Papal Infalability

[Dave_H]

Hi Folks:
My father and I are discussing papal infalability, and he is not convinced that popes are. This is because of past history ie.selling of indulgences, the way the sexual scandals have been dealt with, how the mass is changed from latin to english and now back to latin etc etc. He basically has trouble with any contraversy that seems to counter the popes ability to handle all things dealing with faith and morals.
Could you please give me some info on this, or point me to a thread that has dealt with this before.
God Bless
Dave H

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Try this from right here in the CA Library:

www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallability/asp

Dang, sorry the link appears to be broken. Go up to the top of the page where it says :Faith’ to the left of Forums; hit that, then look for Library, Tracts, and then God and Papacy; Papal Infallibility is the fifth one on the list.

 

[TomD123]

Papal Infallibility does not mean the Pope is perfect or even good at handling these issues. I trust that God will usually help the Pope to handle these issues however sometimes certain popes are either personally corrupt or just not very good at their job. Papal Infallibility does only include those things dealing with faith and morals, but not the handling of the issues of the Church. Papal Infallibility just means that when the Pope wishes to **define a doctrine **that involves faith or morals, he can without making an error. (note: for the Pope to be speaking infallibly he must intend to define a doctrine and be using his papal authority by speaking “ex cathedra” meaning from the chair of Peter)

Hope this helps

 

[kepha1]

Hi Folks:
My father and I are discussing papal infalability, and he is not convinced that popes are. This is because of past history ie.selling of indulgences, the way the sexual scandals have been dealt with, how the mass is changed from latin to english and now back to latin etc etc. He basically has trouble with any contraversy that seems to counter the popes ability to handle all things dealing with faith and morals.
Could you please give me some info on this, or point me to a thread that has dealt with this before.
God Bless
Dave H

I’m afraid your father is badly catechized. The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, “in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions” (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church’s seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences. No Pope ever declared that the granting of indulgences be abused.
Myths about Indulgences

The way sexual abuses have been handled have nothing to do with infallibility, but the media wants the public to think otherwise. The latest smear campaigns have unsuccessfuly come up with any evidence of wrongdoing by the Pope. And your father needs to understand that during the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s, when most of the mismanaging is reported to have occured, every institution on the planet managed sex abuse cases the same way - internally. What is totally unacceptable today was the norm then. The responsisbility rests with the local bishop, not the Pope. If an FBI agent is found guilty of sex abuse, no one would think of taking the President to court.

Changing the language of the Mass has nothing to do with infallibility, that is a liturgical matter, and nothing to do with faith and morals.

"It is unprecedented in our times to see the kind of criticism leveled against the Holy Father. Calls for Pope Benedict to step down, to retire, to be impeached, etc., are rising not only in number but in intensity of anger. Newspaper columns, comedians, and regular news shows feature guests and commentaries which are shockingly rude and vulgar. The Holy Father recently commented on the pain which personal attacks have caused him, particularly from those within the Church. Common respect and courtesy are becoming, it seems, a thing of the past…

There will be terrifying times in the last days. People will be self-centered and lovers of money, proud, haughty, abusive… irreligious, callous, implacable, slanderous, licentious, brutal, hating what is good… as they make a pretense of religion but deny its power. (2 Tim 3:1-5)

Some news services have even cited an anonymous source within the Vatican curia who is calling this papacy “a disaster.” Yes, if you are an apostate, then Pope Benedict is a disaster. If you are a radical feminist, he is an obstacle. If you are a moral relativist, a liberal theologian, or a lukewarm coward, then indeed, this Pope is a big problem. For he continues to shout from the rooftops the truth which sets us free. Whether it is guaranteeing the sanctity of marriage in North America or exposing the condom-lie in Africa, this Pope has been untiring in teaching the truth. But this truth, like a Smoldering Candle, is quickly disappearing:

In our days, when in vast areas of the world the faith is in danger of dying out like a flame which no longer has fuel, the overriding priority is to make God present in this world and to show men and women the way to God. Not just any god, but the God who spoke on Sinai; to that God whose face we recognize in a love which presses “to the end” (cf. Jn 13:1)—in Jesus Christ, crucified and risen. The real problem at this moment of our history is that God is disappearing from the human horizon, and, with the dimming of the light which comes from God, humanity is losing its bearings, with increasingly evident destructive effects.—
Letter of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI to All the Bishops of the World, March 10, 2009; Catholic Online
markmallett.com/blog/?p=855

 

[MarcoPolo]

As others have said, personal sin is not covered under “infallibility.” Neither is changing disciplinary norms like the language of the mass. It only applies to faith and morals, when he’s exercising the office of St. Peter which he succeeds, and must clearly teach something for the whole Church to hold. Here is the official language of the definition from Vatican I reflecting what I summarized:Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.