Parable disproving OSAS

[Jerok]

In Matthew 25 1-13

10 virgins await their bridegroom, who is Jesus. 5 are foolish and 5 are wise.

They all are awaiting their bridegrooms and they all showing up to meet up with them but 5 don’t have enough oil and leave to go get more, then the bridegrooms shows up and takes the 5 wise ones in and the others aren’t let in.

I interpret this as being an argument against once-saved always-saved. They all 10 believed in Jesus, but 5 of them were unworthy of entering his house.

How to protestants who believe in OSAS interpret this?
Did the 5 foolish women not really believing in Jesus? If they didn’t, then why did they show up to greet Him? And if they did they should be saved too right?

I say they all ‘believed’ in Him, but 5 of them were foolish and still committed sins and therefore Jesus cast them out. Whereas the other 5 repented and led a good moral life, or atleast tried their hardest.

This is just what I got out of reading the passage. I am reading the Gospel for the first time in my life!

Thanks and God bless!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

In Matthew 25 1-13

10 virgins await their bridegroom, who is Jesus. 5 are foolish and 5 are wise.

They all are awaiting their bridegrooms and they all showing up to meet up with them but 5 don’t have enough oil and leave to go get more, then the bridegrooms shows up and takes the 5 wise ones in and the others aren’t let in.

I interpret this as being an argument against once-saved always-saved. They all 10 believed in Jesus, but 5 of them were unworthy of entering his house.

How to protestants who believe in OSAS interpret this?
Did the 5 foolish women not really believing in Jesus? If they didn’t, then why did they show up to greet Him? And if they did they should be saved too right?

I say they all ‘believed’ in Him, but 5 of them were foolish and still committed sins and therefore Jesus cast them out. Whereas the other 5 repented and led a good moral life, or atleast tried their hardest.

This is just what I got out of reading the passage. I am reading the Gospel for the first time in my life!

Thanks and God bless!

That’s a very good parable that argues against OSAS. Also, further in that same chapter the parable of the sheep and goats makes the same case.

Both groups call Jesus “Lord”, but only one group obeyed his commandments.

 

[charsan2]

In Matthew 25 1-13

10 virgins await their bridegroom, who is Jesus. 5 are foolish and 5 are wise.

They all are awaiting their bridegrooms and they all showing up to meet up with them but 5 don’t have enough oil and leave to go get more, then the bridegrooms shows up and takes the 5 wise ones in and the others aren’t let in.

I interpret this as being an argument against once-saved always-saved. They all 10 believed in Jesus, but 5 of them were unworthy of entering his house.

How to protestants who believe in OSAS interpret this?
Did the 5 foolish women not really believing in Jesus? If they didn’t, then why did they show up to greet Him? And if they did they should be saved too right?

I say they all ‘believed’ in Him, but 5 of them were foolish and still committed sins and therefore Jesus cast them out. Whereas the other 5 repented and led a good moral life, or atleast tried their hardest.

This is just what I got out of reading the passage. I am reading the Gospel for the first time in my life!

Thanks and God bless!

No it is not really an argument against Eternal Security, those who believe in the doctrine of Eternal Security would say the other 5 were not saved to begin with and the first 5 were and could not be lost. Here is the best verse to prove Eternal Security from our Lord’s mouth Himself:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand

John 10:28-29

I should comment on edit that I believe in a hybrid of Eternal Security. That is that no outside influence can take us from Christ, however we can still walk away.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

In Matthew 25 1-13

10 virgins await their bridegroom, who is Jesus. 5 are foolish and 5 are wise.

They all are awaiting their bridegrooms and they all showing up to meet up with them but 5 don’t have enough oil and leave to go get more, then the bridegrooms shows up and takes the 5 wise ones in and the others aren’t let in.

I interpret this as being an argument against once-saved always-saved. They all 10 believed in Jesus, but 5 of them were unworthy of entering his house.

How to protestants who believe in OSAS interpret this?
Did the 5 foolish women not really believing in Jesus? If they didn’t, then why did they show up to greet Him? And if they did they should be saved too right?

I say they all ‘believed’ in Him, but 5 of them were foolish and still committed sins and therefore Jesus cast them out. Whereas the other 5 repented and led a good moral life, or atleast tried their hardest.

This is just what I got out of reading the passage. I am reading the Gospel for the first time in my life!

Thanks and God bless!

If you look at the context of the entire sections before and one after, then you will see the theme, which is being prepared for when the Lord comes or keep your eyes on Him. Who keeps their eyes on Him and who are the ones that do not? Saved & unsaved. The five who were prepared are the one who intents and focus was on their Lord. The foolish ones never came to Christ and thus were never prepared. Verse 13 is the key to understanding and verse 2 will give you the emphasis on what the foolish and the wise; but you must look at the Greek on these two words and look at the roots to get additional emphasis.

As a side note, you can read the Bible a hundred times and never understand its meaning because one does not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Someone with the indwelling, can read through it one time and have understanding the other person who read it a hundred times could never get.

1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 puts it this way: “But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.” This is the person who read a hundred times w/o understanding. Verse 15 is the person who read it one time and gained much understanding “15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.”

 

[charsan2]

No it is not really an argument against Eternal Security, those who believe in the doctrine of Eternal Security would say the other 5 were not saved to begin with and the first 5 were and could not be lost. Here is the best verse to prove Eternal Security from our Lord’s mouth Himself:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand

John 10:28-29

I should comment on edit that I believe in a hybrid of Eternal Security. That is that no outside influence can take us from Christ, however we can still walk away.

Here is a great article on Eternal Security

**Question: “Is eternal security Biblical?”

Answer: ** When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy.” God’s power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand” (John 10:28-29b). Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are “sealed for the day of redemption.” If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will “have eternal life.” If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never “eternal” to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.

The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Our eternal security is based on God’s love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Source

 

[Timothy_Piper]

No it is not really an argument against Eternal Security, those who believe in the doctrine of Eternal Security would say the other 5 were not saved to begin with and the first 5 were and could not be lost. Here is the best verse to prove Eternal Security from our Lord’s mouth Himself:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand

John 10:28-29

I should comment on edit that I believe in a hybrid of Eternal Security. That is that no outside influence can take us from Christ, however we can still walk away.

Your hybrid version is not far off, but you only need a clear reason. Scripture speaks from Gods perpective and from man’s perspective especially concerning salvation.

Here is an example of God’s perspective:
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

God is outside of time, therefore what He has purposed is such a sure thing it is as though it already happened because in effect, it has. Some will say this verse refers to those saints in the past; there are several problems with that view, but the most glaring is that no one will be glorified until the Second Coming.

From man’s perspective: We are justified, being sanctified, and will be justified. This is a process because of the “time” issue; so from our perspective it is a lifelong process, but in eternity their is no such notion as “life time”.

As you read Scripture, you will see the writes seemingly to say we are already saved, then you will move further, then it seems they are saying we are being saved; then we scratch our heads. It is a simple paradox that we can actually comprehend, both are true, it is just a matter if it is from Gods “eternal perspective” or from man’s “time box” perspective.

There is a third perspective, which is a hybrid of the two above, but I don’t want to confuse you, but it is cool.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Your hybrid version is not far off, but you only need a clear reason. Scripture speaks from Gods perpective and from man’s perspective especially concerning salvation.

Here is an example of God’s perspective:
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

God is outside of time, therefore what He has purposed is such a sure thing it is as though it already happened because in effect, it has. Some will say this verse refers to those saints in the past; there are several problems with that view, but the most glaring is that no one will be glorified until the Second Coming.

From man’s perspective: We are justified, being sanctified, and will be justified. This is a process because of the “time” issue; so from our perspective it is a lifelong process, but in eternity their is no such notion as “life time”.

As you read Scripture, you will see the writes seemingly to say we are already saved, then you will move further, then it seems they are saying we are being saved; then we scratch our heads. It is a simple paradox that we can actually comprehend, both are true, it is just a matter if it is from Gods “eternal perspective” or from man’s “time box” perspective.

There is a third perspective, which is a hybrid of the two above, but I don’t want to confuse you, but it is cool.

God knows who will follow his will.

God’s grace reaches out to all men. We can’t be saved without it.

However, we must accept his grace and endure in our walk with him in order to go to heaven.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

God knows who will follow his will.

God’s grace reaches out to all men. We can’t be saved without it.

However, we must accept his grace and endure in our walk with him in order to go to heaven.

You are close, but far enough away. You must accept the Gift of God by your own free will, the real question is how is that achieved because Jesus teaches us two things for sure using Matthew 7 account and a parallel account in Luke, I believe 4. There is a narrow gate that one must enter and few actually find that narrow gate, then in Lukes account the ones that do find it; some are not able to enter in it. The word used is “strive” to enter, the Greek word is what we use in English as “agonize”. Why?

Jesus said “anyone who desires to follow me, must deny himself, pick up his cross, and follow me”. There lies the core issue, most people are not willing to deny themselves completely and when looking more carefully, it is an actual putting aside all self interest and turning all interest onto the Savior even to the point of death if He requires it of you.

Most people are unwilling or willing and unable to let go of all that self interest and fully trust and get on the side of Jesus. Why? Pride is the predominate reason, which is why those that believe they must perform some ritual(s) or adhere to some tradition is not letting go completely of that self interest. Why? Because in performing something you are saying that I must participate for this Gift, which makes the gift no longer a gift and in God’s sight is equivalent to rejecting His FREE Gift of Salvation because one was not willing, by choice, to completely deny oneself. The first two beatitudes describe the condition one must be in to accept the Free Gift and the Tax Collector in Luke 18 (I think 18) is the perfect example of “total humility” before God.

Where do works come into play or is this just that “Easy Believism false Gospel”? No, we have shown it is not easy, but when one truly accepts the Gift of God he is a “New Creation” IN Christ Jesus, he is bought with a price, he is no longer his own because he gave up ALL his self interest in favor of God’s. What is the purpose of the Christian? To testify to the world the GLORY of God; otherwise He should just take you to heaven w/out delay…right? This is why no one who has truly taken the Gift of God cannot turn back; you are His and He is yours, the two become one with the Lord, just as John 17 espouses. The proof will be in the fruits of righteousness, not in the false fruits of self righteousness which God did not prepare.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

You are close, but far enough away. You must accept the Gift of God by your own free will, the real question is how is that achieved because Jesus teaches us two things for sure using Matthew 7 account and a parallel account in Luke, I believe 4. There is a narrow gate that one must enter and few actually find that narrow gate, then in Lukes account the ones that do find it; some are not able to enter in it. The word used is “strive” to enter, the Greek word is what we use in English as “agonize”. Why?

Jesus said “anyone who desires to follow me, must deny himself, pick up his cross, and follow me”. There lies the core issue, most people are not willing to deny themselves completely and when looking more carefully, it is an actual putting aside all self interest and turning all interest onto the Savior even to the point of death if He requires it of you.

Most people are unwilling or willing and unable to let go of all that self interest and fully trust and get on the side of Jesus. Why? Pride is the predominate reason, which is why those that believe they must perform some ritual(s) or adhere to some tradition is not letting go completely of that self interest. Why? Because in performing something you are saying that I must participate for this Gift, which makes the gift no longer a gift and in God’s sight is equivalent to rejecting His FREE Gift of Salvation because one was not willing, by choice, to completely deny oneself. The first two beatitudes describe the condition one must be in to accept the Free Gift and the Tax Collector in Luke 18 (I think 18) is the perfect example of “total humility” before God.

Where do works come into play or is this just that “Easy Believism false Gospel”? No, we have shown it is not easy, but when one truly accepts the Gift of God he is a “New Creation” IN Christ Jesus, he is bought with a price, he is no longer his own because he gave up ALL his self interest in favor of God’s. What is the purpose of the Christian? To testify to the world the GLORY of God; otherwise He should just take you to heaven w/out delay…right? This is why no one who has truly taken the Gift of God cannot turn back; you are His and He is yours, the two become one with the Lord, just as John 17 espouses. The proof will be in the fruits of righteousness, not in the false fruits of self righteousness which God did not prepare.

When we accept God’s grace and come into the love of Jesus we are grafted on to the vine.

However, if we refuse to obey the commands of Jesus and persist in living a life of sin we will be cut from the vine.

We cannot be cut from the vine without first being attached.

 

[chessmane4e5]

I think OSAS does not fit with human nature. We know that the Angles were given a choice to either chose God or not. We know that Lucifer and 1/3 of the Angels chose to reject God and were thrown from Heaven. We also know that they can never change this choice, it is permanent.

Not so for man. We can change our mind, so to speak.

I like what CHESTERTONRULES said:

When we accept God’s grace and come into the love of Jesus we are grafted on to the vine.

However, if we refuse to obey the commands of Jesus and persist in living a life of sin we will be cut from the vine.

We cannot be cut from the vine without first being attached.

 

[jimmy]

No it is not really an argument against Eternal Security, those who believe in the doctrine of Eternal Security would say the other 5 were not saved to begin with and the first 5 were and could not be lost. Here is the best verse to prove Eternal Security from our Lord’s mouth Himself:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand

John 10:28-29

I should comment on edit that I believe in a hybrid of Eternal Security. That is that no outside influence can take us from Christ, however we can still walk away.

The problem with OSAS is that it ignores all of scripture. Scripture says, be watchful lest you fall. Christ warns against various sins and says take the narrow path to salvation. All of scripture points to the fact that our salvation is within our grasp. OSAS says you are saved and nothing you say or do can change that. If you are evil, it is only a sign that you were never saved anyway. The problem with this is that if it is true then it makes all of scripture superfluous. The warning to avoid sin is meaningless because you have eternal security and don’t have to worry about sin (if you are saved). The warning to avoid sin becomes simply a condemnation of the sinner. It basically says, if you are a sinner then you obviously weren’t eternally saved anyway. Therefore the statement by Paul that adulterers, murderers, and drunkards and other sinners won’t inherit the kingdom of heaven is meaningless because it doesn’t warn anyone to avoid these sins. It just states the fact of their condemnation.

 

[charsan2]

I would like to clear something up. It is not OSAS that’s like me coming in and spouting RCC all over, it is insulting. The proper term is Eternal Security, thank you and Scripture speaks of both Conditional Security and Eternal Security

 

[chessmane4e5]

When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy.” God’s power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

So is this just saying that so long as we “know Christ as their Savior” then they are Eternally Secure?

If this is true, then what does it mean to “know Christ”?

 

[Timothy_Piper]

When we accept God’s grace and come into the love of Jesus we are grafted on to the vine.

However, if we refuse to obey the commands of Jesus and persist in living a life of sin we will be cut from the vine.

We cannot be cut from the vine without first being attached.

I would agree if that was what it actually and really taught, but you must look very careful and not get caught up in the singular focus of being attached to the vine. The key, as with all true Christians, are the fruits associated with being part of the vine. Israel was exposed to all of the oracles of God; yet cut off from the vine. Does this mean they were all saved, then unsaved? We know that is not true. Did Jesus not feed 5,ooo and they were attached in the sense that they followed and listened, but walked away in unbelief, were all these saved? Israel was cut off for unbelief & the proof was not producing fruit; therefore the true Christian that abides in the vine produces fruit and is pruned by God to produce more fruit, the real Christian. The false profession and worker of salvation are always cut off for unbelief and the result of no righteous fruits of God.

The parable of the Sowers is a great example of this. All soils were attached to the Word, the first the devil came and snatched away before it could even get moving. The second received the word with joy, but then something new and exciting came around and they moved on because there was no real regeneration, then the 3rd soil really sticks around, but also keeps pace with the world, this is the person that plays church on Sundays and holidays, leaves the building and can’t wait to go back to living their Monday through Saturday life; therefore they are eventually choked out and again no true regeneration, then the 4th soil prepared by God, is the person is regenerated to new life and is the only one of the 4 that produced what? Fruit. “You will know them by their fruits”.

 

[chessmane4e5]

When we accept God’s grace and come into the love of Jesus we are grafted on to the vine.

However, if we refuse to obey the commands of Jesus and persist in living a life of sin we will be cut from the vine.

We cannot be cut from the vine without first being attached.

haha, I know I said I like what you said, but the more I think about it…

I do not think we need to accept God’s grace. He has given us his grace, their is nothing we can do about that. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, end of story.

So what is left? Is everyone saved? No, that doesn’t seem right according to the bible.

We do need to do something. Have faith? But Jesus said to love our neighbor. How is having faith in God, loving our neighbor?

The more I think about it, the more the RCC seems correct. We need to live our faith (faith without works is dead). We need strive each day to follow God’s commands. Not because we need to earn our way into heaven, but because that is how God created us. Their is no greater joy than following God’s commands, because He knows what is good for us.

 

[AmateurPianist]

In Matthew 25 1-13

10 virgins await their bridegroom, who is Jesus. 5 are foolish and 5 are wise.

They all are awaiting their bridegrooms and they all showing up to meet up with them but 5 don’t have enough oil and leave to go get more, then the bridegrooms shows up and takes the 5 wise ones in and the others aren’t let in.

I interpret this as being an argument against once-saved always-saved. They all 10 believed in Jesus, but 5 of them were unworthy of entering his house.

How to protestants who believe in OSAS interpret this?
Did the 5 foolish women not really believing in Jesus? If they didn’t, then why did they show up to greet Him? And if they did they should be saved too right?

I say they all ‘believed’ in Him, but 5 of them were foolish and still committed sins and therefore Jesus cast them out. Whereas the other 5 repented and led a good moral life, or atleast tried their hardest.

This is just what I got out of reading the passage. I am reading the Gospel for the first time in my life!

Thanks and God bless!

I don’t believe in OSAS myself.

This parable does ask a few inconvenient questions that my brothers in sisters in Christ who are Calvinist have to answer. Now I am not satisfied with their answers myself.

That having been said, this parable does not in the least disprove Calvinism (OSAS).

Just think about what it logically means to disprove something.

 

[charsan2]

So is this just saying that so long as we “know Christ as their Savior” then they are Eternally Secure?

If this is true, then what does it mean to “know Christ”?

To invite Him into our Hearts in simple terms, where He makes us new.

 

[charsan2]

Found another good verse for Eternal Security:

**For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb 6:4-6

**So if one was able to completely fall away it would be impossible to come back

 

[Timothy_Piper]

Found another good verse for Eternal Security:

**For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb 6:4-6

**So if one was able to completely fall away it would be impossible to come back

Read Galatians chapter 5 and see if you read something similar to Hebrews you cited above.

 

[chessmane4e5]

Found another good verse for Eternal Security:

**For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb 6:4-6

**So if one was able to completely fall away it would be impossible to come back

So can one fall away?

My bible makes a reference to Baptism. Saying that it is impossible to be baptized again.

Again, to me this seems to be saying that once you fully believe in God, that it would not be possible to completely reject Him, as in not believe. For example, I do not believe in Santa Claus. If I see him on December 25th coming down my chimney, it will be impossible for me to ever say again that I do not believe in Santa.

Believing is not the same as following though. For example, my family could all die tomorrow in a car crash, I could get angry with God and curse Him, and chose not to follow Him anymore.

Now if I do not repent, clearly I go to hell. But what if I realized, say 10 years later or whatever, that I was wrong and I ask God for forgiveness? Seems like Eternal Salvation is not true, unless I am not understanding something.