Papal Infallibility

[magdalina]

Since the Roman dogma of Papal Infallibility was formally defined and promulgated by the First Vatican Council in 1870, how many times - and on what issues - has a sitting Supreme Pontiff brought this authority to bear?

 

[Lamafacaja]

The doctrine of the immaculate conception and the doctrine of the assumption of the blessed mother into heaven, body and soul are the two, I believe.

 

[ajpirc]

Was Pope John Paul II’s statement on the ordination of women infallible?

 

[magdalina]

Was Pope John Paul II’s statement on the ordination of women infallible?

No.

 

[magdalina]

The doctrine of the immaculate conception and the doctrine of the assumption of the blessed mother into heaven, body and soul are the two, I believe.

Yes. Both in 1950, I believe.

Anything more recent?

Anyone?

 

[Corki]

The doctrine of the immaculate conception and the doctrine of the assumption of the blessed mother into heaven, body and soul are the two, I believe.

Those are the two times that a Pope used an ex cathedra pronuoncement to invoke infallibility. But those aren’t the only two infallible teachings by a Pope.

Was Pope John Paul II’s statement on the ordination of women infallible?

Yes. While not an ex cathedra prouncement, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is an infallible teaching.

No.

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrespo.htm

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium

 

[Corki]

Yes. Both in 1950, I believe.

Ineffabilis Deus was in 1854. You are about 100 years off on that one.

 

[magdalina]

Ineffabilis Deus was in 1854. You are about 100 years off on that one.

Perhaps, but as I stated in my OP, I am specifically interested in examples which have occurred SINCE the dogma/doctrine was formally established and promulgated during Vatican 1 in 1870.

Are you saying that there have been NONE?

Was it common for popes to claim infallibility BEFORE the doctrine was established within the Western Church?

 

[laszlo]

Yes. Both in 1950, I believe.

Anything more recent?

Anyone?

The Immaculate Conception 1854 Pius IX, the Assumption 1950 Pius XII.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith defined that Blessed John Paul II statement about the women’s ordination for priesthood of episcopacy is near to dogmatic definition.

 

[Corki]

Perhaps,

No, not perhaps. You stated

Both in 1950, I believe.

The correct dates are 1854 and 1950.

I am specifically interested in examples which have occurred SINCE the dogma/doctrine was formally established and promulgated during Vatican 1 in 1870.

Are you saying that there have been NONE?

No, as noted in post #2, there have been two ex cathedra prounouncements.

There has not been an ex cathedra proclamation since 1950 but there have been many documents containing infallible teaching. As noted,

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is one (1994)

Humanae Vitae is another (1968)

Lumen Gentium (1964)

Casti Canubii (1930) was before 1950 but definately after Vatican I.

There are undoubtedly more, but those are the first that come immediately to mind.

 

[MarkThompson]

Perhaps, but as I stated in my OP, I am specifically interested in examples which have occurred SINCE the dogma/doctrine was formally established and promulgated during Vatican 1 in 1870.

If canonization is infallible – and most theologians think that it is – then every canonization performed since 1870 would be an example.

 

[MusicGuy1979]

So I’ve come across some quotes from Urban II during the crusades saying that people who fought in them would have an automatic remission of all their sins. And I’ve also come across other popes during the crusades that allegedly said the same thing.
Did these popes say or write these things?
And if so, how does that work with the doctrine of infallibility?

Help?

 

[Corki]

So I’ve come across some quotes from Urban II during the crusades saying that people who fought in them would have an automatic remission of all their sins. And I’ve also come across other popes during the crusades that allegedly said the same thing.
Did these popes say or write these things?
And if so, how does that work with the doctrine of infallibility?

Help?

It sounds like a Middle Ages version of a General Absolution. What’s the issue?

 

[Irish_Polock]

"magdalina:

Was Pope John Paul II’s statement on the ordination of women infallible?

No.

It ratified a infallible dogmatic teaching, let us not be ambiguous on the matter.

 

[wsxyz]

ajpirc;7852948:

Was Pope John Paul II’s statement on the ordination of women infallible?

No.

Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.

Responsum: In the affirmative.

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.

The Sovereign Pontiff John Paul II, at the Audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, approved this Reply, adopted in the ordinary session of this Congregation, and ordered it to be published.

Rome, from the offices of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on the Feast of the Apostles SS. Simon and Jude, October 28, 1995.

• Joseph Card. Ratzinger, 
Prefect
• Tarcisio Bertone, 
Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli
, Secretary

 

[MusicGuy1979]

It sounds like a Middle Ages version of a General Absolution. What’s the issue?

The issue is that, if I’m not much mistaken, a general absolution doesn’t apply to future sins.

 

[TrueLight]

How do we know when a Pope is speaking infallibly? Is there some sort of announcement? Or does he sign a pronouncement with "Thus says the Lord?’

 

[Corki]

The issue is that, if I’m not much mistaken, a general absolution doesn’t apply to future sins.

You will need to provide a citation then. I am aware of indulgences attached to joining Crusades. Those don’t apply to future sins either. Please provide the document where a Pope offered forgiveness for future sins.

 

[MusicGuy1979]

You will need to provide a citation then. I am aware of indulgences attached to joining Crusades. Those don’t apply to future sins either. Please provide the document where a Pope offered forgiveness for future sins.

Here:
“All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested.”
Obviously, since he’s telling the man to GO fight, the the dying “in battle against the pagan” will happen in the future – not a the time of the pronouncement. AND it is further explicated by the word “shall” as in “shall [in the future, when the die “in battle”] have immediate remission of their sins”
I’m a catholic, and I believe in papal infallibility. My question here isn’t to disprove the doctrine, but to reconcile it with this statement.

 

[Corki]

Here:
“All who die by the way, whether by land or by sea, or in battle against the pagans, shall have immediate remission of sins. This I grant them through the power of God with which I am invested.”
Obviously, since he’s telling the man to GO fight, the the dying “in battle against the pagan” will happen in the future – not a the time of the pronouncement. AND it is further explicated by the word “shall” as in “shall [in the future, when the die “in battle”] have immediate remission of their sins”
I’m a catholic, and I believe in papal infallibility. My question here isn’t to disprove the doctrine, but to reconcile it with this statement.

But this is just like the general absolution given to soldiers as they go into battle today. It also fits the definition of dying for the faith, which I believe has always carried a plenary indulgence. In either case, the citation you provided does not seem to be an invocation of papal infallibility but rather the exercise of his powers of absolution.