Papal Coronation

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sambothepapist

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Hi-

What would it take to revive this lost beautiful tradition? Is it even possible? :confused:
 
Of course it’s possible. All it would take would be for the next Pope to decide that he wants a traditional coronation.
 
Is it even possible? Ask rather, “Is it even necessary”?

The tiara is a symbol of worldly power, and Jesus said that His Kingdom is NOT of this world.

Why therefore should he who is called Christ’s Vicar wear a symbol of worldly, secular pomp?
 
Well…the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth…the leader of His Church which happens to cover the entire globe/world.
bpbasilphx said:
Is it even possible? Ask rather, “Is it even necessary”?

The tiara is a symbol of worldly power, and Jesus said that His Kingdom is NOT of this world.

Why therefore should he who is called Christ’s Vicar wear a symbol of worldly, secular pomp?
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bpbasilphx said:
Is it even possible? Ask rather, “Is it even necessary”?

The tiara is a symbol of worldly power, and Jesus said that His Kingdom is NOT of this world.

Why therefore should he who is called Christ’s Vicar wear a symbol of worldly, secular pomp?
Click to expand...
For some reason I thought the papal tiara was a symbol of the pope’s authority and the three rings or tiers symbolized the Most Holy Trinity 🤷

But I would have to agree. The pomp and circumstance which use to surround the pontiffs was beautiful but it is completely unnecessary. Many people see the pope and the Vatican today and think there’s too much pomp and ceremony. Imagine if we brought back the tiara, ostrich feather fans, and the sede gestatoria!
 
A modified version of the Papal Coronation might be good.
Like the ostrich feathers are a bit too much… but the seat and crown seem good… and i don’t know what else they did… but if they modified it a bit i think it would be quite nice.
 
I think the Sede Gestatoria and the ostrich feathers might be a bit much (although the Holy Father of course can make that decision on his own) but, personally, I find the idea of the Papal Tiara to be beautiful and appropriate. It shows that while he is a spiritual and not a temporal leader, the Vicar of Christ has been appointed by Christ to a position above all temporal leaders.

In fact, it is my understanding that the three bands on the tiara represent this authority. Kings of kingdoms wear a crown of a single band, the Holy Roman Emperor wore a crown with two bands/levels, and the Holy Father wears three bands/levels on his tiara to demonstrate that (despite the spiritual nature of his authority) the Vicar of Christ ultimately stands above the temporal authorities of the world, hence the fact the Holy Roman Emperor was always crowned by the Holy Father.

The traditional use of physical regalia by the leadership of the Church, at whatever level, is a great way for the faithful to be reminded of our place in this world - to say nothing of the simple beauty of such things (Byzantine/Eastern liturgy and vestments, anyone? 🙂 ).
 
3Sanctus said:
I think the Sede Gestatoria and the ostrich feathers might be a bit much (although the Holy Father of course can make that decision on his own) but, personally, I find the idea of the Papal Tiara to be beautiful and appropriate. It shows that while he is a spiritual and not a temporal leader, the Vicar of Christ has been appointed by Christ to a position above all temporal leaders.
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But the pope is the head of a sovereign state, albeit the smallest in the world.

Chris
 
rkrispies said:
But the pope is the head of a sovereign state, albeit the smallest in the world.

Chris
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shh! don’t mention that… hahaha 😛
but still the crown would be more of his authority as pope than anything else… although they could pass it off as a coronation of the sovereign head of state… i mean to those who would criticize the church
 
Personally, I see the fact that His Holiness is the head of state of Vatican City to be essentially irrelevant. Not to say that his position politically is meaningless, but no one outside Vatican City would owe him allegiance due to his position as the city’s head of state, but rather as the Vicar of Christ. Were the political entity of the Vatican City to be completely dissolved it would in no way change His Holiness’ status or his use of the tiara and other such items (unless of course His Holiness decided to use that as a reason for change concerning those items).
 
sambothepapist said:
Hi-

What would it take to revive this lost beautiful tradition? Is it even possible? :confused:
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All it would take is for a future pope to want it. Why would they though? Sure, it’s beautiful- but just because something looks nice doesn’t mean it is necessary. Royalty doesn’t have the impact on the world that it used to have, so portraying the papacy that way wouldn’t make as much sense. The pope doesn’t wear a tiara anymore either.
 
In the end it is up to the Pope how their Inauguration/Coronation goes. Personally, if I were Pope, I’d be on the fence between going full hug (feathers and all) or doing something extremely low key (like very somber and plain). I always thought if I were Pope, instead of wearing all that white garb, I’d just wear a standard black cassock adorned with white pips and sash (just as a Bishop’s is adorned in purple and a Cardinal’s in scarlet red).
 
nsper7 said:
In the end it is up to the Pope how their Inauguration/Coronation goes. Personally, if I were Pope, I’d be on the fence between going full hug (feathers and all) or doing something extremely low key (like very somber and plain). I always thought if I were Pope, instead of wearing all that white garb, I’d just wear a standard black cassock adorned with white pips and sash (just as a Bishop’s is adorned in purple and a Cardinal’s in scarlet red).
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Actually, the Pope is not wearing a white cassock, but a SIMAR, which has the oversleeves and shoulder cape.

It dates back to the time of Pius V, who was a Dominican and continued to wear his Dominican habit, which is white. Up till that point, Popes wore red, like the cardinals. (Some items of Papal vesture are still red.)

White cassocks (with appropriate color trim) are allowed in the tropics. In the Arizona heat, I wear a white cassock myself.
 
bpbasilphx said:
Actually, the Pope is not wearing a white cassock, but a SIMAR, which has the oversleeves and shoulder cape.

It dates back to the time of Pius V, who was a Dominican and continued to wear his Dominican habit, which is white. Up till that point, Popes wore red, like the cardinals. (Some items of Papal vesture are still red.)

White cassocks (with appropriate color trim) are allowed in the tropics. In the Arizona heat, I wear a white cassock myself.
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Well, if I were Pope, I would strongly consider just wearing a black simar or cassock with a white sash around the waist. Also, I would not want people kissing my Ring. They can shake hands or give me a hug or, if they wish to be more formal, exchange a blessing (i.e. Priest/Bishop/etc: The Lord be with you, Your Holiness. Pope: And also with you).
 
3Sanctus said:
I think the Sede Gestatoria and the ostrich feathers might be a bit much (although the Holy Father of course can make that decision on his own) but, personally, I find the idea of the Papal Tiara to be beautiful and appropriate. It shows that while he is a spiritual and not a temporal leader, the Vicar of Christ has been appointed by Christ to a position above all temporal leaders.

In fact, it is my understanding that the three bands on the tiara represent this authority. Kings of kingdoms wear a crown of a single band, the Holy Roman Emperor wore a crown with two bands/levels, and the Holy Father wears three bands/levels on his tiara to demonstrate that (despite the spiritual nature of his authority) the Vicar of Christ ultimately stands above the temporal authorities of the world, hence the fact the Holy Roman Emperor was always crowned by the Holy Father.

The traditional use of physical regalia by the leadership of the Church, at whatever level, is a great way for the faithful to be reminded of our place in this world - to say nothing of the simple beauty of such things (Byzantine/Eastern liturgy and vestments, anyone? 🙂 ).
Click to expand...
Yes!
Honest to God, I believe the Sede Gestatoria was so people could see. I don’t know about the ostrich feathers. That is a little much.
Also, the Missa Papae Marcelli is extremely beautiful, and really represents the papacy and sacred music at its finest. No instruments, just pure beauty created by the natural gifts given us by God.
 
nsper7 said:
Well, if I were Pope, I would strongly consider just wearing a black simar or cassock with a white sash around the waist. Also, I would not want people kissing my Ring. They can shake hands or give me a hug or, if they wish to be more formal, exchange a blessing (i.e. Priest/Bishop/etc: The Lord be with you, Your Holiness. Pope: And also with you).
Click to expand...
eh! that sounds like its going the wrong way… this would put less emphasis on the authority and position of the pope and ANY bishop…

Of course the people the pope meets not always kisses his ring because not all of them are Catholic… and those who are catholic just make the gesture of kissing the ring since it is SYMBOLIC so the lips touching the ring/hand isn’t necessary. But the gesture shows respects for his position not just as Pope(since the traditional papal gesture was kissing the feet)… but as bishop… I think going further and further into the world… where we get rid of symbolic gestures and all the external things… just makes us part of the world and not as a witness to the world…

SORRY FOR GETTING OFF TOPIC IF I DID… JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT
 
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