Papal Tiara

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Catholic4Jesus said:
At the same time, He didn’t command that He be anointed. He chose to do it out of courtesy. Christ, despite the fact that He was God, was an example of humilty and generosity that we should all imitate.
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But it was, at the end of it, right to anoint him…
 
But we arent talking about anointing. We are talking about crowning.

Our Lord was crowned with thorns, not an elaborate tiara.
And yes, both He and Our Lady were the prime examples of profound humility.
 
Marie5890 said:
But we arent talking about anointing. We are talking about crowning.

Our Lord was crowned with thorns, not an elaborate tiara.
And yes, both He and Our Lady were the prime examples of profound humility.
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But the Crowning serves, as did the anointing, to provide dignity to Christ and his Church. The Tiara is not about temporal power - which no Pope has had since Italian Reunification. It is a symbol of the authority of the Church.

Like I said, don’t you see a problem that we provide more honor and dignity to secular, elected heads of State (to say nothing of worldly monarchs) than we do to the man who represents the one true church?

We’ve tried casual faith. We’ve tried it for half a century. It hasn’t helped us. It won’t help us. Its time to go back to the dignity and majesty that is due to the Church.
 
mburn16 said:
But the Crowning serves, as did the anointing, to provide dignity to Christ and his Church. The Tiara is not about temporal power - which no Pope has had since Italian Reunification. It is a symbol of the authority of the Church.

Like I said, don’t you see a problem that we provide more honor and dignity to secular, elected heads of State (to say nothing of worldly monarchs) than we do to the man who represents the one true church?

We’ve tried casual faith. We’ve tried it for half a century. It hasn’t helped us. It won’t help us. Its time to go back to the dignity and majesty that is due to the Church.
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No I dont. We arent to imitate the world or the way it honors and gives dignity to the secular.
We are to imitate Christ. Not the world.

And it’s not like prior to the past half century that the Church was better off.
I have no desire to romanticize the Church’s past.
 
There should be a happy medium. I think the Tiara isn’t going to fly anymore. Ultramontanism isn’t something that appeals to most clerics anymore so I doubt the secular trappings (which although the Triregno represents Christ as Priest, Prophet, King, is ultimately) including the Sedia and flabellum ever come back.

However, liturgical sartorial eloquence should remain and be enhanced. Like the fanon for example. Because, liturgically, they give glory to God.

I do believe Bl John XXIII used the Tiara to celebrate St Chrysostum’s Divine Liturgy though.
 
Its a shame, if you’re correct. Its almost as if we’ve become ashamed to assert church authority. Maybe its an unintended consequence of the church/state separation the west has adopted, but while the liturgy most certainly should be reverent…dispensing with the “secular trappings” (a term I do not agree with) seems only a few steps short of hiding ourselves back behind closed doors and practicing our faith in secret without attempting to shape outside events.
 
The Triregnum should definitely return as well as the Papal Coronation.
 
It’s funny that we associate splendor with secular trappings. What do presidents and PMs wear? They don’t wear fancy clothes, they wear rather demure business suits, rarely throwing on morning dress or white tie. I don’t think the world associates splendorious sartorialisms with secular government anymore.
 
Indeed, even His Royal Highness, the Grand Duke of Luxembourg no longer adorns his royal image with that of finery and gilded sashes, but with a suit. In this respect, the Princes and Monarchs, be them recognized or pretenders, should respect their Thrones enough to avail themselves to traditional dress. Similarly, the Shepherd King of Rome, Our Sovereign and Supreme Pontiff, should likewise show the dignity and reverence due to him.

Naturally, I am a poor sinner, certainly not worthy to entreat the Holy Father with my advice. However I look in awe at images of Pius XII and Pius IX, both of blessed memory, both adorned with the full trappings of that most Serene Office and Patrimony. Indeed, that soft and pleasant picture of a glimmering triregnum should rally every Catholic heart to pray for our Most Holy Father, the Pope.
 
I think that’s the point. All of these accoutrements are considered unseemly today.
 
BillyT926 said:
I think that’s the point. All of these accoutrements are considered unseemly today.
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They are most certainly not. We surely are NOT suggesting the next Pope dress in designer blue jeans and a graphic muscle tee shirt?
 
Kevin812 said:
They are most certainly not. We surely are NOT suggesting the next Pope dress in designer blue jeans and a graphic muscle tee shirt?
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No, but sandals and a simple monk’s habit might do a lot for the reputation of the church and express the humility of a servant of God.
 
There is a vast middle ground between a tiara and a muscle tee. I think our recent Popes have manged to tread that quite well. And I imagine the new Pope will do the same.

I also do not think that deciding to restore the tiara is necessarily going to make the jaded secular world suddenly pay any more attention to the Pope than they do now. We all need to pour our prayers and love into the blackness of the modern world to fill it with love and light. That will do much more good than the Pope wearing a triple-tiara.
 
Zeno11 said:
No, but sandals and a simple monk’s habit might do a lot for the reputation of the church and express the humility of a servant of God.
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Sandals and a habit for the POPE? During MASS?
 
Bl_Pope_Pius_IX said:
Sandals and a habit for the POPE? During MASS?
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Maybe not the sandals, but there certainly is precedent for the habit:
Pius V died on 1 May 1572. He was beatified in 1672 and canonized in 1712. As a tribute to the sanctity of the Dominican pontiff, who refused to shed his community’s habit on his election to the papacy, his successors have donned the now-famous white cassock ever since.
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malphono said:
Maybe not the sandals, but there certainly is precedent for the habit:
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But not during mass. I’m sure His Holiness wore a stole chasuble, etc. during Mass. And the Tiara is not to be worn just willy-nilly! It is to be worn following set rubrics that prescribe it’s use during processions, etc.
 
The Pope isn’t a monk. He isn’t a simple Priest. He isn’t just another Bishop. He is THE POPE. He is the head of the Universal Church and Christ’s Vicar on Earth. And the sooner we stop beating around the bush about the spiritual and moral authority the Pope has, the better off we will be. The only thing the church has lost in the last 100 years was control over the Papal States…but as Pope John Paul II made it quite clear, the Tiara was not a symbol of temporal power. So I question what exactly it is that made the Tiara unacceptable today.

Listening to those who are always wishing the church would humble itself below its place probably won’t do us any good, and I very much doubt it would win over those who seek it.
 
Kevin812 said:
They are most certainly not. We surely are NOT suggesting the next Pope dress in designer blue jeans and a graphic muscle tee shirt?
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Most clerics and many people do see them that way. I’m not saying I do, but many consider these as gauche
 
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