Papal Infallibility

[MusicGuy1979]

But this is just like the general absolution given to soldiers as they go into battle today. It also fits the definition of dying for the faith, which I believe has always carried a plenary indulgence. In either case, the citation you provided does not seem to be an invocation of papal infallibility but rather the exercise of his powers of absolution.

Those were some of the possibilities that I considered. Seems thin, just because if someone dies for the faith, like st. Stephen, he doesn’t need a pope to make a pronouncement saying “by the power vested in me” etc – this would be so by virtue of the person being a martyr. If, on the other hand, the topic is absolution, then we’re going back to the problem of absolution for future sins.
I guess, it may be irrelevant because one of the criterias for infallibility is that the pope address the faith with the intent to define a doctrine – if memory serves me correctly – and I don’t think such criteria is fulfilled here. So I tend to agree with the last point more than the previous two, I think.
I also believe that there are 5 versions of this speech, and not all of them carry this saying. But the source for this one seems to be trustworthy.

 

[Corki]

Those were some of the possibilities that I considered. Seems thin, just because if someone dies for the faith, like st. Stephen, he doesn’t need a pope to make a pronouncement saying “by the power vested in me” etc – this would be so by virtue of the person being a martyr. If, on the other hand, the topic is absolution, then we’re going back to the problem of absolution for future sins.
I guess, it may be irrelevant because one of the criterias for infallibility is that the pope address the faith with the intent to define a doctrine – if memory serves me correctly – and I don’t think such criteria is fulfilled here. So I tend to agree with the last point more than the previous two, I think.
I also believe that there are 5 versions of this speech, and not all of them carry this saying. But the source for this one seems to be trustworthy.

There are two issues here. Not everything a Pope proclaims is infallible. I don’t know the context of the quote you provided, nor am I an expert in the Church of the Middle Ages. Setting aside the problem of authenticating the quote in the first place, the pronouncement may have been a call to arms or a farewell to the troops. Neither of those would likely be considered infalllible. In fact, I can’t imagine that a pronouncement would be infallible if it was not addressed to the whole Church.

As for St. Stephen, he was an early martyr. In the times since the more formal cannonization process has been in place, many martyrs have been proclaimed as such as part of the Church’s canonization rituals.

But, this could have been a valid use of the Pope’s power to loose and bind. That would be a topic for another thread.

 

[MusicGuy1979]

Yeah, I think we’re of one mind here. I don’t think this qualifies as an infallible pronouncement either way.
Thanks!