Papal dispensation query

[doubleB]

Have exhausted all searches.

Am seeking confirmation or otherwise, as to whether my memory may be faulty.

problem: Circa 1968 to 1978 I believe a newspaper article detailed at least three couples - Italian ancestry? - who were uncle/neice and/or niece/uncle who were given dispensation to wed each other.

Have checked, over the past few years, back-newspapers on microfiche and emailed the Vatican Library on this matter but have come up empty.

A resolution on this question would be appreciated.

 

[stbruno]

A.9 Canon 1091 (Consanguinity) familyministries-chgo.org/www.inthespiritofcana.org/appendix_A-9.htm

§1. In the direct line of consanguinity, marriage is invalid between all ancestors and descendants, whether they be related legitimately or naturally.
Canon 108: “§1. Consanguinity is calculated through lines and degrees. §2. In the direct line, there are as many degrees as there are generations of persons, not counting the common ancestor. §3. In the collateral line, there are as many degrees as there are persons in both lines together, not counting the common ancestor.”
§2. In the collateral line of consanguinity, marriage is invalid up to and including the fourth degree. *(Note: The concept of consanguinity and affinity have been greatly simplified in the present Code. The most common designation of “consanguinity in the fourth degree in the collateral line” is “first cousins.” This impediment, in the collateral line, can be *dispensed.
However, the Archdiocese will not issue a dispensation for a marriage which is taking place contrary to civil law. In the State of Illinois, first cousins may not marry unless they are of a certain age. Therefore, the Archdiocese will not issue a dispensation for first cousins to marry. This only applies to marriages for which a civil marriage license must be obtained. It does not apply to convalidations where a civil marriage has already taken place.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

1968-1978 was before the 1983 Code of Canon Law.

I know that in certain instances long before 1968, royalty used to marry cousins, but not uncles to nieces. That’s about all I can do to help.

 

[cameron_lansing]

Under the method of calculating relationships in the 1917 code, an uncle and niece were related in the second degree of consanguinity.

Canon Law Digest might or might not have some mention about the situations you reference (There is a case in which a brother - sister married and had children, neither knowing of their relationship, which the pope permitted to remain in peace back in 1966.)

Under the method of calculation in the 1983 code the uncle-niece relationship is in the third degree of consanguinity (even closer than the 4th degree case of first cousins) but usually prohibited and invalid in the civil law of most if not all US states, so the Church here normally would not dispense from it.

In some other jurisdictions (e.g. some Mexican states) it is civilly permissible by permission of a judge, and might be dispensed there.

 

[doubleB]

Was never satisfied with the answer to my original query.

I believe what appeared in the newspaper was a REAL occurence.

I think that the dispensations were given by Pius X (?).

My latest reference to this practice is excerpted below:

Matrimonial dispensations

A matrimonial dispensation is the relaxation in a particular case of an impediment prohibiting or annulling a marriage. It may be granted:
(a) in favour of a contemplated marriage or to legitimize one already contracted;
(b) in secret cases, or in public cases, or in both (see IMPEDIMENTS OF MATRIMONY);
(c) in foro interno only, or in foro externo (the latter includes also the former). Power of dispensing in foro interno is not always restricted to secret cases (casus occulti).

These expressions, as stated above, are by no means identical. We shall classify the most important considerations in this very complex matter, under four heads:
general powers of dispensation;
particular indults of dispensation;
causes for dispensations;
costs of dispensations.

General powers of dispensation

The pope

The pope cannot dispense from impediments founded on Divine law-except, as above described, in the case of vows, espousals, and non-consummated marriages, or valid and consummated marriage of neophytes before baptism (see NEOPHYTES). In doubtful cases, however, he may decide authoritatively as to the objective value of the doubt. In respect of impediments arising from ecclesiastical law the pope has full dispensing power. Every such dispensation granted by him is valid, and when he acts from a sufficient motive it is also licit. He is not wont, however, out of consideration for the public welfare, to exercise this power personally, unless in very exceptional cases, where certain specific impediments are in question. Such cases are error, violence, Holy orders, disparity of worship, public conjugicide, consanguinity in the direct line or in the first degree (equal) of the collateral Line, and the first degree of affinity (from lawful intercourse) in the direct line. As a rule the pope exercises his power of dispensation through the Roman Congregations and Tribunals.

 

[JMJ_coder]

What was the exact relationship? For example, a man’s wife’s sibling’s (brother or sister) daughter – this is an uncle/niece relationship but there really isn’t consanguity between them (the uncle isn’t related by blood (only by marriage) to the parents of the niece). So assuming both were free to marry, I don’t see how, in this example, a dispensation would not generally be granted.

 

[1ke]

Was never satisfied with the answer to my original query.

Perhaps that is because no one feels inclined to do your research for you on something that happened 40 years ago. No names, no dates, no places, nothing but a 10 year span and a “possible” ethnicity. Not much to go on.

If you want to dust off the books and go to a library, great. But, what, exactly, do you expect us to do?

I believe what appeared in the newspaper was a REAL occurence. I think that the dispensations were given by Pius X (?).

It may very well have been a real occurrence. That doesn’t mean that anyone here on CAF knows of it. This was 40 years ago. If you want to go do research in newspaper archives, more power to you.

I don’t understand why this is important. Deacon Cameron gave the answer about whether or not the pope could dispense under the 1917 code of canon law, as to whether he did or not in two particular cases-- we cannot say.

Also, Pius X died in 1914, so I don’t believe he was giving dispensations in 1968.

Pope Paul VI was pope from 1963-1978, with John Paul I and John Paul II also pope in 1978.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

1968-1978 was before the 1983 Code of Canon Law.

I know that in certain instances long before 1968, royalty used to marry cousins, but not uncles to nieces. That’s about all I can do to help.

Actually, Phillip II of Spain married his niece, his sister’s daughter. Gnarly!

 

[wylex4]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone can help me out with a query. I need to find out roughly howlong it would take to apply and be granted a papal dispensation to marry a first cousin in early 1900’s?
I am focusing on Ireland at this time if that helps or makes a difference.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Will Herman