Paradise and Satan

[w_stewart]

Early this morning, I had this thought: If Satan were able to tempt Adam and Eve in the Paradise, does this mean Satan had power over those in heaven? Or was Satan still in heaven, meaning, was yet to be driven out from there?

But there is a need settle an assumption first: Is Paradise = heaven?

Please correct any wrong assumptions if any. Thanks.

 

[MarcoPolo]

It would seem that the Garden (Paradise) differs from the eternal heaven to come. The analogical language of the serpent refers to the influence of the devil to convince Adam and Eve to sin. Satan is utterly incompatible with heaven as is sin. That is also validated because as soon as Adam and Eve sinned, they got booted from the Garden. The “Garden” will be restored in a more glorious form than the first, thus there will be no blemish. We know this because Scripture tells us that what faded away had splendor, but how much more will that which is permanent have splendor (2 Cor 3:11; Haggai 2:9).

That is my theological thought at the moment. Maybe someone has quotes from Church Fathers that can offer more authoritative light on the passage.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Early this morning, I had this thought: If Satan were able to tempt Adam and Eve in the Paradise, does this mean Satan had power over those in heaven? Or was Satan still in heaven, meaning, was yet to be driven out from there?

But there is a need settle an assumption first: Is Paradise = heaven?

Please correct any wrong assumptions if any. Thanks.

Garden and Paradise-
not the same things.

 

[Vince1022]

Early this morning, I had this thought: If Satan were able to tempt Adam and Eve in the Paradise, does this mean Satan had power over those in heaven? Or was Satan still in heaven, meaning, was yet to be driven out from there?

But there is a need settle an assumption first: Is Paradise = heaven?

Please correct any wrong assumptions if any. Thanks.

According to the Bible, Satan did not tempt Adam and Eve (read Genesis).

According to the Bible, Adam and Eve were in Eden, not paradise (though the Bible does not clarify the difference between the two).

Catholic tradition teaches that Satan does not have power over those in heaven.

 

[grannymh]

According to the Bible, Satan did not tempt Adam and Eve (read Genesis).

According to the Bible, Adam and Eve were in Eden, not paradise (though the Bible does not clarify the difference between the two).

Catholic tradition teaches that Satan does not have power over those in heaven.

Basic Catholic teaching **regarding Adam, the Fall of the Angels, and Original Sin including “Man tempted by the devil…” **
is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put the word paragraph and its number in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Entering topics, like Adam, is also very useful.

When you enter a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then click on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 you will see the following under the paragraph:

»
»
»
»

 

[w_stewart]

According to the Bible, Satan did not tempt Adam and Eve (read Genesis).

Interesting position!

So when Satan “encouraged” Eve to eat the fruit, what did that act qualify if not temptation?

 

[Vince1022]

Basic Catholic teaching **regarding Adam, the Fall of the Angels, and Original Sin including “Man tempted by the devil…” **
is found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, ISBN: 1-57455-109-4
Paragraphs 355-421.

The good news of Jesus Christ follows in Paragraph 422, etc.

One can put the word paragraph and its number in the Catechism’s search bar in link www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Entering topics, like Adam, is also very useful.

When you enter a paragraph number, like “paragraph 355”, and then click on the opening line, CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 355 you will see the following under the paragraph:

»
»
»
»

Ummm…yeah…ok…so what’s your point?

 

[Vince1022]

Interesting position!

So when Satan “encouraged” Eve to eat the fruit, what did that act qualify if not temptation?

It was temptation. My only point was that according the Bible it was not Satan.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Ummm…yeah…ok…so what’s your point?

If you could be more polite to granny, I would truly appreciate it.

 

[Vince1022]

If you could be more polite to granny, I would truly appreciate it.

I did not intend to be impolite. Sorry if I offended you or anyone.

Your accusation is offensive to me. And, of course, does not contribute to this thread.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I did not intend to be impolite. Sorry if I offended you or anyone.

Your accusation is offensive to me. And, of course, does not contribute to this thread.

Granny addressed this rather well, and did make her point. CCC 391 gives us a clear idea that there was temptation. While the serpent is representative of the “Satan” in Genesis 3:1-5 and Wisdom 2:24, we are not at a loss or left wondering about who was behind this.

 

[Vince1022]

Granny addressed this rather well, and did make her point. CCC 391 gives us a clear idea that there was temptation. While the serpent is representative of the “Satan” in Genesis 3:1-5 and Wisdom 2:24, we are not at a loss or left wondering about who was behind this.

Of course there was temptation.

Of course the serpent is not Satan, in Genesis.

So…your point?

 

[grannymh]

It was temptation. My only point was that according the Bible it was not Satan.

In Genesis 3: 1-7, not only is the serpent active in developing a relationship with a human, he knows God and is intelligent and clever enough to distort God’s command regarding the limits of human nature.

Would you please explain who or what is the serpent?

Blessings,
granny

Our first parent Adam was the apple of God’s eye.
(example of reality and figurative language)

 

[StrawberryJam]

In Genesis 3: 1-7, not only is the serpent active in developing a relationship with a human, he knows God and is intelligent and clever enough to distort God’s command regarding the limits of human nature.

Would you please explain who or what is the serpent?

Blessings,
granny

Our first parent Adam was the apple of God’s eye.
(example of reality and figurative language)

Granny, we see in Revelation mention of him yet again- and also in Peter. All ties in with Genesis actually.

Not sure where your catholic friend is on this thing, but it is not news to me.

 

[wjp984]

Unless you want to argue that Adam and Eve were created before the angels and before the Fall of Lucifer, then I don’t see how you can argue that Satan was not behind the temptation involved in the Garden. Since when does a snake talk? It had to be the work of Satan.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Unless you want to argue that Adam and Eve were created before the angels and before the Fall of Lucifer, then I don’t see how you can argue that Satan was not behind the temptation involved in the Garden. Since when does a snake talk? It had to be the work of Satan.

Believers in the Hebrew bible and in New Testament have reliance in the passages that reference this. For Catholics, it is in the Hebrew bible and in Revelation and Peter.

Let the poster challenge that point.

I agree with your logic, if it matters.

 

[Vince1022]

In Genesis 3: 1-7, not only is the serpent active in developing a relationship with a human, he knows God and is intelligent and clever enough to distort God’s command regarding the limits of human nature.

Would you please explain who or what is the serpent?

Blessings,
granny

Our first parent Adam was the apple of God’s eye.
(example of reality and figurative language)

I’m referring to the NAB translation of Scripture, so if anything I post is questionable depending on one’s translation of the Bible please let me know.

Referring to the NAB:

Where does Genesis 3:1-7 say the serpent knows God? And where does it talk about the limits of human nature?

 

[Vince1022]

Believers in the Hebrew bible and in New Testament have reliance in the passages that reference this. For Catholics, it is in the Hebrew bible and in Revelation and Peter.

Let the poster challenge that point.

I agree with your logic, if it matters.

The Catholic Church, in many respects, does not use or condone the use of terms like “Hebrew Bible.” From a Christian perspective, all Scripture is for all Christians. The “Hebrew Bible” you refer to is also known as the “Old Testament”…is that right? If so, then they are not, according to Christian/Catholic understanding, best described as “Hebrew bible”…as they are Scripture…for all Christians…not just Hebrews.

 

[Vince1022]

Granny, we see in Revelation mention of him yet again- and also in Peter. All ties in with Genesis actually.

Not sure where your catholic friend is on this thing, but it is not news to me.

It may all tie in, but the reference to Satan does not, as Satan is not mentioned in Genesis. Right?

 

[Vince1022]

Unless you want to argue that Adam and Eve were created before the angels and before the Fall of Lucifer, then I don’t see how you can argue that Satan was not behind the temptation involved in the Garden. Since when does a snake talk? It had to be the work of Satan.

I’m only asking where Satan is mentioned in Genesis.

And, to answer your question, God is certainly capable of creating serpents that could talk, no? Or did Satan do such without God’s knowledge/permission/power?