Papal Contradictions on Abortion

[budgie2]

I know this one is out of date. Just to back up that whether or not abortion is mortal sin depends on when we get our soul as it is our soul which is the most valuable part of me and according to the Catechism it is chiefly in my soul that I am made in the image of God. If a fertilised egg, embryo or fetus has a soul then I am breaking the commandment “Thou shalt not kill”. I believe that the soul is given at conception as from conception I am genetically unique and a fertilised egg has a genetic blueprint for a new individual as far as I know. As there is some type of union between the body and soul, I believe I must have a spiritual unique identity from conception also. A fertilised egg is not just part of the woman or man. A fertilised egg is part of the man (sperm) joined to part of the woman (egg) and therefore is “a child” and a new individual. However, in the case of conception outside the womb or IVF the gift of the soul may be delayed. It is up to God when he chooses to give the soul and if conception occurs in a laboratory it is also up to God whether he chooses to sanctify the creation of the scientists. In the case of IVF, the soul is given after implantation and up to the beating of the heart. The soul is certainly given between conception and the beating of the heart, normally the first if conception occurs within the womb.

 

[elts1956]

The information I posted was not quoted from the show. I heard about it on the show and did a search of my own and found information that both Popes Gregory XIII and XIV permitted it during the first 40-days and then Popes Sixtus V and Pius IX countered it. However, I don’t know how to confirm this historically. My questions is this: is it true? Did Popes Gregory XIII and XIV permit abortion later to have it made a sin by later popes? Is it true or not?

I doubt whether any Pope,up until modern day when science provided the answer as to when life begins, which is at conception, could have intuitively known when we receive our soul. Because of modern study and technology and the fact that Science has proven, life begins at conception, the Church now says no abortion at ANY TIME during gestation or after. St. Augustine also pondered this problem and although he is a Saint AND a theologian, he didn’t have the right answer either.

In this instance, the Church has depended on the latest scientific research to give her the answer, not v.v.

 

[BobCatholic]

Jerry Bruckheimer is not exactly known for being friendly toward the Catholic Church and her teaching (nor for other Christian churches)

catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2007&month=November&read=2330
hometheatershack.com/store-ca/bluray-952768-B000MX7UFS-King_Arthur_Directors_Cut_Blu_ray.html

Keep this in mind if any characters start talking about Catholicism or any other form of Christianity.

Also, the Church’s stand against abortion can be traced as far back as Didache 2:2
wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/fathers/ante-nic/didache.htm

2:2 {Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery,} thou shalt not corrupt boys, thou shalt not commit fornication, {thou shalt not steal,} thou shalt not deal in magic, thou shalt do no sorcery, thou shalt not murder a child by abortion nor kill them when born, {thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s goods, thou shalt not perjure thyself, thou shalt not bear false witness,} thou shalt not speak evil, thou shalt not cherish a grudge, thou shalt not be double-minded nor double-tongued;

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Return2truth,

I basically have two problems with the presentation:

1.) murder was always seen as wrong. This was clearly identified by St. Thomas Acquinas in the 13th Century - catholic.com/quickquestions/did-st-thomas-aquinas-believe-ensoulment-occurred-40-or-80-days-after-conception-maki

2.) Sixtus V lived in the middle of he 16th Century newadvent.org/cathen/14033a.htm and the study of obstetrics and gynecology was really not that far advanced. Truly the ability of women today to know they are pregnant 40 days post conception is an astoundlingly small numbe - and this is with the availability of home pregnancy test kits! pregnancywizard.com/getting-pregnant/conception-after.php Just from a biological view, I see it highly unlikely that most would probably be alerted by the time they missed their second period (and noticed body changes).

But, #2 is just speculation on my part - so, I will go with my first reason as stated above.

Abortion has always been wrong.

God bless

The information I posted was not quoted from the show. I heard about it on the show and did a search of my own and found information that both Popes Gregory XIII and XIV permitted it during the first 40-days and then Popes Sixtus V and Pius IX countered it. However, I don’t know how to confirm this historically. My questions is this: is it true? Did Popes Gregory XIII and XIV permit abortion later to have it made a sin by later popes? Is it true or not?

 

[Matilda_Bennett]

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