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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
No, i did understand the joke. I just think that there is a reality behind it. Our Lord sent a message.
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Micosil
Guest
A literal reading of Scripture is fine, but it isn’t the only way. I know in the Episcopalian tradition it may not be the case, but in Catholicism we recognize the four senses of Scripture. According to the Catechism,
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Secret_Square
Guest
OK, I know this is an old thread but I have to share this…
I’ve noted before on other posts that the city I live in has had a chronic problem with panhandlers. It subsided for a while but now seems to be getting worse again. I’ve been hit up 3 times in the last 3 days – twice by the same person – and each time I told them “I don’t have any cash on me, sorry.” Which is true; in fact, it’s WHY I don’t carry cash most of the time these days.
I know we should be compassionate toward people in need, and we should have respect for all people including the homeless, addicts, mentally ill, etc. However, when chronic panhandling and/or homelessness becomes a public nuisance, it begins to cause harm to others – for example, business owners in neighborhoods that are constantly plagued by panhandlers start to lose customers and in extreme cases, are forced to close. Aggressive panhandlers also make neighborhoods feel less safe, so people move out or avoid the area, storefronts close, the neighborhood goes downhill, etc.
Also, if chronically homeless people congregate in a particular area all the time, and begin to leave trash and various forms of waste behind, this is not fair to other residents – including poor or working class people who have just as much right to enjoy clean and safe public spaces (e.g. libraries, parks, public squares, public transportation) as anyone else.
Anyway, the strangest encounter yet happened today. I went to church for my pre-Easter confession, and arrived early, in order to be first in line. A 30-ish white man in a camo sweatshirt, khakis and ball cap (all clean and neat looking) entered, walked up the aisle, came back and then walked up to me. He said “Ma’am, I have to be at work in a hour, and I don’t have much time…” I thought he was in a hurry to go to confession so I said, “That’s OK, you can go ahead of me.” Then he said, no, he was trying to get to the local soup kitchen but he was always at work when they were open and he was hungry. I said, “Isn’t the soup kitchen open right now?” To which he replied, “I’m not asking for any money, I just need a meal.” At this point, I had no idea what to tell him, because I did not have any cash on me and I wasn’t sure whether the soup kitchen was open or not. So I said, “I really don’t know what to tell you, but the priest should be here in a few minutes, maybe he would know more than I do about where to get help?” To which he said, “I don’t have time for this” and walked out.
I felt so badly about how I’d responded to the man that I told the priest in confession about it (among my other sins) and about my other struggles with how to respond appropriately to the local panhandlers. However, the priest didn’t say anything about that, he just gave me my penance and absolution – he probably didn’t want to dilly-dally knowing there would be more people waiting in line (and there were).
I have since checked the website of the local soup kitchen and they ARE open on Saturday afternoons until 5 p.m., so he should have been able to get a meal there if he needed one. So what was he up to? His story didn’t seem to make sense either. But he said he didn’t want money so was he really in need, or not? I’ve tried carrying around fast-food gift cards before but the funny thing was, when I did, no one ever approached me for months and I ended up using them myself… but I never have them when I get hit up. Oh well…
I’ve noted before on other posts that the city I live in has had a chronic problem with panhandlers. It subsided for a while but now seems to be getting worse again. I’ve been hit up 3 times in the last 3 days – twice by the same person – and each time I told them “I don’t have any cash on me, sorry.” Which is true; in fact, it’s WHY I don’t carry cash most of the time these days.
I know we should be compassionate toward people in need, and we should have respect for all people including the homeless, addicts, mentally ill, etc. However, when chronic panhandling and/or homelessness becomes a public nuisance, it begins to cause harm to others – for example, business owners in neighborhoods that are constantly plagued by panhandlers start to lose customers and in extreme cases, are forced to close. Aggressive panhandlers also make neighborhoods feel less safe, so people move out or avoid the area, storefronts close, the neighborhood goes downhill, etc.
Also, if chronically homeless people congregate in a particular area all the time, and begin to leave trash and various forms of waste behind, this is not fair to other residents – including poor or working class people who have just as much right to enjoy clean and safe public spaces (e.g. libraries, parks, public squares, public transportation) as anyone else.
Anyway, the strangest encounter yet happened today. I went to church for my pre-Easter confession, and arrived early, in order to be first in line. A 30-ish white man in a camo sweatshirt, khakis and ball cap (all clean and neat looking) entered, walked up the aisle, came back and then walked up to me. He said “Ma’am, I have to be at work in a hour, and I don’t have much time…” I thought he was in a hurry to go to confession so I said, “That’s OK, you can go ahead of me.” Then he said, no, he was trying to get to the local soup kitchen but he was always at work when they were open and he was hungry. I said, “Isn’t the soup kitchen open right now?” To which he replied, “I’m not asking for any money, I just need a meal.” At this point, I had no idea what to tell him, because I did not have any cash on me and I wasn’t sure whether the soup kitchen was open or not. So I said, “I really don’t know what to tell you, but the priest should be here in a few minutes, maybe he would know more than I do about where to get help?” To which he said, “I don’t have time for this” and walked out.
I felt so badly about how I’d responded to the man that I told the priest in confession about it (among my other sins) and about my other struggles with how to respond appropriately to the local panhandlers. However, the priest didn’t say anything about that, he just gave me my penance and absolution – he probably didn’t want to dilly-dally knowing there would be more people waiting in line (and there were).
I have since checked the website of the local soup kitchen and they ARE open on Saturday afternoons until 5 p.m., so he should have been able to get a meal there if he needed one. So what was he up to? His story didn’t seem to make sense either. But he said he didn’t want money so was he really in need, or not? I’ve tried carrying around fast-food gift cards before but the funny thing was, when I did, no one ever approached me for months and I ended up using them myself… but I never have them when I get hit up. Oh well…
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Secret_Square
Guest
I should add that there have been instances in the past of panhandlers in our town claiming to have been “banned” from the soup kitchen when people try to direct them there in lieu of giving them money. However, the director of the soup kitchen (which is run by Catholic Charities) has stated in the local paper that this is false—they never “ban” anyone permanently, but may ask someone to leave if they are being disruptive or threatening toward other guests or staff. So I’m already aware that more often than not, people who beg for money claiming they don’t have access to the soup kitchen are lying.
The sad thing is, all the con artists whose neediness is just an “act” or a ruse to get money for booze or drugs, make it that much harder for people who really ARE in need or in a one-time emergency situation (e.g., being stranded in a strange town due to car trouble or running out of gas) to get help. If panhandling was a rare thing, and people did not get hit up every day or every few days, hear the same stories over and over again and find out they were all lies, most people probably wouldn’t hesitate to give – I know I wouldn’t.
The sad thing is, all the con artists whose neediness is just an “act” or a ruse to get money for booze or drugs, make it that much harder for people who really ARE in need or in a one-time emergency situation (e.g., being stranded in a strange town due to car trouble or running out of gas) to get help. If panhandling was a rare thing, and people did not get hit up every day or every few days, hear the same stories over and over again and find out they were all lies, most people probably wouldn’t hesitate to give – I know I wouldn’t.
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
**One of St. Francis’s friars, a certain brother Juniper, was known to be fanatical about giving whatever he could to the poor. Since he didn’t have money, he would give away his habit, his friar clothes.
His brothers at the friary finally got tired of always having to replace brother Juniper’s clothes, and they ordered him, under obedience, not to give these away anymore.
But one day when Juniper was out walking, he met a poor stranger and informed him that he couldn’t give away his clothes but that he would certainly not resist if that man should take them by force.
And that is of course what happened.
I offer this idea: many of these poor derelicts and bums might actually be closer to our Creator than our we. Although they look (and sometimes smell) disgusting, remember that our Maker sees differently than do we.
My advice is to strictly follow our Teacher’s admonition to “not judge” and to “give to everyone who asks.”
That hasn’t been a popular idea on this forum as you will see if you read the posts. But I think that it is the correct one. **
**And so I tell you this: use money, tainted as it is, to win you friends, and thus make sure that when it fails you, they will welcome you into the tents of Eternity. **
His brothers at the friary finally got tired of always having to replace brother Juniper’s clothes, and they ordered him, under obedience, not to give these away anymore.
But one day when Juniper was out walking, he met a poor stranger and informed him that he couldn’t give away his clothes but that he would certainly not resist if that man should take them by force.
And that is of course what happened.
I offer this idea: many of these poor derelicts and bums might actually be closer to our Creator than our we. Although they look (and sometimes smell) disgusting, remember that our Maker sees differently than do we.
My advice is to strictly follow our Teacher’s admonition to “not judge” and to “give to everyone who asks.”
That hasn’t been a popular idea on this forum as you will see if you read the posts. But I think that it is the correct one. **
**And so I tell you this: use money, tainted as it is, to win you friends, and thus make sure that when it fails you, they will welcome you into the tents of Eternity. **
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Secret_Square
Guest
"*His brothers at the friary finally got tired of always having to replace brother Juniper’s clothes, and they ordered him, under obedience, not to give these away anymore.
“But one day when Juniper was out walking, he met a poor stranger and informed him that he couldn’t give away his clothes but that he would certainly not resist if that man should take them by force. And that is of course what happened*.”
Well, it’s one thing for a friar already under vows of poverty to do that; it would be quite another thing for me, a middle-aged married woman with a disabled daughter AND husband depending on me, to do that. I should add that I too have been “ordered… under obedience” to my spouse (who is self-employed but still dependent almost entirely on my income) not to give any money away to the panhandlers.
“But one day when Juniper was out walking, he met a poor stranger and informed him that he couldn’t give away his clothes but that he would certainly not resist if that man should take them by force. And that is of course what happened*.”
Well, it’s one thing for a friar already under vows of poverty to do that; it would be quite another thing for me, a middle-aged married woman with a disabled daughter AND husband depending on me, to do that. I should add that I too have been “ordered… under obedience” to my spouse (who is self-employed but still dependent almost entirely on my income) not to give any money away to the panhandlers.
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Bonnie
Guest
Mr. Erwin is a bit unbalanced on this topic. You handled the situation well. Your first responsibility is to your family.
Slightly off topic, but I’ve used “I need to check with my husband” to get out of uncomfortable situations. One salesman got a bit huffy & said, Why do you have to ask him? That was my cue to leave.
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jeffrey_erwin
Guest
**I certainly cannot deny being “unbalanced.” But I do remember that criticism being leveled at a certain Jewish man of ancient times, so I don’t worry about it much. **
Mr. Erwin is a bit unbalanced on this topic. You handled the situation well. Your first responsibility is to your family.
**And everyone who has left houses, brothers, sisters, father, mother, children or land for the sake of My Name will be repaid a hundred times over, and also inherit eternal life.
But you, you must not set your hearts on things to eat and drink; nor must you worry.
It is the pagans of this world who set their hearts on all these things. Your Father well knows you need them.
No; set your hearts on His Kingdom, and these other things will be given you as well.**
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Secret_Square
Guest
I’d say this is another example of an issue where St. Paul’s Romans 14 approach (regarding Christians who ate leftover meat from pagan temples vs. those who didn’t) should apply: people who give should not judge or scandalize those who don’t, and vice versa.
If you, personally, believe Jesus wants you to always give cash to every panhandler, no questions asked, fine – but don’t assume that people who don’t are therefore bad or hypocritical Christians. Likewise, if you think giving cash does more harm than good and prefer to give non-cash items only (food, clothing, gift cards) or to support professional, full-time ministries to the homeless, that’s OK too, but don’t blindly assume that those who choose to give directly are simply stupid or suckers. Finally, neither side should judge those whose means are limited and must therefore place first priority on feeding and clothing their own families or paying off justly owed debts.
If you, personally, believe Jesus wants you to always give cash to every panhandler, no questions asked, fine – but don’t assume that people who don’t are therefore bad or hypocritical Christians. Likewise, if you think giving cash does more harm than good and prefer to give non-cash items only (food, clothing, gift cards) or to support professional, full-time ministries to the homeless, that’s OK too, but don’t blindly assume that those who choose to give directly are simply stupid or suckers. Finally, neither side should judge those whose means are limited and must therefore place first priority on feeding and clothing their own families or paying off justly owed debts.
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PolarGuy
Guest
Just as it is wrong to assume that those who don’t give $ are hypocritical or bad Christians, so too is it wrong to assume that beggars are always innocent. Some of these folks - perhaps the majority - are in fact drug abusers, or worse. When some beggars decide to defecate on the sidewalk in front of a store you’ve broken your back to own and upkeep, you might have a very different view of these folks (to say nothing of, say, them actually assaulting you when you pull your wallet out).
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mikekle
Guest
I had an incident the other day at work, I was reseting one of my stores beef jerky section, and had a large bag of perfectly good beef jerky that was being discontinued, normally I take this with me and either give it to friends or family, we are instructed to take it off company property and ‘destroy’ it, but I saw this guy standing out front when I got there, I could tell he was homeless and saw him come in for a coke when he had received enough change from panhandling, he was actually a dime short, but the cashier let it slide.
When I was finished, I was walking to my car and decided to give this guy the bag of beef jerky, he was thrilled and took it, I told him not to tell the employees inside or bring any of it back in the store.
As I was pulling out, I saw him taking a few bags back in the store, the manager later told me, he was trying to ‘return’ them for money, (each bag sold for $9.), he claimed he had bought them earlier in the day, but the manager was smart enough to recognize it was from the stuff I was working with, she turned him away, I thought the guy would be wanting to eat the jerky! I can only assume he continued trying to sell it for money.
I know if I was homeless, I would be saving food like that and eat it, but I guess from now on, I will go back to just giving out cash. I usually give about $3.-5. bucks if I have it at the time.
When I was finished, I was walking to my car and decided to give this guy the bag of beef jerky, he was thrilled and took it, I told him not to tell the employees inside or bring any of it back in the store.
As I was pulling out, I saw him taking a few bags back in the store, the manager later told me, he was trying to ‘return’ them for money, (each bag sold for $9.), he claimed he had bought them earlier in the day, but the manager was smart enough to recognize it was from the stuff I was working with, she turned him away, I thought the guy would be wanting to eat the jerky! I can only assume he continued trying to sell it for money.
I know if I was homeless, I would be saving food like that and eat it, but I guess from now on, I will go back to just giving out cash. I usually give about $3.-5. bucks if I have it at the time.
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