Papal tiara

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I read elsewhere that Pope Paul VI was the last to wear the Papal tiara, that at the end of Vatican II he laid it down as a gesture of renouncing temporal ambition. Does that mean they will never wear it again? Can’t say I like that much. I like the papal tiara. It’s neat. 😦
 
kesa82 said:
I read elsewhere that Pope Paul VI was the last to wear the Papal tiara, that at the end of Vatican II he laid it down as a gesture of renouncing temporal ambition. Does that mean they will never wear it again? Can’t say I like that much. I like the papal tiara. It’s neat. 😦
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Can you imagine the impression it would give if our current Holy Father or a future one were to take up again the practice of wearing the tiara??? It’s rather ostentatious and a symbol of worldly power as well - and we all know what problems it has caused in Church history when Popes were major secular rulers as well.
 
The Wikipedia article on the papal tiara is also excellent.

As I have posted previously, I do have to wonder how the people of Milan felt about Paul VI, their former archbishop, just giving away the tiara they, following a traidition, had paid for as a gift to him and to the Church. Once someone renounces a coronation (it could have been modified rather than abolished) and its accoutrements, it is virtually impossible for the successor to take it up again. The current pope is known to “dress to the nines” as it were and more power to him. I have to guess that if he had his druthers, the tiara would still be in use. Still, he is the pope who has replaced the tiara with the mitre in the papal coat of arms, a sure symbol that this neat thing is gone forever except in the Vatican museums.
 
LilyM said:
Can you imagine the impression it would give if our current Holy Father or a future one were to take up again the practice of wearing the tiara??? It’s rather ostentatious and a symbol of worldly power as well - and we all know what problems it has caused in Church history when Popes were major secular rulers as well.
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I see, and appreciate your point, and it is a good point.
  • However the rule of thumb that I follow in regard to material objects is to deliberately limit it to a judgement of whether I think it is pretty or ugly. The tricky thing about symbols is that they can mean whatever the observer wants them to mean.
    I think the swastika is a good example. The swastika appeared in art at least 5,000 years ago, it has symbolised various myriad things too numerous to list, even the church used it, but this artist, to take just one example, is basically precluded from using it in a desighn because of some obscure German history that most people aren’t really familiar with anyway.
    ( warning ; I have studied German history since I was 8, and I could easily whip out a ten question quiz of BASIC questions about Nazism that I’m CERTAIN 98% of the population would flunk. )
    While we are on that subject, I have seen a lot of things disappear because of some association with some vague notion of negative connection and connotation.
    Likewise sam brown belts and riding boots disappeared because the fascists liked them.
    Too some, milatary close order drill is a refined art like ballet, and the goose-step was a further refinement of the refined art.
    But, no more goose-step, the totalitarians of yesturday liked it.
    It wouldn’t surprise me if in my life time short hair, being clean shaven , having un-tatooed skin, and no piercings, became rare or non-existent because these are all symbolic of the terrible caucasian west.
    THE thing I like most about being Scottish is that I get to wear a comfortable and pretty skirt because it isn’t a skirt but a kilt-but of course some ignorant boob is going to call it a skirt anyway - in which case I get to look down my nose at him for his ignorant conceit. 😃
  • my spin on the bad old papal states is colored by the fact that the Vatican city is the only temporal power I would trust with 5 cents. But the Swiss Gaurd only excepts swiss, and this truncated version of the papal states doesn’t except emigrants for naturalization. ( I’m not Joking. )
  • but I otherwise conceed that it is a good thing that the church has gotten out of the bloody, filthy secular state buisiness.
  • then I think there is something to be said for especially preserving images of a not so glorious past.
    I am no admirer of the Bolsheviks, I hate them venomously, but I strongly oppose doing away with Lenin’s tomb. They say they want to get rid of it for this or that high-minded reason, foey! They want to white wash their history and forget thir own failings. And in that sense, getting rid of Lenin’s tomb is the WORST thing they can do.
    So the tiara has been replaced with the mitre?
    Hmm, I would have thought that the mitre had the same connotations???
  • but I like the mitre too ! - so surely it will go too!
    But I must bow to the judgement of the Holy See. 👍
 
kesa82 said:
I I have studied German history since I was 8, and I could easily whip out a ten question quiz of BASIC questions about Nazism that I’m CERTAIN 98% of the population would flunk.:
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Do bring on your quiz; I invite the challenge. And while you are at it, not to sound too insulting, hon, do learn how to write. :rolleyes:
 
LilyM said:
Can you imagine the impression it would give if our current Holy Father or a future one were to take up again the practice of wearing the tiara??? It’s rather ostentatious and a symbol of worldly power as well - and we all know what problems it has caused in Church history when Popes were major secular rulers as well.
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It’d make him look a lot more prominate when seated/standing near on of the Patriarchs that’s for sure. And it’d also give irrefutable evidence that it doesn’t have 666 on it as the Anti-Catholic Fundamentalists claim. Seems win-win to me.

Catholig
 
lak611 said:
Marian, thank you for the great article! Personally, I like the fact that the Holy Fathers have stopped wearing the tiaras. It shows their humility, which is what Jesus told the apostles, especially St. Peter in John 13:1-20.
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Does this mean that all popes prior to Vatican II who wore the tiara were not humble?
 
kesa82 said:
I read elsewhere that Pope Paul VI was the last to wear the Papal tiara, that at the end of Vatican II he laid it down as a gesture of renouncing temporal ambition. Does that mean they will never wear it again? Can’t say I like that much. I like the papal tiara. It’s neat. 😦
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I agree. It should return.
It is a wondeful symbol of the Pope’s threefold authority.
 
Catholig said:
It’d make him look a lot more prominate when seated/standing near on of the Patriarchs that’s for sure. And it’d also give irrefutable evidence that it doesn’t have 666 on it as the Anti-Catholic Fundamentalists claim. Seems win-win to me.

Catholig
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I’m not sure…would it be worn on such ocassions?
 
AJV,

They have their own hats, which are quite magnificent I might add, so I don’t think they’d be offended.

Catholig
 
Catholig said:
AJV,

They have their own hats, which are quite magnificent I might add, so I don’t think they’d be offended.

Catholig
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No, not from that point…but from when each is worn- you know, like when you should wear academic dress, when you should wear what choir dress, and so on.
 
AJV said:
No, not from that point…but from when each is worn- you know, like when you should wear academic dress, when you should wear what choir dress, and so on.
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Oh I see…then I dont think so.

I think the Papal Tiara is used in only the circumstances when a bishop would normally use a Mitre.

That is…in procession at the beginning of a Mass…during a Confirmation…from the balcony of a Church…and during the Urbi et Orbi or other blessings (the last one is a Pope example not a bishop one of course)
 
Missa_Solemnis said:
Oh I see…then I dont think so.

I think the Papal Tiara is used in only the circumstances when a bishop would normally use a Mitre.

That is…in procession at the beginning of a Mass…during a Confirmation…from the balcony of a Church…and during the Urbi et Orbi or other blessings (the last one is a Pope example not a bishop one of course)
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Doesn’t a bishop wear a biretta when entering the Church before vesting and at the end when recessing after de-vesting?
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Catholig:
Οικουμενικό Πατριαρχείο
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I understand what you are saying:) - I’m merely wondering about whether the tiara can indeed be worn with winter mozetta, and secondly whether that would be one of the occasions where the tiara (and presumably the papal mantle also) is worn

Does anyone has a handy copy of Nainfa on hand?
 
UKcatholicGuy said:
Does this mean that all popes prior to Vatican II who wore the tiara were not humble?
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Nope. Do current and future popes have to keep wearing it forever so as to not imply criticism?

I think it’s well for the Holy Father to not use the tiara or the sedia gestatoria regularly. It wouldn’t be inappropriate for him to wear if he were celebrating the Divine Liturgy. But I think it’s good we no longer have coronations.
 
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