Papal infalibility

  • Thread starter Thread starter delberto
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

delberto

Guest
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the authenticity to the popes infalibility?
Has the pope ever had to retract statements made by past popes?
Does the pope truly believe when he speaks it is because he has a greater understanding of the lord than the rest of us mere mortals?

Perhaps it just more nonsense that alienates catholosism against the masses?
 
delberto said:
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the authenticity to the popes infalibility?
Has the pope ever had to retract statements made by past popes?
Does the pope truly believe when he speaks it is because he has a greater understanding of the lord than the rest of us mere mortals?

Perhaps it just more nonsense that alienates catholosism against the masses?
Click to expand...
First off, the Pope is a mere mortal.

Secondly, the Pope only speaks infallibly (ex cathedra) concerning faith and morals and does so infrequently. The Pope speaks infallibly by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and therefore relies not on his own understanding.

Third, when an article of faith or morals becomes dogmatic it is from God and no other succeeding Pope can remove such a statement. For example, the last infallible statement concerning the Immaculate Conception can never be withdrawn since it is a defined Sacred Tradition that has God as its source.

What alienates Catholicism from those who reject the truth is what is revealed in your post. Whether or not it was intentional, ignorance of Catholicism is the number one reason that most reject what we believe. You simply make up your own ā€œcatholicismā€ and then reject your own ideals and that is what constitutes pure nonsenseā€¦teachccd
 
delberto said:
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the authenticity to the popes infalibility?
Has the pope ever had to retract statements made by past popes?
Does the pope truly believe when he speaks it is because he has a greater understanding of the lord than the rest of us mere mortals?

Perhaps it just more nonsense that alienates catholosism against the masses?
Click to expand...
The doctrine of infallibility mainly ensures the Church that no error will enter her teachings on faith and morals.
 
delberto said:
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the authenticity to the popes infalibility?
Has the pope ever had to retract statements made by past popes?
Does the pope truly believe when he speaks it is because he has a greater understanding of the lord than the rest of us mere mortals?

Perhaps it just more nonsense that alienates catholosism against the masses?
Click to expand...
The doctrine of infallibility mainly ensures the Church that no error will enter her teachings on matters of faith and morals.
 
fhansen said:
The doctrine of infallibility mainly ensures the Church that no error will enter her teachings on matters of faith and morals.
Click to expand...
That seems to me to be the equivalent of saying that ā€œlaws against stealing ensure that nothing is stolenā€ā€¦
 
MCS7474 said:
What are you insinuating? lol, what a laughable argument.
Click to expand...
ok how bout this

'the authority of the promises of Christ ensure that no error will enter the teachings of the church in matters of faith and morals ā€™
 
Peregrino said:
That seems to me to be the equivalent of saying that ā€œlaws against stealing ensure that nothing is stolenā€ā€¦
Click to expand...
The doctrine of papal infallibility is not a man-made law.
It is a truth about the protection given to Mother Church by the Holy Spirit.
 
OK, in case anyone was struggling to understand my statement, it probably shouldā€™ve read something like: The gift of infallibility mainly ensures the Church that no error will enter her teachings on matters of faith and morals.
 
delberto said:
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the authenticity to the popes infalibility?
Has the pope ever had to retract statements made by past popes?
Does the pope truly believe when he speaks it is because he has a greater understanding of the lord than the rest of us mere mortals?

Perhaps it just more nonsense that alienates catholosism against the masses?
Click to expand...

I donā€™t believe in the infallibility of Pope, Church, ecumenical Councils, or of the episcopate in union with the Pope, simply because there is no reason to do so. Infallibility in teaching doctrine is in the eye of the beholder, which is why it impresses only those who believe in it.​

I wouldnā€™t call it nonsense, so much as non-sense: if you analyse it, it doesnā€™t work. Itā€™s a nice theory, & itā€™s nice in theory: but itā€™s meaningless in practice - it has never yet stopped a persecution or a massacre: these things can always be rationalised so as to become good & holy acts. So it is useless. šŸ˜¦ And that is just the beginning. IMHO, the definition of 1870 was a classic own goal, a blunder on a colossal scale, a disproof of the very idea that it defined. We have had to put up with the consequences ever since; thanks to Pius IX, we are trapped, so that we are doomed to venerate a colossal falsehood as though it were Godā€™s truth. The moral results of this idea have been disastrous. šŸ˜¦ šŸ˜¦ šŸ˜¦
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

I donā€™t believe in the infallibility of Pope, Church, ecumenical Councils, or of the episcopate in union with the Pope, simply because there is no reason to do so. Infallibility in teaching doctrine is in the eye of the beholder, which is why it impresses only those who believe in it.​

I wouldnā€™t call it nonsense, so much as non-sense: if you analyse it, it doesnā€™t work. Itā€™s a nice theory, & itā€™s nice in theory: but itā€™s meaningless in practice - it has never yet stopped a persecution or a massacre: these things can always be rationalised so as to become good & holy acts. So it is useless. šŸ˜¦ And that is just the beginning. IMHO, the definition of 1870 was a classic own goal, a blunder on a colossal scale, a disproof of the very idea that it defined. We have had to put up with the consequences ever since; thanks to Pius IX, we are trapped, so that we are doomed to venerate a colossal falsehood as though it were Godā€™s truth. The moral results of this idea have been disastrous. šŸ˜¦ šŸ˜¦ šŸ˜¦
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
delberto said:
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the authenticity to the popes infalibility?
Has the pope ever had to retract statements made by past popes?
Does the pope truly believe when he speaks it is because he has a greater understanding of the lord than the rest of us mere mortals?

Perhaps it just more nonsense that alienates catholosism against the masses?
Click to expand...
or perhaps Catholics take seriously and literally Christā€™s promise to Peter when he designated him as the first pope and his promise to send the Holy Spirit to protect the Church and the pope from teaching error in faith and morals. Of course, if you wish to buy a paper cutter and delete sections of scripture such as these, you are free to doubt. Of course if you wish to prove your opinion that papal infallibility is nonsense you will also have to prove instances where popes have taught error when they infallibly proclaimed on faith and morals. That does not mean every utterance and publication bTW nor does it refer to the popeā€™s personal piety or lack of it.

you might also prefer to discuss this issue, which is one of apologetics, on the proper forum and in so doing refer to past threads there on this topic.
 
delberto said:
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the
Click to expand...
Before we can go anywhere with this you must provide proof for this premise.

As you can not there is no need to get into this.

Anyways, this is not a philosophical topic as this can not be determined by reason alone but requires revelation.
 
delberto said:
šŸ™‚
Surely every catholic must have a little doubt as to the authenticity to the popes infalibility?
Has the pope ever had to retract statements made by past popes?
Does the pope truly believe when he speaks it is because he has a greater understanding of the lord than the rest of us mere mortals?

Perhaps it just more nonsense that alienates catholosism against the masses?
Click to expand...
Yes the majority of catholics think it is ridiculous, and they ignore it, and I suspect most of them do not frequent these forums.It was a pope, around 150 years ago, that ā€œdecidedā€ he was protected by the holy spirit in terms of doctrine.

If you look at that period of human history and what was happening culturally, it was the start of the secular era. Darwin came out 10 years previous, and the world was throwing a huge amount of valid and increculous doubt toward the entire religious establishment.

As an attempt to create some order, a pope, claimed he was protected by the holy spirit. It was put to a vote on the council, and most disagreed. It took the pope over a year to convince anyone, and that was eventually achieved by vote through coercion.(you will lose you place as bishop if you donā€™t agree)

The idea that the pope is infailable is a reaction to the world of science, that achieves infailablility due to its very method. Scientists, CAN and WILL lie but the scientific method does not.

The pope, had to find a way to counteract that. That Pope, by modern psychiatry, was also considered insane by the time he died. Most people have no knowlege of how this doctrine came about.

Food for thought šŸ™‚
 
Dameedna said:
.

The pope, had to find a way to counteract that. That Pope, by modern psychiatry, was also considered insane by the time he died.** Most people have no knowlege of how this doctrine came about. **

Food for thought šŸ™‚
Click to expand...
As is evidenced by your post.:thumbsup:
 
If Papal infallibility (the principle) is only 150 years oldā€¦

What made Luther leave the Church?

What caused the great schism of 1054?
  • CB
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top