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seopositive2
Guest
Very interesting as well as informative post.Thanks for providing for us.
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Marfran
Guest
If all the women in your family, and all the girls/women you know wear pants (at least some of the time), I am surprised that you have such negative feelings toward women wearing pants.
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adstrinity
Guest
I went to Confession today and I was taking note of what people wore. It humoured me that some women wore long skirts, some wore short skirts, one was in a pair of jeans, another woman was in a pair of pants and crocks. Some dresses/tops were tank tops, men (not all) wore short sleeves. I found all of this funny because we’re only there to worship God; not have an audience with the Pope who has a stricter dress code.
I was wearing pants (and, I suppose they show off my figure. One can tell I am fat. I remember a commedian saying something along the lines of, ‘You know your fat when your sweats become tights.’ I think it was Dave Barry, but, I cannot be positive.) and an ill fitting top. it is supposed to be off the shoulder I think, but, of course, I cannot wear it that way. It also showed that I was fat. As a matter of fact, I have to mend a little tear in it.
Anyway, made my confession, then, after I was given my pennance, I told father I was there last week for his homily and asked him, point blank, with my face hidden, “Is it immoral for women to wear pants?”
And he said: Yes.
I think I told him at this point I cannot agree with him and he pointed out that the Bible said in the end times men would dress like women and women would dress like men. “Men don’t go around wearing dresses.” Adding to this he continued that women wear pants because they want to hold the same “authority as men.” I’m not entirely sure what the exact quote was, but, he made the point of women and “authority as men.”
I told him, “But, it’s more comfortable.”
“I’m not contesting it’s more comfortable…It would be more comfortable if I could wake up at 5:45 in the morning, but, as Our Lady told Lucia, ‘I will not make you comfortable in this life, but, I will make you comfortable in the next life.’ No, he told Bernadette that, repeats quote”. I think he also added here an example [though, it could have been after the comment about Authority] of a couple wanting to get married who are fornicating. The Church isn’t telling them not to get married because they are in love, the Church is saying they cannot marry them if they continue to sin…or something. I forgot when this part came in, but, I understood him to mean that it’s not for nothing that he’s saying this. It is for a very legitimate reason, and, it’s not because he has anything personal against it, but, God set up the standards of men and women.
Pause
I told him that I will have to think about this and it is on my conscience now.
So, as an author not quite as good as me but somehow still manages to get published said: How do we make concord of this discord?
Well, I am pretty sure that he is a dresses all the time kind of guy because three weeks ago he told a poem up at the pulpit:
Mr. Business went to Mass
He did it every Sunday
And Mr. Business went to Hell
For what he did on Monday.
Incidentally, his homily last week was who we should have as an idol, NOT how the media covers Michael Jackson.
The church has the relics of the girl last week and St. John Vianny this week which we all had the option to venerate after Mass.
Since the dresses are fairly cheep, I guess it wouldn’t hurt to buy one dress for church from that holy clothing site.
I acknowledge, from this thread and from the pm’s I have gotten that it is not Church teaching that women MUST be in dresses or skirts. Nowhere does it say that and nowhere does anybody in any great authority really hold to it. Typically, it is because of an interpretation of a passage in the Bible that causes some to think women MUST NOT wear pants (or shorts), but, it is NOT a sin to wear pants. Yes, I know this. AND, it occured to me why I usually don’t wear dresses: Don’t have a reason. Don’t own any because I never go anywhere where dresses or skirts are required. I, again, may make an exception for Easter (always), Christmas (sometimes), and Halloween (lately). Perhaps a wedding or occasional Sunday. Since it is the Mass, and therefore, Heaven, to which I would be wearing this, I SUPPOSE, I could dress my best for Jesus Christ, Himself.
I was wearing pants (and, I suppose they show off my figure. One can tell I am fat. I remember a commedian saying something along the lines of, ‘You know your fat when your sweats become tights.’ I think it was Dave Barry, but, I cannot be positive.) and an ill fitting top. it is supposed to be off the shoulder I think, but, of course, I cannot wear it that way. It also showed that I was fat. As a matter of fact, I have to mend a little tear in it.
Anyway, made my confession, then, after I was given my pennance, I told father I was there last week for his homily and asked him, point blank, with my face hidden, “Is it immoral for women to wear pants?”
And he said: Yes.
I think I told him at this point I cannot agree with him and he pointed out that the Bible said in the end times men would dress like women and women would dress like men. “Men don’t go around wearing dresses.” Adding to this he continued that women wear pants because they want to hold the same “authority as men.” I’m not entirely sure what the exact quote was, but, he made the point of women and “authority as men.”
I told him, “But, it’s more comfortable.”
“I’m not contesting it’s more comfortable…It would be more comfortable if I could wake up at 5:45 in the morning, but, as Our Lady told Lucia, ‘I will not make you comfortable in this life, but, I will make you comfortable in the next life.’ No, he told Bernadette that, repeats quote”. I think he also added here an example [though, it could have been after the comment about Authority] of a couple wanting to get married who are fornicating. The Church isn’t telling them not to get married because they are in love, the Church is saying they cannot marry them if they continue to sin…or something. I forgot when this part came in, but, I understood him to mean that it’s not for nothing that he’s saying this. It is for a very legitimate reason, and, it’s not because he has anything personal against it, but, God set up the standards of men and women.
Pause
I told him that I will have to think about this and it is on my conscience now.
So, as an author not quite as good as me but somehow still manages to get published said: How do we make concord of this discord?
Well, I am pretty sure that he is a dresses all the time kind of guy because three weeks ago he told a poem up at the pulpit:
Mr. Business went to Mass
He did it every Sunday
And Mr. Business went to Hell
For what he did on Monday.
Incidentally, his homily last week was who we should have as an idol, NOT how the media covers Michael Jackson.
The church has the relics of the girl last week and St. John Vianny this week which we all had the option to venerate after Mass.
Since the dresses are fairly cheep, I guess it wouldn’t hurt to buy one dress for church from that holy clothing site.
I acknowledge, from this thread and from the pm’s I have gotten that it is not Church teaching that women MUST be in dresses or skirts. Nowhere does it say that and nowhere does anybody in any great authority really hold to it. Typically, it is because of an interpretation of a passage in the Bible that causes some to think women MUST NOT wear pants (or shorts), but, it is NOT a sin to wear pants. Yes, I know this. AND, it occured to me why I usually don’t wear dresses: Don’t have a reason. Don’t own any because I never go anywhere where dresses or skirts are required. I, again, may make an exception for Easter (always), Christmas (sometimes), and Halloween (lately). Perhaps a wedding or occasional Sunday. Since it is the Mass, and therefore, Heaven, to which I would be wearing this, I SUPPOSE, I could dress my best for Jesus Christ, Himself.
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Bluegoat
Guest
Honestly, I would find a new priest. I don’t agree with the pants thing, but generally I do think it is bad to pick and choose too much for confession etc. But if a priest told me something was a sin, that the Church clearly does not support, I would wonder about his judgement. What else might he claim as Truth that is really just his opinion? If a priest told me artificial contraception wasn’t a sin, I’d be sensible not to go to him for advice, and this is not much different.
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dang71
Guest
a quick search of Ask An Apologist found this answer by Michelle Arnold to the same question:
here is the link to the original:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38501
here is the link to the original:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38501
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JSSebastianoP
Guest
The same could be said about the women in my grandparents’ generation:
“If all the women in their family, and all the girls/women they knew wore skirts, I am surpries that they have such positive feelings toward women wearing pants.”
The reason I have “such negative feelings toward women wearing pants” is because I’m rather traditional-minded in not only the faith but many other things as well…
I am one of those rare cases where the child is in some ways more old-fashioned than the parents. I say why I think that is below, but it’s kind of off-topic, so skip it if you want…
My family was always kind of lukewarm in the faith; we went to mass sometimes but more especially for Christmas, Easter, Ash Wednesday, and Epiphany. But I guess my being rather traditional stems from four distinct events. The first is that my great-grandfather (to whom I was not especially close) died when I was 7. Many people think that when you’re young, you can’t understand death, but this event really shook me and after the funeral, I never wanted to go to a Church again (luckily my father convinced me to go back); but that event and the stories of his life have impacted me so much it’s hard to describe… The second is that my parents from when I was young were into alternative medicine, but sometime when I was about 10, my mother crossed the line and started doing lots of new age stuff and started using a pendulum; which I new was wrong but I wasn’t able to and still have trouble to be able to cope with it. The third is that when I was preparing for my confirmation (I was still kind of lukewarm in my faith) my faith was shaken because a schoolteacher I greatly admired was a proud atheist; luckily I had a great CCD teacher - I’m indebted mostly to him for bringing me back. So essentialy, I was forced to rationally think through my faith. The fourth is that I took a trip with my school to Portuagal and we got to visit lots of Churches and even see Fatima.
So, essentially, other events sparked my faith but the real struggle for me is living in a house where I constantly disagree with my parents. When my mother wanted to do some new age stuff to me (she knows I object generally, but I was really sick), I told her it was against catholicism, and she asked something along the lines of “who do you trust more, me or some man-made church?” Of course I said the Church, but my father also likes to be theological and when I said I might write an english paper on gay adoptions, he asked me which side I would write for and when I told him ‘against’ he looked at me like I had three heads. I’m so traditionalist beacause I feel it’s necessary to help my faith.
I think though I summed up my reasonable ‘middle of the road’ position in my post above where I refer to vegitarianism…
I do have some friends my age but I usually get along better with people who are in my parents’ or grandparents’ generation; I’m just strange that way.
Pax.
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adstrinity
Guest
Well, like he said, the Pope has dedicated June - June (or maybe July - July) the Year Of The Priest, in honour of The Cure of Ars. He also mentioned in his homily that people get the leader they deserve. I guess we should all pray for him if he really feels this way so that his pride and his teaching doesn’t go over that of the Church.
I cannot find a new priest. This parish only has two of them and the other priest, the one who is in charge of this parish, is away until the 23rd.
I understand what you are saying, but, if something is every TOO conservative/traditional that would cause me to question it, I know that I have everybody here to quell my concerns.
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Aramis
Guest
The power to declare something a sin is the power of the Bishop, not the priest.
The church has not declared women in trousers a sin, so you need to find out if your bishop has. If not, your priest is making errors in judgement.
The church has not declared women in trousers a sin, so you need to find out if your bishop has. If not, your priest is making errors in judgement.
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Bluegoat
Guest
That is likely a good attitude.
If you are really bothered, you might try telling him or even giving him a letter, if you get tongue tied. (In that case, say that’s why in a letter though.) You could just say something like your research makes it very clear that the Church doesn’t take the position he has, that you respect his opinion and have tried to understand it clearly, but that you find it upsetting and worrisome that he is saying something is clearly and always a sin when the Church says it isn’t.
Of course you might just not want to get into it at all, on the other hand, it’s a bit worrisome beyond the actual pants issue. You might also ask the other priest about it when he returns. I’d specifically address the difference in the priests view and what the Church says.
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BlyssfulDreamer
Guest
Before I started going to the TLM I called the priest and asked him point blank if it were ok for me to wear pants? I had done some reading on this site (lol) and if he would have said “No.” I would have continued going to the NO at my parish of registry.
What he said was that it was ok for me to wear pants and that oher women in the oratory did.
So, here we have 2 priests…both with differing views.
I think the pants/dresses thing is blown up out of proportion. What matters is that we go to Mass, worship our Lord and do right by our fellow man. I think we can say the same arguments over and over till we are blue in the face and we don’t sway anyone’s opinion. We are pretty much set in our ways. I think you have to do what is right in your eyes and let the chips fall where they may. Like I said in one of my posts way back at the beginning of this thread, I would find a different church or barring that I would continue to dress respectfully and as you see fit. If this were a concern for the Church then at some point a law will be made regarding dress.
For those of you who are very adamant about the dress of other worshippers, please keep your eyes straight ahead…to the crucifix and what it represents and you should have enough to fill your mind. Don’t worry about what I wear because I doubt I will go to hell for wearing pants.
What he said was that it was ok for me to wear pants and that oher women in the oratory did.
So, here we have 2 priests…both with differing views.
I think the pants/dresses thing is blown up out of proportion. What matters is that we go to Mass, worship our Lord and do right by our fellow man. I think we can say the same arguments over and over till we are blue in the face and we don’t sway anyone’s opinion. We are pretty much set in our ways. I think you have to do what is right in your eyes and let the chips fall where they may. Like I said in one of my posts way back at the beginning of this thread, I would find a different church or barring that I would continue to dress respectfully and as you see fit. If this were a concern for the Church then at some point a law will be made regarding dress.
For those of you who are very adamant about the dress of other worshippers, please keep your eyes straight ahead…to the crucifix and what it represents and you should have enough to fill your mind. Don’t worry about what I wear because I doubt I will go to hell for wearing pants.
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dang71
Guest
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Jesus_123
Guest
- Peace . . .
In regard to honoring the below Holy Portion of Sacred Scripture . . .
:bible1:** Deuteronomy 22:5** “*A woman shall not be clothed with man’s apparel, neither shall a man use woman’s apparel: for he that doeth these things is abominable before God.” *
**Modesty is stressed as of vast importance for women . . . in Sacred Scripture and in The Catechism of the Catholic Church . . . and has been so stressed by the Blessed Virgin Mary in Church approved apparitions (in particular at Fatima) . . . and has been stressed by multitudes of Saints over the centuries . . . but robes having been the mode of dress for both men and women during Biblical times in Judea **. . . and there being so many variations of dress in different cultures throughout the world in its entirety . . . I think it should be noted that taking care to wear **modest clothing specifically designed for your sex **seems to be the . . . “Rule of Thumb” . . . and has been for many centuries in time . . . pants being nowhere mentioned by any of the three above referenced authorities as the exclusive property of either men or women re clothing worn over the centuries . . .
The Lord more-often-than-not guides me to wear modest slacks in many situations . . . specifically designed for women . . . and friends of mine have shared they have received the exact same holy guidance . . . *the emphasis being that they must be . . . **modest and specifically designed for women ***. . . I love long skirts and dresses . . . but I have long prayerfully trusted God to carefully guide me . . . day by day . . . as to what is the appropriate clothing to wear for any given day or occassion . . . and I trust Him to continue to do so . . .
I think we all need to lift up in our prayers the priests who opinions were reflected in the original post . . . immodesty is one thing . . . but to condemn “pants” in particular as being “disordered” when worn by women . . . unless they are worn immodestly (too tight, too low cut, etc.) . . . I cannot fathom from what **Catholic Christian foundation/basis ** the priests can site for making such a value judgement call . . . without disputation . . .
:bible1: 1 Timothy 2:8-10 “I will therefore that men pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger and contention. In like manner women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire, but as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.”
*God bless us one and all as we seek God’s Loving Guidance and Wisdom in this area . . . *
. . . all for Jesus+
. . . Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . be Thou our Guide+
. . . Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . be Thou our Guide+
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n4mgr
Guest
Hillery Clinton is a d y k e and most of the world outside of the feminist portions of the US can see that.
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mkingdomlvr
Guest
That seems to me to be a very uncharitable comment.
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n4mgr
Guest
I know doesn’t it.
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mkingdomlvr
Guest
Then why make it? To show off your lack of charity towards others?? It certainly adds nothing to the discussion.
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stevusmagnus
Guest
What one wears to Mass matters and the standards are not subjective.
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n4mgr
Guest
You didn’t get I can tell and for defending her it lowers my opinion of you, but it’s only my opinion. I can’t help she was mentioned in a post. I despise liberals and I will never back down from that. We don’t need the progressivist **** that seems to be pushed at us from every angle both at Church by lay people no less and by secular society. This country and our world are headed straight to hell and immodesty, including the blending of gender roles is both sinful and anti-Catholic, whether you agree or not doesn’t make me or my point wrong. I will not apologize for trashing Hillary Clinton. She and her husband are one a the worst things to happen to this country in the last 20 years.
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cknick
Guest
WWJD?
MATTHEW 6:25-39
Do Not Worry
25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[a]?
MATTHEW 6:25-39
Do Not Worry
25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[a]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
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mkingdomlvr
Guest
I’m defending her because being uncharitable towards others is against everything I was ever taught in Catholic school. Sister Mary Frances (3rd grade) would never forgive me if I let that go. I would defend ANYONE the same way.
Disagreeing with someone does not give us permission to be uncharitable to them.
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