H
Hegesippus
Guest
If the Pope is infallible, What is the purpose of an Ecumenical Council?,
- Status
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
The Pope is only infallible in certain circumstances when he chooses to invoke his charism of infallibility. Infallibility does not mean that he just gets teachings out of nowhere from the Holy Spirit or something. The councils think and pray to come to better understandings. Only once an idea has been developed can it be infallibly defined.
H
Hegesippus
Guest
I understand that aspect of papal infalliblity. For example, (Karl Keating gave this argument in Catholicism and Fundamentalism), If someone is infallible in math and given 100 math problems, How many math problems does that person have to answer to be infallible? The answer would be 0. But since most of the decrees made by ecumenical councils relate to faith and morals, and if the pope is infallible on faith and morals, why have a council?
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
To give the Pope things to make infallible statements about.
H
Hegesippus
Guest
Were the dogmas of the Immaculate conception and the Assumption of the Blessed Mother pronounced at a Council?
H
Hegesippus
Guest
Another point, the early ecumenical councils were not attended by the pope but, rather representatives of him.
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
I dont believe so. To begin with, infallible statements are on things that are a part of the Church’s Tradition. They are not new things.
Councils come together because of a number of reasons. One is that these things that are a part of the Tradition are discussed and thought about and prayed about and they are developed (not changed) at the councils. These ideas are sometimes defined infallibly.
However, another reason councils come together is simply to catch up with the times. That doesn’t mean to change the Church teachings based on culture. It does however mean to reevaluate Church practices and customs based on the changing culture. The councils address issues such as this (things like what language to have Mass in or whether to require abstinence on Fridays or whatnot) as well, not just imfallible statements.
A
Aaron_I
Guest
Infallibility guarantees that the pope will not error in his teaching, but it does not guarantee that he will know what teaching to make. An ecumenical council serves to come up determine teachings. It is up to the Pope to determine whether or not they are valid.
N
NotWorthy
Guest
But the Pope isn’t the only one who can speak infallibly. The Magisterium also has the power to “bind and loose”.
Notworthy
Notworthy
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
Just in case anybody doesn’t know, the Magesterium would for all intents and purposes be the council, because it is all of the Bishops teaching in union.
K
kleary
Guest
Forgot “With the Pope”.
The Pope can speak Ex-Cathedra - Infallible even with 100 percent of all the Bishops dissagreeing with him.
Ken
B
bear06
Guest
Here are a couple of articles which might help you.
newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/04423f.htm
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Are you sure about that? If the Pope and the Magisterium taught contrary teachings, and they are both infallible, wouldn’t that cause a tear a hole in the universe?
Notworthy
H
Hegesippus
Guest
O
otm
Guest
Ecumenical coucils have a number of purposes, among them to confront heresies, make determinations concerning various practices (or disciplines), and advise the pope on various matters.
The pope, throughout history, has been the final arbiter of matters within the Church, but it was not until recent history that papal infallibility was defined. Accepted in practice before, but not defined.
If you want more information concerning why there are ecumenical councils, you might want to look at the document of Vatican 2 which is concerned about the collegiality of the bishops with the pope. that may she light on how the Church looks at the issue of infallibility.
There are three areas of infallibility: the pope in making an infallible pronouncement (it has happened twice, with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Mary); an ecumenical council making an infallible statement (generally with the pope present, but if not, then ratified by the pope at a later date, as occured in history), and the authentic teaching of the Church through the Magisterium - the teaching of the bishops in union with the Church and the pope, as shown by the issue, for example, of the moral issue of the grave sinfulness of taking an innocent life intentionally; an issue never formally defined by the Church either by a pope or an ecumenical council, but held by the Church since its inception.
B
bear06
Guest
Yes, this is correct. The pope can speak infallibly and it is still infallible if everyone on the planet agrees with him. The rest of the Magisterium can only be infallible when they are teaching in union with the pope. No pope, no infalliblity. Ecumenical councils on infallible on when the pope ratifies the council. The articles I posted give the organs of infallability.Are you sure about that? If the Pope and the Magisterium taught contrary teachings, and they are both infallible, wouldn’t that cause a tear a hole in the universe?
Notworthy
L
Lazerlike42
Guest
Remember - the Pope is a bishopAre you sure about that? If the Pope and the Magisterium taught contrary teachings, and they are both infallible, wouldn’t that cause a tear a hole in the universe?
Notworthy
B
bear06
Guest
Argh! Meant disagrees. To late to edit!
M
msproule
Guest
…and likewise the Pope can essentially “throw out” what a Council declares. This has happened in history, as well. Therefore, we add the statement “in union with the Pope” in applying infallibility to a declaration from a Council.
(Consider that an instant patch in the hole in the universe!)
(Consider that an instant patch in the hole in the universe!)
N
NotWorthy
Guest
Whewwww!!!
Notworthy
- Status