Paradox in Islam - Please Explain

[Eden]

I have heard on interviews and in press from Muslims who work with new converts, that Islam teaches that we are all born Muslim. So, when a Christian converts to Islam, they are referred to as “reverts”.

Question: How do Muslims reconcile the idea that all people are born Muslim with the teaching that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? If, in a Muslim’s eyes, all Christians and Jews were born Muslim, does that not automatically imply that all non-Muslims deserve the punishment for apostasy?

The teaching I am referring to is surah 9:12 which states that a Muslim apostate must be killed.

 

[exoflare]

Good point. But as usual I doubt they put much real thought into it when making up all that “revert” stuff. It’s pretty much a vanity thing.

 

[THEKING]

hehe no, from an Islamic point of view, to be born Muslim means submitting to Allah. So any human being is born Muslim cuz any human is to submit to Allah.

Furthermore, Islam is considered the religion of “fitra”…mmm i think it;s “instinct” or something of the like in English. ( on this i agree wholeheartedly )

 

[exoflare]

hehe no, from an Islamic point of view, to be born Muslim means submitting to Allah. So any human being is born Muslim cuz any human is to submit to Allah.

They say that every human being is supposed to “submit to Allah”, but I thought being Muslim was contingent upon the decision the person makes him or herself whether or not to follow it? Babies do not have responsibility for their actions, so how can you call them “Muslim” in that sense as soon as they are born?

 

[THEKING]

They say that every human being is supposed to “submit to Allah”, but I thought being Muslim was contingent upon the decision the person makes him or herself whether or not to follow it? Babies do not have responsibility for their actions, so how can you call them “Muslim” in that sense as soon as they are born?

Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws.

 

[exoflare]

Muslims believe that every child is born into a state of purity where it recognizes its Creator and is naturally subservient to His laws.

Okay, I understand.

But how do you explain why they are not considered apostates later on, then?

 

[THEKING]

Okay, I understand.

But how do you explain why they are not considered apostates later on, then?

Because it is the parents’ “fault”; parents make him follow their religion and the child is not strong enough to resist them. The religion which the child follows at this stage is not held to account by Allah.

The child , when exposed to Islam later, must follow it and Allah will help him. If he doesnt follow it, it’s because of the devil.

thats it in a nutshell

 

[exoflare]

Because it is the parents’ “fault”; parents make him follow their religion and the child is not strong enough to resist them. The religion which the child follows at this stage is not held to account by Allah.

The child , when exposed to Islam later, must follow it and Allah will help him. If he doesnt follow it, it’s because of the devil.

thats it in a nutshell

LOL okay I understand clearly now. That actually sounds about right, based on my past experience!

Thanks.

 

[meedo]

I have heard on interviews and in press from Muslims who work with new converts, that Islam teaches that we are all born Muslim. So, when a Christian converts to Islam, they are referred to as “reverts”.

Question: How do Muslims reconcile the idea that all people are born Muslim with the teaching that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? If, in a Muslim’s eyes, all Christians and Jews were born Muslim, does that not automatically imply that all non-Muslims deserve the punishment for apostasy?

The teaching I am referring to is surah 9:12 which states that a Muslim apostate must be killed.

The paradox is not in Islam , it is because you dont know enough about islam.

In Islam you ar enot accounted for your actions untill you become Mature and knwoledgable and sane. All three conditions must apply.

You are born in a state of Islam . However your parents bring you up as a catholic as a child . This doesnt hold you responsible for any act of apostacy simply because you were not aware.

Its basic knowledge in Islam .

salam

 

[Eden]

The paradox is not in Islam , it is because you dont know enough about islam.

In Islam you ar enot accounted for your actions untill you become Mature and knwoledgable and sane. All three conditions must apply.

You are born in a state of Islam . However your parents bring you up as a catholic as a child . This doesnt hold you responsible for any act of apostacy simply because you were not aware.

Its basic knowledge in Islam .

salam

So, one does not become eligible for death until they consciously reject the teachings of Muhammed? Are you saying that when Muhammed ordered his followers to kill all non-believers, he made the distinction between adult and child? I’d like to see those verses, if you can provide them please. That was not the way I understood jihad.

 

[meedo]

So, one does not become eligible for death until they consciously reject the teachings of Muhammed? Are you saying that when Muhammed ordered his followers to kill all non-believers, he made the distinction between adult and child? I’d like to see those verses, if you can provide them please. That was not the way I understood jihad.

Muhammed didnt just order his followers to go kill whomeer unbeliever they found!!!. There was wars waged against muslims and muslims defended themselves. Rules of war in Islam that you dont kill a child or a woman or an elder . When Muhammed entered Mecca he let every body go to his own way . None was harmed.

You want me to answer you a question about Islam based on YOUR understanding of Islam. JIf Jihad was simply to kill unbelievers then there wouldnt be any christians and jews left in the middle east .

 

[Eden]

If Jihad was simply to kill unbelievers then there wouldnt be any christians and jews left in the middle east .

Well, there are still Christians in the Middle East, but it’s not for the lack of trying. The ones who are “left” live in constant fear.

We in the free world have a duty to speak for our Christian brothers and sisters in Muslim countries who have been silenced by fear, torture or decapitation.

Brigitte Gabriel’s book “Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America” is chilling in its description of just what the Western world is going to have to face someday.

 

[inJESUS]

Well, there are still Christians in the Middle East, but it’s not for the lack of trying. The ones who are “left” live in constant fear.

We in the free world have a duty to speak for our Christian brothers and sisters in Muslim countries who have been silenced by fear, torture or decapitation.

Brigitte Gabriel’s book “Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America” is chilling in its description of just what the Western world is going to have to face someday.

let all people read the book then.

 

[thistle]

Muhammed didnt just order his followers to go kill whomeer unbeliever they found!!!. There was wars waged against muslims and muslims defended themselves. Rules of war in Islam that you dont kill a child or a woman or an elder . When Muhammed entered Mecca he let every body go to his own way . None was harmed.

You want me to answer you a question about Islam based on YOUR understanding of Islam. JIf **Jihad was simply to kill unbelievers then there wouldnt be any christians and jews left in the middle east **./QUOTE]

Its not for want of trying but you don’t have the means. That’s why Iran wants a nuclear weapon!

 

[Sixtus]

I have never been hurt by any Moslem, have been hurt many times by protestants, so they are more of a threat and I fear them more than Moslems

 

[exoflare]

I have never been hurt by any Moslem, have been hurt many times by protestants, so they are more of a threat and I fear them more than Moslems

What percent of the population in your area is Muslim? This is the important thing you left out.

 

[Montalban]

I have heard on interviews and in press from Muslims who work with new converts, that Islam teaches that we are all born Muslim. So, when a Christian converts to Islam, they are referred to as “reverts”.

Question: How do Muslims reconcile the idea that all people are born Muslim with the teaching that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? If, in a Muslim’s eyes, all Christians and Jews were born Muslim, does that not automatically imply that all non-Muslims deserve the punishment for apostasy?

The teaching I am referring to is surah 9:12 which states that a Muslim apostate must be killed.

That could be in fact the reason Islam calls areas not under Islam the “House of War”

 

[Ridgerunner]

There was wars waged against muslims and muslims defended themselves. .

Defended themselves all the way from Arabia to Croatia.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said : "Every child is born with a true faith of Islam. But his parents convert him to Judaism, Christianity os Magianism, as an animal delivers a perfect baby animal. Do you find it mutilated? " Sahih Al Bukhari,Volume 2,Book 23,Number 467

S.39:11-12 Pickthall
… And I commanded to be the first of those who are muslims(surrender unto Him)

who was the 1st??

 

[Montalban]

Muhammad didn’t just order his followers to go kill whomever unbeliever they found!

That’s true. Some you didn’t kill, but raped and enslaved. Some surrendered to a degree of degradation and you spared them to feel better as a constant reminder that you had inferiors amongst you

There was wars waged against Muslims and Muslims defended themselves.

What threat did the Visgothic kingdoms of Spain in the 600s-700s post to Islamic Arabia?

As Pro_universal admitted already on another thread, you’re allowed to attack people who aren’t even an immediate threat