Parallellism between Mani and Muhammad

[Booklover]

We’ve already seen in other threads how Muhammad borrowed items from many different sources and incorporated them into the Quran. It also appears that he borrowed his idea for his “prophethood” from Mani, the founder of Manichaeism.

**Mani **

(216- 276) Founder of religion, now called Manichaeism.
He was born in the province Babylon which was under Persian rule. His family was Persian, but his name is Aramaic. Mani have probably originally belonged to a Christian sect, now called Elkhasitts (a group of heretical Jewish- Christians).
At the age of 12 and 24, Mani had visions where an angel told him that he would be the prophet of a last divine revelation. A the age of 26 Mani started on a long journey, where he stood forward as ‘Messenger of Truth’, and he travelled through the Persian Empire and reached as far as India, where he became influenced by Buddhism.
Mani practised under the protection of the Persian emperor, Shapur 1, most of his life. As his teaching quickly gained ground, he came in opposition to the Zoroastrian priests, and with the emperor Bahram 1 from 274, Mani lost his protection, and he either died in prison or was executed. The death of Mani, is retold as an incident similar to the crucifixion of Jesus.

i-cias.com/e.o/mani.htm

He later claimed to be the Paraclete promised in the New Testament, the Last Prophet or Seal of the Prophets, finalizing a succession of men guided by God, which included figures such as Seth, Noah, Abraham, Shem, Nikotheos, Enoch, Zoroaster, Hermes, Plato, Buddha, and Jesus. During his lifetime, Mani’s earliest missionaries were active in Mesopotamia, Persia, Palestine and Syria.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mani_%28prophet%29

cont.

 

[Booklover]

cont.

Interestingly, there are also parallels between Mani and Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. Mani claimed to be the successor to prophets like Jesus and other prophets whose teachings he said were locally corrupted (or corrupted by their followers). Mani declared himself, and was also referred to, as the Paraclete: a Biblical title, meaning “one who consoles” or “one who intercedes on our behalf”, which the Orthodox tradition understood as referring to God in the person of the Holy Spirit. Mani claimed to be the last of the prophets, and also claimed that his prophethood was revealed to him by an angel. Muhammad, similarly, claimed to be the successor to prophets, notably the Hebrew prophets and Jesus. He claimed that the teachings of previous prophets were corrupted by their followers, e.g. Christians believing Jesus to be the son of God. He also claimed to be the last of God’s prophets promised to humanity, as was said of Mani.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mani_%28prophet%29

 

[exoflare]

Interesting stuff! Thanks for posting.

 

[Khalfan]

cont.

Interestingly, there are also parallels between Mani and Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. Mani claimed to be the successor to prophets like Jesus and other prophets whose teachings he said were locally corrupted (or corrupted by their followers). Mani declared himself, and was also referred to, as the Paraclete: a Biblical title, meaning “one who consoles” or “one who intercedes on our behalf”, which the Orthodox tradition understood as referring to God in the person of the Holy Spirit. Mani claimed to be the last of the prophets, and also claimed that his prophethood was revealed to him by an angel. Muhammad, similarly, claimed to be the successor to prophets, notably the Hebrew prophets and Jesus. He claimed that the teachings of previous prophets were corrupted by their followers, e.g. Christians believing Jesus to be the son of God. He also claimed to be the last of God’s prophets promised to humanity, as was said of Mani.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mani_%28prophet%29

What is your point? It doesn’t prove anything. Mohamed (pbuh) might have copied the idea or might not be. Jesus (pbuh) said many things what Moses (pbuh) and others said. Do you say it was copied? Still there are people who claim to be prophet and God. Only God can prove the truth of him through messages. God knew there will question about the prophethood of Mohamed (pbuh). God proved his messengership in Quran.

 

[Verisimilitude]

What is your point?

Truth is the point.

It doesn’t prove anything.

It proves a great deal.

Mohamed (pbuh) might have copied the idea or might not be.

That is a dangerous thought for a Muslim.

Jesus (pbuh) said many things what Moses (pbuh) and others said. Do you say it was copied?

No. Fulfilled.

Still there are people who claim to be prophet and God. Only God can prove the truth of him through messages. God knew there will question about the prophethood of Mohamed (pbuh). God proved his messengership in Quran.

Man can determine truth as well. Let him who has ears, hear!

 

[Booklover]

What is your point? It doesn’t prove anything. Mohamed (pbuh) might have copied the idea or might not be. Jesus (pbuh) said many things what Moses (pbuh) and others said. Do you say it was copied? Still there are people who claim to be prophet and God. Only God can prove the truth of him through messages. God knew there will question about the prophethood of Mohamed (pbuh). God proved his messengership in Quran.

Totally irrational and illogical post! And who told you that God proved Muhammad’s prophethood in the Quran?? Muhammad!

Can’t you see that the stories of prophethood of both are exactly the same? You have such blind faith in Muhammad that you cannot see that?

Vickie

 

[Khalfan]

That is a dangerous thought for a Muslim.

No. It is as easy as knowing the truth from the evidence. Not from 2000 year old mysteries.

No. Fulfilled.

Muhamed (pbuh) fulfilled the prophecy of Jesus (pbuh). They conveyed the same message of one God. Not trinity. Jesus (pbuh) never said he is God and never talked about trinity.

Man can determine truth as well. Let him who has ears, hear!

Man cannot determine truth of God without help of God. You can make assumptions like you do about Jesus (pbuh).

 

[eleonardo]

No. It is as easy as knowing the truth from the evidence.

And who told you that God proved Muhammad’s prophethood in the Quran?? Muhammad!

 

[Khalfan]

Totally irrational and illogical post! And who told you that God proved Muhammad’s prophethood in the Quran?? Muhammad!

To know the truth of Quran, there is no better way than reading it once. Please note it is not gospels according to Muhamed (pbuh).

Can’t you see that the stories of prophethood of both are exactly the same? You have such blind faith in Muhammad that you cannot see that?

Vickie

My dear, the concept of God revealing messages to messengers was not new at the time Mani. Jesus (pbuh), Moses (pbuh), David (pbuh), Jonah (pbuh), abraham (pbuh)… according to Quran, around 124000 messengers came around the world. The ‘stories’ of prophethood for all those messengers were the same. Mani might have copied it from someone who existed before him.

The question is, how do we know he was right or wrong? Only God can help to prove it.

 

[BelFarfalla]

To know the truth of Quran, there is no better way than reading it once. Please note it is not gospels according to Muhamed (pbuh). .

Nope It’s Muhammad according to the 3rd Caliphate. The current version of the qur’an was written in the 3rd Caliphate by his people. He had almost all other versions of the Qur’an destoryed. However many of those other versions were hidden and still survive. They were found hidden in a Mosque in Yemen. Its so silly how Muslims pretend that there is one origianl copy of the Qur’an written by Muhammad or given to him by Allah… its nonsense. The Qur’an was written by men long after the death of Muhammad.

 

[Khalfan]

Nope It’s Muhammad according to the 3rd Caliphate. The current version of the qur’an was written in the 3rd Caliphate by his people. He had almost all other versions of the Qur’an destoryed. However many of those other versions were hidden and still survive. They were found hidden in a Mosque in Yemen. Its so silly how Muslims pretend that there is one origianl copy of the Qur’an written by Muhammad or given to him by Allah… its nonsense. The Qur’an was written by men long after the death of Muhammad.

Wow… fantastic. keep on making stories.

Quran doesn’t talk about the Muhamed (pbuh) and his life. You can’t Quran is ‘Muhamed (pbuh) according to 3 Caliphat’.

No Muslim will deny that Quran made into the shape that we see today is made duirng the period of usman (ra) only. Before that it was on many meterials like leather, wood and stone. Quran completed is revelation in 23 years. Many companians didn’t know the complete Quran. Many of them memorized and wrote only the part they learned after their conversion. many of the writings had the notes of the writers beside Quran Like it is in the gospels in bible. the very first caliph started collection of these writings. he ruled only 1 and half year. then the second caliph continued the process of making the Quran into a book. He ruled around three years only. then the third caliph only could complete the process. the task was to collect almost all written copies of Quran to collect, Seperate the notes of writers (these notes became hadeeses) from the words of god, arrange the chapters and verses as it was instructed by prophet (pbuh). once it is completed there were those writings and notes. Since they have approved the copy of Quran, they agreed to destroy their writings.

there were two reason to burn those writings.

1. It wasn’t complete.
2. The notes beside Quran could make misunderstanding to later generation, if it is words of God or the writers.

Since historians found copies of earlier writings about jesus (pbuh)that dosen’t match with Pauline teachings, like Barnabas bible, Christians are so eager to find different copies of Quran. But they failed, allegation started to have found here and there.

Keep on trying with those allegations. It may work with any uneducated poor Muslim.

No Muslim will ever pretend that there is one origianl copy of the Qur’an written by Muhammad or given to him by Allah… Because we know, its nonsense.

 

[quantumDeus]

Wow… fantastic. keep on making stories.

Quran doesn’t talk about the Muhamed (pbuh) and his life.

What? The Qur’an is almost exclusively about Mo and his reprehensible life.

[QUOTEYou can’t Quran is ‘Muhamed (pbuh) according to 3 Caliphat’.
[/QUOTE]

The assertion can certainly be made and there are separate lines of evidence, both inside and outside of Islam, to confirm it. Uthman ordered all copies of the Qur’an not of a certain school to be destroyed.

This duality of schools (of oral recitation) was even known in Mo’s time, and he did little to discourage it.

No Muslim will deny that Quran … Since they have approved the copy of Quran, they agreed to destroy their writings.

there were two reason to burn those writings.

1. It wasn’t complete.

1. The notes beside Quran could make misunderstanding to later generation, if it is words of God or the writers.

Nice bit of revisionistic history. As to the length of rule of the different caliphs, assassination does tend to be a political terminator.

Since historians found copies of earlier writings about jesus (pbuh)that dosen’t match with Pauline teachings, like Barnabas bible, Christians are so eager to find different copies of Quran. But they failed, allegation started to have found here and there.

No, they are not included because they failed the test of inspiration or historical legitimacy.

No Muslim will ever pretend that there is one origianl copy of the Qur’an written by Muhammad or given to him by Allah… Because we know, its nonsense.

This is a blatant misrepresentation. The Qur’an itself states that it originates from Paradise, and the original book is kept there.

 

[Jayda]

hola

i have brought this issue up before… i remember reading a very interesting book about mohamed and the development of his religion. as a merchant he traveled all around the arabian peninsula and experienced grave divisions in the arab people… because of their different tribes and religions. in an effort to politically unify the arab people he synthesized islam out of the local religions in an attempt to create a religion of complete unity.

to that end he borrowed concepts from mani, pagan arabian beliefs, heretical christianity, judaism to name a few. the product was islam, with a final prophet, recognizable arabian superstitions like jinn and ghosts, uncanonical stories of the life of Jesus like the clay bird from the arab infancy gospel, and the appropriation of the Prophets, God and covenant of the people of Israel.

but his religion focused on oneness… no divisions, there would only be one God and one book because before the arabs fought each other in the name of different gods or different books. there would only be one sect (no ‘fitnah’) because before the arabs fought each other in the name of different sects and there would be only one prophet, because before the arabs fought each other in the name of different prophets.

most importantly they would be one community, one ummah, on language, all praying exactly the same way, at exactly the same time, saying exactly the same things.

it is fitting that in his final sermon he warned the arabs one last time that arabs were anyone who spoke arabic… their divisions of different religions, gods, sects and prophets were gone. unified arabia.

i personally think this is why islam will always be an ‘arab religion’ … what i mean is arabic culture disguised as a religion. a unique arabic culture created by mohamed and synthesized from the warring factions from before.

i’d love to have a serious discussion with a knowledgable muslim on these issues some time… but i’ve only brought it up once and that is definitely never going to happen again. it definitely serves to reinforce what i thought though…

Dominus vobiscum

 

[Jayda]

No, they are not included because they failed the test of inspiration or historical legitimacy.

hola

actually in the case of the ‘gospel of barnabas’ it did not even exist at the time canon was finalized… the turks created it in the 16th century, the anachronisms and general lack of knowledge (like sailing up to nazareth) is comical.

i am a little bemused by muslims’ pushiness over the legitimacy of the ‘gospel of barnabas.’ one time i was very frustrated that the person i was talking to ignored everything i said, so i simply responded ‘yay! we have found a perfect uncorrupted bible! this means that we no longer need the quran, since the reason for it being sent is now moot’

he has not responded to my email in 8 months now…

que Dios te bendiga

 

[quantumDeus]

To know the truth of Quran, there is no better way than reading it once. Please note it is not gospels according to Muhamed (pbuh).

I have read the Qur’an more than once. I have read it in surah order and in chronological order. Each reading of it, when compared to the hadith, leads me further from acceptance of Mo as a prophet and the Qur’an as the inspired word of God.

 

[Khalfan]

What? The Qur’an is almost exclusively about Mo and his reprehensible life.

You better find any 5 year old child to say these kind statements.

‘Almost exclusively’…

Do you think it is really necessery to lie, to disprove Islam?

The assertion can certainly be made and there are separate lines of evidence, both inside and outside of Islam, to confirm it. Uthman ordered all copies of the Qur’an not of a certain school to be destroyed.

So what?

This duality of schools (of oral recitation) was even known in Mo’s time, and he did little to discourage it.

I didn’t understand. What is that schools?

Nice bit of revisionistic history. As to the length of rule of the different caliphs, assassination does tend to be a political terminator.

I didn’t get you.

No, they are not included because they failed the test of inspiration or historical legitimacy.

And how do you do that test of Spiritual Inspiration?

This is a blatant misrepresentation. The Qur’an itself states that it originates from Paradise, and the original book is kept there.

No. The concept of a BOOK is completely human invention. Now, if it is written in a book or in a CD, those kind of clims are neither provable or disprovable. So the argument on that, is just waste of time. What we know is how Mohamed (pbuh) got it. It wasn’t revealed in a book.

 

[Khalfan]

hola

i have brought this issue up before… i remember reading a very interesting book about mohamed and the development of his religion. as a merchant he traveled all around the arabian peninsula and experienced grave divisions in the arab people… because of their different tribes and religions. in an effort to politically unify the arab people he synthesized islam out of the local religions in an attempt to create a religion of complete unity.

to that end he borrowed concepts from mani, pagan arabian beliefs, heretical christianity, judaism to name a few. the product was islam, with a final prophet, recognizable arabian superstitions like jinn and ghosts, uncanonical stories of the life of Jesus like the clay bird from the arab infancy gospel, and the appropriation of the Prophets, God and covenant of the people of Israel.

but his religion focused on oneness… no divisions, there would only be one God and one book because before the arabs fought each other in the name of different gods or different books. there would only be one sect (no ‘fitnah’) because before the arabs fought each other in the name of different sects and there would be only one prophet, because before the arabs fought each other in the name of different prophets.

most importantly they would be one community, one ummah, on language, all praying exactly the same way, at exactly the same time, saying exactly the same things.

it is fitting that in his final sermon he warned the arabs one last time that arabs were anyone who spoke arabic… their divisions of different religions, gods, sects and prophets were gone. unified arabia.

i personally think this is why islam will always be an ‘arab religion’ … what i mean is arabic culture disguised as a religion. a unique arabic culture created by mohamed and synthesized from the warring factions from before.

i’d love to have a serious discussion with a knowledgable muslim on these issues some time… but i’ve only brought it up once and that is definitely never going to happen again. it definitely serves to reinforce what i thought though…

Dominus vobiscum

I appreciate your study. I think, anyone, who is interested in God and faith, have to have their own search rather than it comes from parents. Let me tell you one of my experiences.

Since I am very much concerned about my God, my faith and my life, I follow Islam in every aspect in the day to day life. And at the same time I do compare and study the same events with other major religion practices like in Christianity and Hinduism.

I have 3 Christian colleagues and I use to discuss many issues with them. When I quoted some of the Bible verses for explanation, like the prophecy of Jesus (pbuh) being in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights, they couldn’t answer properly, and the answer was,

“To understand Bible, you have to have Holy Spirit in you”

I asked “How do I get the Spirit?”

They said “Pray for it”.

I asked “Don’t you think, it is a fair demand to know what is it (Holy Spirit) before I pray for it?”

They said “You may study, what is Holy Spirit. Its mentioned in the Bible”. I got puzzled. I asked them,

“What is the first step,

Read the Bible, to know and have the Spirit

or

Have the Spirit, to read and understand the Bible?”

As you have found convincing reasons to have faith in Christianity, I have found reasons have faith in Islam. I still prefer learning about other faiths and I appreciate your interest to study Islam.

 

[Khalfan]

I have read the Qur’an more than once. I have read it in surah order and in chronological order. Each reading of it, when compared to the hadith, leads me further from acceptance of Mo as a prophet and the Qur’an as the inspired word of God.

I think you may need a ‘Holy Spirit’ to understand Quran.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I think you may need a ‘Holy Spirit’ to understand Quran.

It isn’t that difficult to understand, but I think you need to suspend logic and reason to accept it.

 

[quantumDeus]

I think you may need a ‘Holy Spirit’ to understand Quran.

The Qur’an alone is supposed to be sufficient. A Holy Spirit is a blasphemy in Islam.

When I looked at Islam as a faith, it failed at every level to withstand the light of truth. The Catholic Church withstood such scrutiny.