Papal use of 1st person pronouns: "I" vs royal "We"

[Digitonomy]

In the book “How to Be Pope: What to Do and Where to Go Once You’re in the Vatican” it is stated

John Paul I, the self-effacing “smiling pontiff,” was, in fact, the first to cease using the royal “we” when speaking about himself. John Paul II continued this practice, keeping to the far more humble first-person “I,” while Benedict XVI has returned to the traditional form of papal self-reference, again employing the royal plural.

However, the book is not specific as to what occasions it’s referring to. Would such use be in encyclicals, motu proprios, apostolic exhortations, homilies, interviews?

 

[MarcoPolo]

I know when the Pope makes a doctrinal statement, I believe the term “we hold” or something to that effect is used.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

A book I just finished reading by Pope Benedict XVI, “Christianity and the Crises of Culture” and from a priest who gave a talk at my retreat this year on Pope Benedict, he is very much into the concepts of faith as a community of believers, verses and individual faith.

This might have something to do with the “we” aspect that he uses.

Now, wonder how this will fit with the new Liturgical Text when its comes out, because they’ve changed the Profession of Faith from, “We Believe” to “I Believe.”

Jim

 

[jdnrite01]

Here’s an interesting side about the “royal we” found in the Wikipedia article Majestic Plural:

Admiral Hyman G. Rickover, most likely quoting Mark Twain, told a subordinate who used the royal we:“Three groups are permitted that usage: pregnant women, royalty, and schizophrenics. Which one are you?”

What Twain actually said is:

Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial ‘we’.

 

[scylla]

I am much happier seeing the use of “We” as it connotes a unity of belief between the Pope and previous Popes.

Since the Pope is the guardian of the truth given to him by the Church, he has to preserve it and promote it. This in union with the Popes before him. So we is more appropriate, as he should be the defender of the truth for the Church. Using the Papal “We” is more humble than using I as it shows deference to the Church’s teaching, rather than personal promotion.

Humility is not about making yourself look bad or weak, it is about being strong enough to put down one’s pride and submit to truth. In the same way using “We” is submitting to the thought of the Church, the previous popes and promoting unity with the truth. (I would strongly disagree with the quote which, seems to imply the opposite, as if "We is not humble)

In Christ
Scylla

P.S.
“We” is humble even in our recitation of the creed as our belief comes from Christ, not from our own personal opinion of God, so we must be united in belief with all Christians.

 

[japhy]

A book I just finished reading by Pope Benedict XVI, “Christianity and the Crises of Culture” and from a priest who gave a talk at my retreat this year on Pope Benedict, he is very much into the concepts of faith as a community of believers, versus an individual faith.

I’ve heard that Popes use “We” because they are speaking, not only as themselves, but in communion with their predecessors; in other words, this is not just a Pope speaking, it is the very office of the papacy speaking.

Now, wonder how this will fit with the new Liturgical Text when its comes out, because they’ve changed the Profession of Faith from, “We Believe” to “I Believe.”

I don’t think the two are connected, really. And as for the Profession of Faith, both the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds use the first person singular; the Greek and Latin, properly translated, read “I believe…”. In Latin, it’s Credo; if it were “we believe”, it would have been written as Credimus.

So the “they” who’ve “changed the Profession of Faith” is actually the ICEL who mistranslated it a few decades ago. The “they” who are now correcting the Profession of Faith is also the ICEL (although acting under the direction of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

 

[scylla]

In the book “How to Be Pope: What to Do and Where to Go Once You’re in the Vatican” it is stated However, the book is not specific as to what occasions it’s referring to. Would such use be in encyclicals, motu proprios, apostolic exhortations, homilies, interviews?

I am pretty sure that Pope doesn’t use “We” when he is asked if he would like some sugar in his tea.

I would suppose the book is talking about times when the Pope is talking about religious belief, as you said encyclicals, motu proprios, homilies, etc…

Scylla

 

[jdnrite01]

Now, wonder how this will fit with the new Liturgical Text when its comes out, because they’ve changed the Profession of Faith from, “We Believe” to “I Believe.”

Jim

The change in the Creed during Mass is the result of an attempt to render the English translation of the Roman Missal more faithful to the official Latin version. The Creed in Latin begins with the word “Credo,” which is the first person singular for “I believe.” On the other hand, “We believe” - which is more faithful to the original Greek approved by the Nicaean Council and the Council of Constantinople - would be rendered in Latin as “Credimus,” which is in the first person plural. The change isn’t related to the “Royal We” at all, although I know it can be confusing!

 

[jdnrite01]

And as for the Profession of Faith, both the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds use the first person singular; the Greek and Latin, properly translated, read “I believe…”

The Greek of the Creed approved at both Councils states: “Πιστεύομεν … ὁμολογοῦμεν … προσδοκοῦμεν” meaning we “believe … confess … await.” The difference between “I believe” and “We believe” is simply semantic and without theological significance. After all, a whole bunch of people who individually profess “I believe” blossoms into a collective “We believe.” Do I make any sense or am I rambling again?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Greek of the Creed approved at both Councils states: “Πιστεύομεν … ὁμολογοῦμεν … προσδοκοῦμεν” meaning we “believe … confess … await.” The difference between “I believe” and “We believe” is simply semantic and without theological significance. After all, a whole bunch of people who individually profess “I believe” blossoms into a collective “We believe.” Do I make any sense or am I rambling again?

You make perfect sense to me.

Jim

 

[japhy]

The Greek of the Creed approved at both Councils states: “Πιστεύομεν … ὁμολογοῦμεν … προσδοκοῦμεν” meaning we “believe … confess … await.” The difference between “I believe” and “We believe” is simply semantic and without theological significance. After all, a whole bunch of people who individually profess “I believe” blossoms into a collective “We believe.” Do I make any sense or am I rambling again?

I stand corrected. It seems that early creeds (both in Latin and Greek) were plural in form. The Latin of the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds, as found in the Roman Missal, are singular though.

 

[jdnrite01]

It seems that early creeds (both in Latin and Greek) were plural in form. The Latin of the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds, as found in the Roman Missal, are singular though.

Thanks for that information! I didn’t realize that the original Latin versions of the Creeds were also formulated in the first person plural. I agree, though, that the Missale Romanum uses the first person singular, and accordingly, the English translation should be “I believe.” So long as the English version of the Missal is in sync with the Latin text, it makes no difference to me whether we say “I believe” or “We believe.”

 

[Brendan]

I stand corrected. It seems that early creeds (both in Latin and Greek) were plural in form. The Latin of the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds, as found in the Roman Missal, are singular though.

The Nicean\Constantinople Creed was phased in the plural because it was the bishops speaking as one.

We (should) recite the Creed in the singlular, because we are speaking for ourselves. We cannot speak for those in the pew next to us.

 

[AJV]

In the book “How to Be Pope: What to Do and Where to Go Once You’re in the Vatican” it is stated However, the book is not specific as to what occasions it’s referring to. Would such use be in encyclicals, motu proprios, apostolic exhortations, homilies, interviews?

I don’t think the Pope has used it in homilies 9at least not all of them). It has been used in his encyclicals, motu proprios, apostolic exhortations and official letters. But don’t go hunting for it throguh the English translations because they are all changed to the singular.

We (should) recite the Creed in the singlular, because we are speaking for ourselves. We cannot speak for those in the pew next to us.

i don’t think there is any real difference, because in some of the Churches, “We” is used, and in others (like the Roman, “I” is used.