M
Matt16_18
Guest
Br. Rich sfo
I am glad that we agree that the pope is teaching infallibly in OS that we must accept the infallible doctrine that there can be no women priests! I can at least understand that statement.
No, the Immaculate Conception even though it was held to and believed in the Church was not De Fide until 1854 when Pius IX defined it as such.
Are we talking semantics here? I understand that the solemn declaration of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception was done by the pope speaking ex cathedra, and that this was dogma was declared de fide definita by an exercise of the extraordinary papal Magisterium. But all infallible means is “without error”, therefore, because it has always been true that Mary was immaculately conceived, those who proclaimed that Mary was immaculately conceived were speaking about an infallible doctrine that was drawn from the single deposit of Faith.
*Matt: The pope doesn’t add infallible teachings to the deposit of faith by making ex cathedra statements.
Br. Rich: In a sense yes he does. He does not invent new doctrines but he does solemnly declare a belief as revealed by God and defines it as De Fide.*
CCC 86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
I agree that a pope has the authority to declare that a doctrine under dispute is Infallible®™ by the exercise of the extraordinary papal Magisterium. By doing this, he is guarding the deposit of faith, which is why he was given the charism of infallibility in the first place. But the doctrine that the pope declares to be infallible had to be drawn from the single deposit of the faith, not added to it.
I am glad that we agree that the pope is teaching infallibly in OS that we must accept the infallible doctrine that there can be no women priests! I can at least understand that statement.
No, the Immaculate Conception even though it was held to and believed in the Church was not De Fide until 1854 when Pius IX defined it as such.
Are we talking semantics here? I understand that the solemn declaration of the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception was done by the pope speaking ex cathedra, and that this was dogma was declared de fide definita by an exercise of the extraordinary papal Magisterium. But all infallible means is “without error”, therefore, because it has always been true that Mary was immaculately conceived, those who proclaimed that Mary was immaculately conceived were speaking about an infallible doctrine that was drawn from the single deposit of Faith.
*Matt: The pope doesn’t add infallible teachings to the deposit of faith by making ex cathedra statements.
Br. Rich: In a sense yes he does. He does not invent new doctrines but he does solemnly declare a belief as revealed by God and defines it as De Fide.*
CCC 86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
I agree that a pope has the authority to declare that a doctrine under dispute is Infallible®™ by the exercise of the extraordinary papal Magisterium. By doing this, he is guarding the deposit of faith, which is why he was given the charism of infallibility in the first place. But the doctrine that the pope declares to be infallible had to be drawn from the single deposit of the faith, not added to it.
- I don’t agree with that. Every Infallible teaching of the Church that is to be held as a matter of Faith has been defined in one way or another by the magisterium of the Church.*
- The Pope is exercising the extraordinary papal magisterium when he teaches ex cathedra.*