Papal Coat of Arms

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Hi everyone,

In light of the tension/disappointment/what-have-you regarding Pope Francis’ liturgical preference, I was wondering how people reacted when Pope Benedict XVI released his coat of arms:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...PioM.svg/180px-BXVI_CoA_like_gfx_PioM.svg.png

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Pope_Benedict_XVI

As you may know, one of the most striking features is the replacement of the tiara with the mitre.

Compare Benedict’s above with Pope John Paul II’s:



or Pope John Paul I’s:



Clearly, that was unprecedented, and a sign of modesty in traditional papal iconography. What were people’s reactions (if you remember)? Are we, perhaps, being way too harsh on Francis if we gave Benedict a pass on this?

Also, as a small side note/question: when should we expect Pope Francis’ papal coat of arms?

EDIT: Made images smaller.
 
There was, as predictable, some shock and dismay…although the motivation for the change on BXVI’s coat of arms is disputed, I’ve read it was in homage to Paul VI, who elevated Cardinal Ratzinger to his position. And the Coat of Arms, though used most frequently with the Miter, could also be rendered (as it was in the Vatican Garden on on the flag of the Swiss Guard) with a Tiara.

I would expect to see it within the next couple of weeks or so…he may simply choose to use his current arms redrawn as a Papal shield, or may use an entirely different set of arms. Either way, I doubt its something he’ll take particular interest in - which might work in the favor of those who want to see a Tiara, since it would probably be the choice of the protocol experts.

A couple of concept renderings have been done by people unconnected to the Vatican:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...6fWl46ZWvKNf0fEiX9WWsOEdVnyKewbUAHCN0x49eRxAa
 
mburn16 said:
There was, as predictable, some shock and dismay…although the motivation for the change on BXVI’s coat of arms is disputed, I’ve read it was in homage to Paul VI, who elevated Cardinal Ratzinger to his position.
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I didn’t know this! Thanks for the information!
And the Coat of Arms, though used most frequently with the Miter, could also be rendered (as it was in the Vatican Garden on on the flag of the Swiss Guard) with a Tiara.
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I believe that was simply for practical purposes, in that the gardeners left the flowers shaping the tiara in after the death of Pope John Paul II. Instead of digging them up after Benedict’s coat of arms were released, they simply left them in.
I would expect to see it within the next couple of weeks or so…he may simply choose to use his current arms redrawn as a Papal shield, or may use an entirely different set of arms. Either way, I doubt its something he’ll take particular interest in - which might work in the favor of those who want to see a Tiara, since it would probably be the choice of the protocol experts.
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I think something we’ve all learned this week is that Pope Francis is unpredictable in his interests and actions. 😉
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRczZvhHJRNzNLIXNih-B__MMealke_lW7WjeT1R16MWY7hldTI
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I particularly like this one!
 
Although I am ambiguous about the pope actually wearing a tiara, I would be very pleased to see it back on the coat of arms. Kind of like how a galero is on a cardinal’s coat of arms even though cardinals no longer wear them. It bespeaks a certain beauty and power,
 
If he restores the Tiara to the coat of arms, I’ll be quiet. The mozzetta and papal slippers have come and gone and come again. If a particular Pope decides to wear a simpler cape (John Paul only ever used the plain red one, without the fur or lining, and wore brown workingman’s shoes), there’s plenty of precedent for this to be a personal choice that will fade and come back with successive Popes.

But I’d like some evidence that all pageantry and pomp and ceremony aren’t being chucked, never to return. using the Tiara, I think, would be sufficient sign of compromise with the traditionalist elements.

I think Pope Francis is a legitimately personally humble man. He did not grow up privileged and has spent the better part of his pastoral career working with the poorest of the poor in some of the poorest areas of the world. He is a jesuit, and overall a man who still seems awestruck with his office. Perhaps his thus-far rejection of some of the extra trappings are merely a personal decision to avoid the feeling of being on a leash to the Vatican protocol office.

I’m perfectly happy to give him the personal space ANY person deserves, as long as he doesn’t unintentionally drag the rest of the church with him to consequences that may not be fully realized.
 
Sometimes circumstances present themselves that we have no control over and, I am of the thought, that we can only control our attitudes in the face of those circumstances. Or at least, will our attitude.

Are people afraid of Pope Francis? Or of his preferences?

One mark of character is the attitude a person has when they are faced with things that they dont like, dont prefer, or have no choice in.

Praying for Pope Francis, and his flock.
 
Are people afraid of Pope Francis? Or of his preferences?
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Personally, I would say “neither”…what I’m afraid of is what long-term consequences his personal preferences may have. As I mentioned last night…did Paul VI really intend to set a precedent of not wearing the Tiara? The evidence (in his instruction for the coronation of his successor) suggests the answer is no. Yet here we are, half a century later, and still no Tiara. So too, I think, is the danger for Pope Francis who dispenses with Papal ceremony. Certainly this may very well just be a personal choice that he is comfortable with, but if could have consequences long past his time on Earth.
 
I have to admit, specifically speaking about coats of arms, I dont really care. Yes they are symbols and have meaning, and are traditional across many cultures,

But I bet you most people, Catholic or otherwise, can identify a who’s who’s list of coats of arms.

Goodness, how many people do you know can identify a handful of national flags?
How many Americans can identify the 50 different state flags?
 
mburn16 said:
Personally, I would say “neither”…what I’m afraid of is what long-term consequences his personal preferences may have. As I mentioned last night…did Paul VI really intend to set a precedent of not wearing the Tiara? The evidence (in his instruction for the coronation of his successor) suggests the answer is no. Yet here we are, half a century later, and still no Tiara. So too, I think, is the danger for Pope Francis who dispenses with Papal ceremony. Certainly this may very well just be a personal choice that he is comfortable with, but if could have consequences long past his time on Earth.
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I think the decline we have seen in cultures has nothing to do with the wearing, or not wearing, of the tiara or other papal attire.

I do understand that you think differently.
 
Marie5890 said:
I think the decline we have seen in cultures has nothing to do with the wearing, or not wearing, of the tiara or other papal attire.

I do understand that you think differently.
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Its a little more complex than that. I don’t think that, by some miracle Pope Francis elected to be crowned tomorrow, we would suddenly see a spike in reverence and obedience to the Church and to God among the errant populations of the world.

But I do think that it is in our best interests to be unashamedly Catholic, and to embrace the centuries of ritual and ceremony that we have accumulated, and to provide due honor and dignity to the office of Pope. And to God. And to the Liturgy. I think the approach needs to be “this is how it is, and this is right, and this is good”, not “can humbling the church below a due level of honor attract more people because they won’t believe false criticisms of hypocrisy?”

Here in the United States, we’ve seen lots of Churches and Priests who seem almost afraid to act as a spiritual authority, to declare firmly that the layity owes to Christ and his Church, not the other way around. We’ve seen Bishops hesitant to clamp down on these faults, and I think it has only helped to accellerate the trend of “cafeteria catholicism” that we are struggling with.
 
mburn16 said:
Personally, I would say “neither”…what I’m afraid of is what long-term consequences his personal preferences may have. As I mentioned last night…did Paul VI really intend to set a precedent of not wearing the Tiara? The evidence (in his instruction for the coronation of his successor) suggests the answer is no. Yet here we are, half a century later, and still no Tiara. So too, I think, is the danger for Pope Francis who dispenses with Papal ceremony. Certainly this may very well just be a personal choice that he is comfortable with, but if could have consequences long past his time on Earth.
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I actually share your fears. I too worry that others will misinterpret our new pope’s actions to mean that ceremony and beauty are wrong. He seems very good. Keep praying for him.
 
mburn16 said:
But I do think that it is in our best interests to be unashamedly Catholic, and to embrace the centuries of ritual and ceremony that we have accumulated, and to provide due honor and dignity to the office of Pope. And to God. And to the Liturgy.
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But there are so many traditions over the centuries and millenia even. Nothing Pope Francis has done is out of of step with that. He is embracing a more simple sense of ritual and ceremony.

I do understand and respect that there are those who want and appreciate the more elaborate sense, however. There are others who dont.

I would personally find it sad if he tried to clamp down on the EF because I know many find it greatly enhancing their devotion and worship. I would be surprised if he took any steps to surpress it.

But I dont see him changing who is he, either. Infact, considering he visited the tomb of Pius V, I would expect he felt he was elected for a reason. That reason being, to bring who he is, and the gifts he has been given, to help reform the Church.

I am curious to see what he may see as needing reform, the Curia aside.

Praying for all of us, and Pope Francis. 🙂
 
mburn16 said:
But I do think that it is in our best interests to be unashamedly Catholic, and to embrace the centuries of ritual and ceremony that we have accumulated, and to provide due honor and dignity to the office of Pope. And to God. And to the Liturgy. I think the approach needs to be “this is how it is, and this is right, and this is good”, not “can humbling the church below a due level of honor attract more people because they won’t believe false criticisms of hypocrisy?”

.
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Yes! Part of what attracted me to the Catholic church when I was a non-practicing Protestant was precisely the ceremony and “Catholic-ness”! Beauty and ritual are powerful ways of evangelizing without words.
 
latingirl said:
I actually share your fears. I too worry that others will misinterpret our new pope’s actions to mean that ceremony and beauty are wrong. He seems very good. Keep praying for him.
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Ok, I can understand that concern. 🙂

Yes, we human beings, as broken as we are, often misinterpret another’s intent.

I do agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with ceremony and beauty, and they can indeed enhance much.
 
Marie5890 said:
Ok, I can understand that concern. 🙂

Yes, we human beings, as broken as we are, often misinterpret another’s intent.

I do agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with ceremony and beauty, and they can indeed enhance much.
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🙂
 
latingirl said:
Yes! Part of what attracted me to the Catholic church when I was a non-practicing Protestant was precisely the ceremony and “Catholic-ness”! Beauty and ritual are powerful ways of evangelizing without words.
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That is true.

They also, however, can have the opposite effect. They can turn other people off.

In the end, it is the Word, Jesus Christ, who is and should be the center. Not the externals.

Because externals change.

Jesus Christ does not.
 
So he really is intent on taking a hatchet to Papal ceremonial.

This could be a rough few years…

Its even more simplistic than Benedict’s already much-toned-down version was.
 
Marie5890 said:
That is true.

They also, however, can have the opposite effect. They can turn other people off.

In the end, it is the Word, Jesus Christ, who is and should be the center. Not the externals.

Because externals change.

Jesus Christ does not.
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While of course the Gospel should be at the center, the externals point to the Word of God. I have noticed in Masses that use alot of ceremony that the high-point is always at the Gospel reading and the Eucharist. Jesus Christ doesn’t change and the externals should also point to that. I wrote an article on my blog about how our Catholic life is a romance with God. Romance is more than just feelings. It is doing something. It is serenading the one you love, putting out flowers, holding the door and dressing nice. It isn’t just a spiritual thing, it is a physical thing in which we use our whole bodies and senses to declare our love. Every Mass is a wedding feast, let us not forget.
 
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