Panicking again and under pressure... should I settle in marriage?

[EasterJoy]

Yes!

I was actually looking for pictures of Marilyn Monroe when thinking about this thread and she didn’t even look like Marilyn Monroe when she had brown hair, wasn’t wearing makeup, etc.

What amazed her friends was how much of her attractiveness was in a charisma that she could (and did) consciously turn on and off.

Most of us do this, but not consciously. I am sure you can think of many brides who were stunning on their wedding days, even though they did not seem nearly so amazing “in real life.”

More to the point, every person going into marriage has to realize that circumstances will come that make their spouse physically and even personally unattractive. We all have our bad days. It is very important that our spouse’s affection not rise and fall accordingly.

This snippet from Shakespeare’s Henry V is as true for men as for women, too:

What! a speaker is but a prater; a rhyme is but a ballad. A good leg will fall; a straight back will stoop; a black beard will turn white; a curled pate will grow bald; a fair face will wither; a full eye will wax hollow: but a good heart, Kate, is the sun and the moon; or, rather, the sun, and not the moon; for it shines bright and never changes, but keeps his course truly.

You cannot know how another heart shines true with yours until you get to know each other. After that, to be true requires decision, because self-interested inclination is not constant enough to endure over the years and the temptations.

 

[CaliLobo]

“Gorgeous to them” is the key. It would be sad if you married someone because she was gorgeous to other people, but not to you.

Yes. Gorgeous to me, that’s part of what I’m looking for.

Xantippe:

Really? I don’t run into that in normal life.

I think people do lift eyebrows hard, though, when a guy is demanding something from women that he isn’t able to offer himself and isn’t willing to exert the same amount of effort for himself that he wants from her. If he isn’t super athletic, but wants a girlfriend with the sort of figure you get from living at the gym, if he has no self-control around food, but wants a thin girlfriend, etc. That makes people point and laugh.

When the right one comes along, you won’t even think about “better women.”

I was actually looking for pictures of Marilyn Monroe when thinking about this thread and she didn’t even look like Marilyn Monroe when she had brown hair, wasn’t wearing makeup, etc.

It’s usually the not-as-pretty women who are preaching their overscrupulous version of modesty in Evangelical churches, commenting on how other women dress, and making people feel guilty for wanting a partner that is beautiful. Beauty is in the inside and you shouldn’t care what she looks like, they preach. Of course they preach that believe it’s self-serving.

I saw the pic you sent me. Marilyn Monroe is pretty without makeup, and no matter what hair color she is. And the fact that she had a great personality makes her even better. That should prove to you guys that I am not looking for a particular, definite, superficial picture of what “beauty” is. Believe it or not, swimsuit models don’t do it for me, simply because I don’t know what personalities accompany them.

EasterJoy:

Perhaps the OP only means women he finds exciting merely by looking at them, and thinks he’ll find someone who immediately makes him feel as if he were a groom the first time he lays eyes on her. Some people are naive, and do not realize that most people become a lot “better-looking” after you get to know them and appreciate them than they looked when they were total strangers.

This is even true of actors and actresses. Some became much “better-looking” with the help of an introduction to the public that a movie or TV role gave them. Others seemed like “dreams” when they were models, but seemed wooden and uninteresting when they were presented as actors and actresses on-screen. Maybe in person, they seem warm and wonderful, but putting them on the spot to act makes them less attractive.

I have heard that Marilyn Monroe could go out in public and not even be recognized, if she chose to dress and act in unremarkable ways. If she chose to “turn it on” and “be Her,” then all of a sudden her fans would recognize her.

If you think about it, you know that you also know people who “light up” around those who make them feel safe and socially engaged, whereas they might even seem forbidding around strangers when they don’t have their personal “it” turned on. You really have to get to know people before you can tell if you’re going to find them attractive in an enduring way. A naive person does not know this, and thinks that an “attractive” man or woman will be just as attractive under all circumstances. It does not work like that.

Great point, and thank you. People’s personalities can make them more or less attractive.

It’s just that, I wish it were love at second sight like how it was with the girl I used to see. She was almost perfect to me, and I had no doubts I wanted to marry her. I am afraid that I’ll never get that feeling again. I am afraid I’ll never meet another almost-perfect woman again. Which is why I’m still devastated by her breakup.

Logically, this woman has all the great, stable qualities. But I am starting to understand what women mean when they say “You’re a good guy but you just don’t do it for me” but cannot explain why.

 

[CaliLobo]

OP, I think you should focus less on strange women’s looks and more on what you can offer to women. What can you do to make yourself a more desirable marriage partner?

I am well aware of this and my whole adult life has been about growing to become more desirable. Don’t believe me if you don’t want to, but I am not all about looks. I have gone on dates with women who are not physically attractive to me at all.

But I can only offer what I am and nothing more. What if they still reject me despite my best efforts? See my thread here:

Repeating pattern of “you just don’t do it for me” in dating… any solutions?

 

[Xantippe]

It’s usually the not-as-pretty women who are preaching their overscrupulous version of modesty in Evangelical churches, commenting on how other women dress, and making people feel guilty for wanting a partner that is beautiful. Beauty is in the inside and you shouldn’t care what she looks like, they preach. Of course they preach that believe it’s self-serving.

**I think we ought to be physically attracted to a prospective spouse, but there is something to what these people say. We all eventually get old and wrinkly (if we live long enough) and there’s a fair chance of getting fat and bald, having a dowager’s hump, and losing all our teeth, but that doesn’t change our essential character as worth as people.

Bonus fun fact: Did you realize that noses and ears keep getting bigger as we age?

themedicinejournal.com/articles/do-your-ears-and-nose-continue-to-grow-as-you-age/**

 

[Allegra]

No I think you should wait for the perfect woman to come along and fall in love with you. Otherwise, it isn’t fair to all the ugly to average women you keep meeting to get them all excited and then break their hearts when they find out they aren’t up to your standards.

 

[Xantippe]

No I think you should wait for the perfect woman to come along and fall in love with you. Otherwise, it isn’t fair to all the ugly to average women you keep meeting to get them all excited and then break their hearts when they find out they aren’t up to your standards.

Funny!

Come to think of it, it might be worthwhile to do some sort of analysis of your past relationships with a therapist. It’s possible that what you find attractive is unavailability/not-being-into-you/treating-you-badly. And you might possibly have a tendency to be clingy that scares women away. If any of that is true, it would be worthwhile to work with a therapist and deal with those tendencies.

Best wishes!

 

[TheFraggle]

I am glad you are honest CaliLobo. You are doing nothing wrong by saying I am simply not that attracted to her. I don’t think you are being shallow. It is being human. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I am glad you are honest CaliLobo. You are doing nothing wrong by saying I am simply not that attracted to her. I don’t think you are being shallow. It is being human. Nothing wrong with it.

Women often see men they’ve gone out with as unattractive as well, they signal it by not returning phone calls or texts. Are we now going to call them out for it?

 

[Demetra2]

I don’t know old you are but I do wonder why your family is urging you to marry soon. It is important to have good chemistry with your spouse and to be physically attracted to them. Only you know who meets that standard. But it is also important to have reasonable expectations in the looks department. In other words if you are a “6” in looks you should find someone in the 5-7 range acceptable. Unless you have something very special to offer, the “tens” will not be remotely interested in you. Be realistic. Also you need to get to know someone before you can truly determine is they are attractive to you. At first glance you might prefer someone a little better looking but sometimes people can surprise us. As we get to know them better their charm, personalities, intelligence, kindness, flair, style, and faith can radically change our minds and lo and behold they become increasingly attractive to us. That is when true love can really develop. And it is very important to resist being physically intimate when dating(kissing is fine) because that too clouds our judgement. Good luck with the search and work on being the kind of man that women truly desire.

 

[Luvz2travel]

I’m writing because I am being pressured again left and right.

My coworkers, and now my parents, are telling me that they agree with my friend, who said that the only thing that matters in a woman is that she has a good attitude and she is a good mother to her children.

Most people I share that advice with, agree with it.

“All flowers wilt as they get old,” says my dad. “Average looks is all you need,” says my mom. “You can get married if you aren’t so picky,” says my boss.

Today I texted my uncle Merry Christmas, and he writes back saying that he hopes all my New Year’s wishes come true, and that he hopes I get married next year. Who says that on Christmas? A few weeks ago, when I spoke to my grandma on the phone, she also said she hopes I get married next year.

The pressure is everywhere.

Today I got a Christmas gift… a setup date tomorrow. I looked on Facebook, and as I predicted, she is average looking to me. She has a career and likely has all the other good qualities, like emotional and economic stability. Her appearance is acceptable, but it doesn’t stand out.

My fear is that if I keep rejecting perfectly decent women, there’s no guarantee that better women will be available to me later.

Plus, life isn’t always all about me, and I want my family to be happy and see me married.

My question is, is it wise advice that the only thing that matters is that she has a good attitude and is a good mother?

Are those two things (besides shared faith) all that matter in dating, and therefore should I settle and not seek most of what I want in a woman?

I feel happier for moving back to California, but good women are still rare to find. I am still intimidated by the beautiful women (who are often already in relationships anyway), but 14 of the last 15 women I’ve asked out have rejected me after 0-3 dates.

Ok well we are human and some of us need someone we are attracted to others do not. Just to clarify. You need chemistry in my case without it nothing ever works out. I tried several times to be not so picky and what did it get me. An abuser, a guy who couldn’t commit, the guy who was religous but a control freak, then the guy who was good looking but announced he was bipolar and disappered. Looks indeed are not everything but I will be honest enough to admit they help. I still try to give people a chance. If you base all you expectations on looks you are already doomed to failure.

Maybe start friendships with women and work from there. Maybe you will find that getting to know someone is the way you connect not just looking at them. Also don’t enter a relationship or friendship looking for what the person can give you or do for you. That is also a set up for failure. Your post comes off as if you feel entitled to a super model or someone spectacular but obviously the ladies you go out with are not connecting with you. I’m guess it may be the pressure you all feel to find a partner or maybe you come off a bit arrogant. Women like to feel they are being put first. So address the next date as a test to and try to treat the person with kindness and consideration. Be chivalress. Guys these day truly have no clue how to do that anymore. You’d be shocked how far consideration can get you. Bring her flowers for some small token. With ladies with the gesture that counts. Best of luck and I’d drop the entitled arrogant attitude if you have it.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Funny, you have every right to make decisions about who you connect with or don’t as the women rejecting you after 0 to 3 dates.

Who have every right to do that for whatever personal reason they have, just as you have every right to try and understand yourself and who you will be compatible with. Just as it would be wrong for them to string you along waiting for something better to come along, or settle for you because they’re '…panicking and under pressure…" themselves, it would actually be wrong of you to pretend to an attraction you just don’t feel.

Would you really want your partner faking their way through life or feeling like they’ve settled for you? Of course not. Than don’t settle yourself or try to fake something you don’t feel. You owe yourself and your partner more than that.

BTW, panic and desperation are not attractive. Be comfortable living by yourself and with yourself. Do not approach having a partner as a requirement for your life, but as an augmentation to it. I think I wrote this on one of your other threads-- pursue your passions and interests, they make you more attractive to someone else. Just as you’ll find when you do find that someone, you won’t want them slavishly devoted to just you. You’ll find that seeing their passion and enjoyment in pursuing their interests makes them more attractive to you. And you’ll derive enjoyment from supporting/enabling them in those activities. Find out on a first date what someone is interested in, and try and set up the second date engaging in that activity. Whether it’s dancing, bowling… whatever.

Life is short- but being in a bad marriage is far worse than being single. Act in haste, repent at leisure.

 

[3DOCTORS]

First of all, definitely find a polite way to let your family know they shouldn’t pressure you because it might cause you to make the wrong decision. You may or may not succeed with them, though, so you should also develop a way of letting their pressure go “in one ear and out the other” if they persist. And maybe they are genuinely concerned because there are so many young and not-so-young men who postpone marriage indefinitely these days. So they may have a point, but don’t let it hold too much sway. You’re the one who’ll have to live with the woman you choose and who chooses you.

Secondly, take some of the pressure off right now by doing more friend-making and less date/potential-wife shopping. You may be making yourself unnecessarily tense and putting too much weight on every encounter with a female. How do I know this? Because in my 20s-30s I was sort of your female counterpart. Which may partly explain why I never did marry . . . Dating is a less than optimal cultural ritual for the purpose of finding a spouse, IMO, but it’s probably not going to go away anytime soon. Mostly we have to just try to make it less painful and anxiety-provoking.

Also, I don’t have any great solutions for the problem of being too caught up in someone’s looks, etc., because I was guilty of this myself back in the day. I do remember when I was in my late 20s I worked with this fellow who was such a wonderful person, but a little nerdy and not slender and tall yet slightly buff as my ideal physical type, plus he was brunette rather than blond, etc. - and yet I was so attracted to him! Too bad he was married and off limits. I did realize what a smart young lady his wife was to not be like me. I’d bet they’re still together today.

 

[petitfleur]

You should not rush this. you should not marry to please other people, and perhaps put it on the back burner and form friendships with woman to take the pressure off of yourself.

 

[petitfleur]

That was inappropriate.

I am not sure it was… Maybe a better thing to say would be you did not feel an attraction or chemistry toward the person. Can you see how it can be interpreted?

I think you should be offended how your family views marriage. All you need is an average face. Are they saying you are shallow? Do they think you think you are too good for everyone. Are you concearned with not making connections? I don’t think you can force chemistry, but we can become attracted to someone after getting to know them, and if you are looking for marriage eligibility when talking to women it might not help how you come off either. So relax.

 

[PaulinVA]

Lobo, I’m glad that you feel better back in Cali.

As to when do you stop looking because you have found the one? You will know.

If you think you’ve found someone you can’t live without, well, then, don’t. Stop looking and pursue that idea, the two of you. Don’t keep thinking you are settling. You are finding someone you can spend your life with. That’s it.

I met my wife when we were 18. We are now in our fifties. I don’t look the same and neither does she. BUT, we love each other and that is what is important.

 

[DaisymaeD]

I’ve been following this thread with some interest, especially because your post provoked some pretty strong negative emotional responses, implying your standards are a little shallow. Later, you protested that you weren’t shallow at all!

Actually, I’m inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, and here’s why–people are way more complicated than can be inferred from one Internet post. And, you were obviously upst when you posted. However, you may have inadvertently stumbled on to the root of your problem–your presentation.

You see, your original post was heavily skewed towards judging women by their looks. Maybe you didn’t mean it that way, but we as the readers have no other frame of reference to judge your case by. Maybe in real life, you’re unwittingly sending out “judgey” vibe that turn people off. There are coaches and books out there that can help you with self awareness and social skills.

This isn’t an insult, just an observation.