a-p_b_3639348.html

Jim

 

[Tim_D]

Although he doesnt give much ($20-50), this has been a big controversy at my church, some agree, some do not.

Indeed. Giving money to someone so that they can further sink into drunkeness or drug abuse is not charity.

I wonder how father would feel if he found out that someone died from a drug overdose bought with the money he provided. Does he not share responsibility for that person’s death?

 

[Wesrock]

Discernment in giving is okay, but the RCIA director at my former parish shrugged and advised to give when you can, and pray it’s spent well.

 

[Tim_D]

Discernment in giving is okay, but the RCIA director at my former parish shrugged and advised to give when you can, and pray it’s spent well.

That’s a rather nonchalant attitude from one who is supposed to be instructing people in the faith.

I can assure you that the Franciscans employ discernment in their dealing with the poor on a regular basis. At the risk of repeating myself, giving money to be spent on drug and alcohol abuse is not charity. I cannot imagine how a person thinks it ok to help someone continue in their addiction.

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Here’s a good article on panhandlers.
How – Not Whether – to Help a Panhandler
huffingtonpost.com/amy-l-freeman/hownot-whetherto-help-a-p_b_3639348.html
Jim

**The Huffington Post’s advice is superior to that of our Sacred Teacher? I don’t think so. I am hearing all this noise about how we shouldn’t give any money to those whom we think might spend it on drugs or alcohol.
Well, we give money to our government, and that government turns around and spends our money on the most evil inventions imaginable: a nuclear weapon and a ICBM capable of sending that horrible bomb upon our Christian brothers and sisters on the other side of the world. But, despite this evil, we still have to follow our Lord’s instruction to pay our taxes.

To say that someone is not deserving of our giving requires a judgment of that person. We have been warned against this practice.
There is absolutely no statement in our Holy Gospels that indicates that we must refrain from giving if we feel that our money will not be used wisely.

I have been criticized that I take our Lord’s instructions “too literally,” and that, if followed, we would all be walking around missing an eye or a hand. But in the same teaching, our Lord instructs us to give to everyone who asks. So how much easier is that? To give away a little money rather than to tear out an eye? **

Do not judge, and you will not be judged yourselves; do not condemn, and you will not be condemned yourselves; grant pardon, and you will be pardoned. Give, and there will be gifts for you…

 

[Tim_D]

To say that someone is not deserving of our giving requires a judgment of that person.

How do you feel about sitting on a jury in a court of law? Is that not “judging” someone? Is it better to let criminals run rampant rather than administer Justice since Jesus Himself said “judge not, lest ye be judged?”

 

[Rosebud77]

Our senior parish priest does the same thing, there are groups of homeless people waiting for him to finish saying mass sometimes, as he gives out cash to these people, some of them are probably using the money for drugs or booze, but when confronted about this by some parishioners, he claims he is giving because they are asking and they are in need, its on them to decide how they use the money.

Although he doesnt give much ($20-50), this has been a big controversy at my church, some agree, some do not.

**If they are hungry enough, they WILL buy food instead of dope, if they are cold enough they WILL buy something to keep them warm.
**
I give money when asked (when Im able to at least).

Sadly that is not true. An addict has only one thing on his or her mind and that is the next fix. Period. I have family who work with street folk and addicts and the rule is NEVER GIVE MONEY as they will use it to harm and kill themselves. Give food, clothing but never cash. That is an integral part of our real and realistic caring for them and actually takes more time and thought from us. We are bidden to love, Helping to destroy is not love. We give all we have.

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

How do you feel about sitting on a jury in a court of law? Is that not “judging” someone? Is it better to let criminals run rampant rather than administer Justice since Jesus Himself said “judge not, lest ye be judged?”

I have to admit that I have never served on a jury. As for letting “criminals run rampant,” you will have to ask Jesus Himself about that. The “not judging” thing is His idea, not mine.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

jeffrey erwin

The Huffington Post’s advice is superior to that of our Sacred Teacher?

Translation, Jeffery didn’t read the article.

I am hearing all this noise about how we shouldn’t give any money to those whom we think might spend it on drugs or alcohol.

Its not noise but the reality of addiction.

Take a course with Alanon or some other addiction program and they’ll warn you about abling the alcoholic. My mother did this for my brother and it only help him go down until he crashed and burned in prison,

Well, we give money to our government, and that government turns around and spends our money on the most evil inventions imaginable: a nuclear weapon and a ICBM capable of sending that horrible bomb upon our Christian brothers and sisters on the other side of the world. But, despite this evil, we still have to follow our Lord’s instruction to pay our taxes.

We don’t give our money to the government, they take it, its not free will charity.

To say that someone is not deserving of our giving requires a judgment of that person. We have been warned against this practice.

Alcoholics and drug addicts generally will not seek help until they hit rock bottom.

Our abling, merely helps prevent them from getting to rock bottom and they continue their bad behavior.

There is absolutely no statement in our Holy Gospels that indicates that we must refrain from giving if we feel that our money will not be used wisely.

All the Gospels say is, give to the poor. This we do through Catholic Charities, food pantries etc. These things did not exist during Jesus time.

Do yourself a favor, go and actually read the article.

And stop judging those of us here who have experience dealing with alcoholics and drug addicts

Jim

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

jeffrey erwin
Translation, Jeffery didn’t read the article.

Take a course with Alanon or some other addiction program and they’ll warn you about abling the alcoholic. My mother did this for my brother and it only help him go down until he crashed and burned in prison,

We don’t give our money to the government, they take it, its not free will charity.
Alcoholics and drug addicts generally will not seek help until they hit rock bottom.
Our abling, merely helps prevent them from getting to rock bottom and they continue their bad behavior.

All the Gospels say is, give to the poor. This we do through Catholic Charities, food pantries etc. These things did not exist during Jesus time.

Do yourself a favor, go and actually read the article.

And stop judging those of us here who have experience dealing with alcoholics and drug addicts
Jim

**It is very unfair to assume that I did not read the Huff/Post article. You accuse me of this twice. Absolutely unfair.

BTW, our Lord specifically said “Give to anyone who asks, and if anyone wants to borrow, do not turn away.” He does this more than once.
Another thing, you have no right to assume that I have never had any relationships with drug-dependent people. I lived in Baltimore for nine years. I know them well.

Furthermore, I am not “judging” you. I never said that you were bad. All that I have done is to stick up for our Lord’s teachings.**

 

[Bonnie]

All that I have done is to stick up for our Lord’s teachings.

You mean, for your interpretation

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

jeffrey erwin;13708651:

All that I have done is to stick up for our Lord’s teachings.

You mean, for your interpretation

of His teachings. Giving money for alcohol or drugs isn’t helping. One has to judge - too many in our area who are asking for gas money are lying. I know this because I keep seeing the same people with the same signs. They probably “earn” more money than I do.

**Hi Bonnie:
I honestly don’t see much to “interpret.” Our Holy Gospels are clear and direct on this subject and speak for themselves. I shouldn’t have to quote the passages again.
You say that “one has to judge,” but our Lord teaches us not to do that.
With all due respect, the “interpretations” are made by those who have issues with compliance with our Teacher’s plain instructions.

I mentioned that disgusting little book that I used to see in my church’s library: THE DIFFICULT SAYINGS OF JESUS. It pretty much says what everyone else is saying here.
I’m glad that it’s gone, and I hope that it never comes back.

Last thought (for now): I spent five years homeless, eating out of trash cans, and sleeping where ever. I never felt closer to my Maker than I did then.
We should consider the possibility that some of these lying, homeless winos and addicts might actually be closer to our Creator than are we.**

**“And so I tell you this: use money, tainted as it is, to win you friends, and thus make sure that when it fails you, they will welcome you into the Tents of Eternity.”

**

 

[Rosebud77]

Bonnie;13708726:

jeffrey erwin;13708651:

All that I have done is to stick up for our Lord’s teachings.

**Hi Bonnie:
I honestly don’t see much to “interpret.” Our Holy Gospels are clear and direct on this subject and speak for themselves. I shouldn’t have to quote the passages again.
You say that “one has to judge,” but our Lord teaches us not to do that.
With all due respect, the “interpretations” are made by those who have issues with compliance with our Teacher’s plain instructions.

I mentioned that disgusting little book that I used to see in my church’s library: THE DIFFICULT SAYINGS OF JESUS. It pretty much says what everyone else is saying here.
I’m glad that it’s gone, and I hope that it never comes back.

Last thought (for now): I spent five years homeless, eating out of trash cans, and sleeping where ever. I never felt closer to my Maker than I did then.
We should consider the possibility that some of these lying, homeless winos and addicts might actually be closer to our Creator than are we.**

**“And so I tell you this: use money, tainted as it is, to win you friends, and thus make sure that when it fails you, they will welcome you into the Tents of Eternity.”

**

This is worrying. It really is. You may as well give a drug addict a loaded gun as money. Giving food IS giving. It is giving sustenance and love. Jesus does not specify money as the gift does He? He says GIVE to all who ask; does not say give money. “Who among you would give your son an asp when he asks for bread.” is a better instruction. Give life not poison. Bread not stone. Giving an addict the means to poison himself further is like giving him a loaded gun. Can you really not see the difference here?

 

[Rosebud77]

jeffrey erwin;13708651:

All that I have done is to stick up for our Lord’s teachings.

You mean, for your interpretation

of His teachings. Giving money for alcohol or drugs isn’t helping. One has to judge - too many in our area who are asking for gas money are lying. I know this because I keep seeing the same people with the same signs. They probably “earn” more money than I do.

Using the word “judge” is unfortunate! I fully understand what you mean. But it can be seen as " judging" in the wrong way. Your second sentence is of course a huge understatement! Loaded gun time really… Would anyone give a diabetic candy if they demanded it? Jesus says GIVE but He does not specify what we should give. Wise as serpents time.

 

[ccmcmg]

I invite each and every one of us in this thread, posting or reading, to look at our intentions, and make sure we’re not just trying to excuse our own selfishness, or to turn a blind eye to the needy.

No need to reply publicly. Let’s be honest at least within ourselves.