Papal Vestments?

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This isn’t a huge theological question (at least I don’t think. The older popes (John XXIII, Pius XII, etc) used to be seen wearing the cardinals’ cassock with the ermine trim like the Renaissance popes and such. I’ve only seen John Paul II wear the white outfit. Was changing to this part of the abandonment of the tiara?
 
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J_Chrysostomos:
This isn’t a huge theological question (at least I don’t think. The older popes (John XXIII, Pius XII, etc) used to be seen wearing the cardinals’ cassock with the ermine trim like the Renaissance popes and such. I’ve only seen John Paul II wear the white outfit. Was changing to this part of the abandonment of the tiara?
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It was an overall change to a simpler church garb especially in the use of less costly garments which reminded one more of the past temporal power of the popes rather than their pastoral. There are differences of opinion though, trains on the red taffeta cassocks had been taken off prior to John XXIII’s accession – he immediately put them back on, but they never caught on with his bishops and faded slowly away. John also favored a cap much like you see Venetian doges wearing - no one else did though.

JPII had never had much of anything in the way of material wealth and by the time he became pope he dressed as he always had, immaculately clean, neat and as simple as he could manage.
 
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HagiaSophia:
It was an overall change to a simpler church garb especially in the use of less costly garments which reminded one more of the past temporal power of the popes rather than their pastoral. There are differences of opinion though, trains on the red taffeta cassocks had been taken off prior to John XXIII’s accession – he immediately put them back on, but they never caught on with his bishops and faded slowly away. John also favored a cap much like you see Venetian doges wearing - no one else did though.

JPII had never had much of anything in the way of material wealth and by the time he became pope he dressed as he always had, immaculately clean, neat and as simple as he could manage.
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Paul VI was the first Pope to really abandon the traditional “monarchical” garb of the Papacy. The first act he did was the remove the Tiara and lay on the steps of the altar of St. Peter’s Basilica. Then JP I refused to be crowned, and initially refused the Sedia Gestatoria, but was later talked out of it.
It’s a paradigm shift, and even though I love pomp, I think it’s probably for the best that the Popes diminished their temporal power over landholdings and increased their pastoral power and spiritual authority. It’s an emphasis on the Holy Father as Servant of the Servants of God.
 
It’s interesting to see the Tiara of Paul VI at the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception. It’s pretty, but you can easily tell that it’s much less ornate than the traditional Tiaras used to be.
 
The white cassock/soutane came about with the election of a Dominican to the papacy (I forget who). He just kept his white habit and it caught on, though it doesn’t look Dominican.
 
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BillyT92679:
It’s a paradigm shift, and even though I love pomp, I think it’s probably for the best that the Popes diminished their temporal power over landholdings and increased their pastoral power and spiritual authority. It’s an emphasis on the Holy Father as Servant of the Servants of God.
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But the pope still is the sovereign ruler of the Vatican city-state, and the church defends the Vatican’s independent status as a necessary bulwark of religious freedom. I wish the popes would still we the tiara, even if only for a few symbolic moments (like Paul VI), to remind us that he still does have some secular authority. And I love the pomp, too!
 
Actually, if I am understanding the question, I am pretty sure the Pope still wears these. The white cassock is every day wear in every circumstance. The short red cape with overstole is considered “diplomatic dress,” red silk in summer, ermine-trimmed in winter. I have a painting of JPII in diplomatic dress, and I presume the artist would not have painted “made up” clothes. The doge hat favored by John XXIII is part of the diplomatic dress, but I have not seen a Pope since him wear it. I think diplomatic dress tends to be worn only on the most ceremonial occasions were there is no media, and so we do not see it on the Pope as much as in former times.
 
The Pope of Rome never wears a “cassock” or “soutane.” At least not in public…
 
Vox Borealis:
But the pope still is the sovereign ruler of the Vatican city-state, and the church defends the Vatican’s independent status as a necessary bulwark of religious freedom. I wish the popes would still we the tiara, even if only for a few symbolic moments (like Paul VI), to remind us that he still does have some secular authority. And I love the pomp, too!
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The Tiara is nice, and the Theological significance of Christ as Priest, Prophet, and King, which the Triregnum represented, is good.
However, it was never a Liturgical headpiece, like the Mitre is. It’s only ceremonial.
Do I think Popes should be crowned? The ultramontane in me says yes, but the humble servant in me says no. Same thing for the Sedia Gestatoria and the Flabellum.
 
Pariah Pirana:
A simar.
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Thanks. I should have known that. What’s the etymology and why is it called a simar when it’s exactly like a cassock?
 
It doesn’t really look like a normal soutane. More like a habit.

By the way, John Paul II also used the red cape, even an ankle long one.
 
Pariah Pirana:
The Pope of Rome never wears a “cassock” or “soutane.” At least not in public…
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He wears what all Latin Rite bishops wear: a cassock, only it’s white. I googled simar, PP, and couldn’t find anything as ref. to priestly dress.
 
Yeah, he did wear a mozetta, but he also had an old-school ankle-long red cape. He wore it practically all the time during one of his pilgrimages to Poland.

The white vestment isn’t really cut like a standard cassock. It looks more like what priests from religious orders wear. Ever seen a secular priests wear the black version?
 
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chevalier:
Yeah, he did wear a mozetta, but he also had an old-school ankle-long red cape. He wore it practically all the time during one of his pilgrimages to Poland.

The white vestment isn’t really cut like a standard cassock. It looks more like what priests from religious orders wear. Ever seen a secular priests wear the black version?
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Yes, a monsignor who wore his all the time, the rector of the Cathedral I used to attend. None of my bishops has ever appeared at an event which I attended in anything other than liturgical wear or a clerical suit. I got the information out of an old encyclopedia.
 
Vox Borealis:
But the pope still is the sovereign ruler of the Vatican city-state, and the church defends the Vatican’s independent status as a necessary bulwark of religious freedom. I wish the popes would still we the tiara, even if only for a few symbolic moments (like Paul VI), to remind us that he still does have some secular authority. And I love the pomp, too!
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The crown is not only a symbol of his civil governance, but also of his authority over the Church. It’s still considered part of the papal symbol, along with the keys. And any pope is entitled to wear it if he wishes. Paul VI wanted to show a certain simplicity and humility which his sucessors have chosen to follow. But a future pope might resurrect the tradition.
 
Pariah Pirana WAS IN POINT OF FACT correct!!! I was leafing through a book about the papacy in the bookstore today and the white cassock is in fact called a simar. The definition of simar? “A special kind of cassock.” So it didn’t go much further in describing it. Anyway, hats off to PP for being such a noodle on papal vestments. I was wrong.
 
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