Paraphrased version of the "Our Father" at Mass

[Roselander]

Is this permissible? Our pastor evidently likes to use a sung version of the Our Father at Mass which changes the words a bit. It starts out the right way, but then, instead of “give us this day our daily bread” it starts to paraphrase. At the end, instead of “lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil” it goes “and lead us not away from You.” That line just irks me. Why would God lead us away from Him? Does anyone else out there have this version at Mass?

 

[ChemicalBean]

Yeah that’s a weird ending. But I’ve always wondered why would God would lead us into temptation either?

 

[Like]

Yeah that’s a weird ending. But I’ve always wondered why would God would lead us into temptation either?

Chemicalbean, This what I was thought about this Lead us not into Temptation
When we say “lead us not into temptation” we are asking God not to allow us to take the path that leads to sin. This petition implores the Spirit of discernment and strength; it requests the grace of vigilance and final perseverance.
I hope this helps

 

[CatholismRox]

I never heard of changing the words.

 

[rwoehmke]

Sounds kind of inane to me. Course got to keep in mind that Jesus taught the prayer in Aramaic which became Greek which became Latin and then for us in this country English. All that translating certainly does not collect exactly what was said in Aramaic. Kind of leaves one wondering sometimes, how important can it be that it upsets me.

 

[Marysann]

Roselander, this question is easy! It is not a matter of prefering another translation that may or may not help people to correctly interpret the meaning of the Lord’s Prayer. Those are matters for catechisis. What we are dealing with here is the problem of someone wanting to change the words of an official prayer of the Mass. This is forbidden by the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. Show your pastor or music leader paragraph 24 in Chapter One of the GIRM where it quotes Sacrosanctum Concilium, number 22 to say, “The priest must remember that he is the servant of the Sacred Liturgy and that he himself is not permitted, on his own initiative, to add, to remove, or to change anything in the celebration of Mass.” Even when we sing the prayers, we must use the correct works. I hope this helps.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

As has been said, no priest (or choir director, or any private individual for that matter) may change the official texts of the Mass. When the Church was first switching to the vernacular many tried to claim that musical composition demanded changing the words for aesthetic purposes (to conform them to a phrase or melody), but beginning with Musicam sacram I’m pretty sure the Church has consistently stated the text must rule the music, not the other way around. Not being well-read in legislation particular to sacred music I’m not sure if any sort of latitude has subsequently been granted, but on its face a very high proportion of musical settings common in US parishes do not pass the test of leaving the text unaltered, meaning they aren’t fit for use.

Interestingly, I think I may have run into this arrangement of the Our Father during previous employment.

Does it run thus?: Our Father/ who art in heaven/ hallowed be thy name/ Thy kingdom come/ Thy will be done/ on earth as in heaven/ Please give to us/ all that we need/ and forgive us all our sins/ as we forgive/ those who harm us/ And lead us not/ away from you.

I struggled against my boss trying to get this incredibly bad arrangement replaced but mercifully left for grad school before having to bring the bishop into a situation in which the director announcing his insistence on doing things the “Place X way” regardless of whether it was licit or not was only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Roselander]

Yes, that’s the one. Where do I get a copy of the GIRM?

 

[Marysann]

Roselander, you can find the GIRM here: www.usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtm.

 

[Digitonomy]

beginning with Musicam sacram I’m pretty sure the Church has consistently stated the text must rule the music, not the other way around.

Here are the relevant parts I found in Musicam sacram:

V. Preparing Melodies For Vernacular Texts
54. In preparing popular versions of those parts which will be set to melodies, and especially of the Psalter, experts should take care that fidelity to the Latin text is suitably harmonized with applicability of the vernacular text to musical settings. The nature and laws of each language must be respected, and the features and special characteristics of each people must be taken into consideration: all this, together with the laws of sacred music, should be carefully considered by musicians in the preparation of the new melodies…

1. Those Episcopal Conferences whom it may concern will ensure that for one and the same language, used in different regions, there will be a single translation. It is also desirable that as far as possible, there should be one or more common melodies for the parts which concern the priest and ministers, and for the responses and acclamations of the people, so that the common participation of those who use the same language may be encouraged.

This is all pretty vague, and I’m really not sure what is being referred to when 58 says “there will be a single translation.” Perhaps just the Order of the Mass. That interpretation would seem to allow variation within the Psalter, but not the Our Father. But that’s supposition based on a 40-year-old document.
Andreas Hofer:

Not being well-read in legislation particular to sacred music I’m not sure if any sort of latitude has subsequently been granted

Nonetheless your wording suggests you have a better idea than me what sources one might look to in order to become well-read… Can you list some? Thanks.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Here are the relevant parts I found in Musicam sacram:This is all pretty vague, and I’m really not sure what is being referred to when 58 says “there will be a single translation.” Perhaps just the Order of the Mass. That interpretation would seem to allow variation within the Psalter, but not the Our Father. But that’s supposition based on a 40-year-old document.Nonetheless your wording suggests you have a better idea than me what sources one might look to in order to become well-read… Can you list some? Thanks.

You didn’t cite a passage that I remember sticking out to me from Musicam sacram, so I’ll have to start by revisiting that text, but as finals week is upon me you’ll have to give me some time to try to fill the order. I’m going off of memory here and will have to see if things are as well-founded as I’m now telling myself they are.

 

[Aramis]

One other thing:

The approved English translations differ from Rite to Rite.

The Our Father differs slightly between the Roman and Ruthenian English Translations

“Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.”
…]
“For thine is the Kingdom, and the Power, and the Glory, Always, Now, and Ever, and Forever.”

The Ruthenian versions of several common prayers differ.

It shouldn’t be terribly noticeable. It sounds like this was far more profound…

 

[erinmlee]

But I’ve always wondered why would God would lead us into temptation either?

I was always somewhat confused by that line as well, until recently I heard Father Corapi talking about it. He basically said it’s just not the greatest translation and that it might help to hear the Spanish version, which translates roughly to “do not allow us to fall into temptation…”

(Hope I got that right, I am far from fluent in Spanish! )

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Well, the best I can do for now is point a little earlier in Musicam sacram to the fact that any deviation from the approved translation for the purposes of musical arrangement has to be approved by the territorial authority, and that 5 years later the same adherence to the approved texts of the liturgy was insisted upon in Liturgicae Instaurationes

(3. The liturgical texts themselves, composed by the Church, are to be treated with the highest respect. No one, then, may take it on himself to make changes, substitutions, deletions, or additions. adoremus.org/LiturgicaeInstaurationes.html)

that has been consistently insisted upon in every liturgical text from Sacrasanctum Concilium through Redemptionis Sacramentum - no one may add or remove anything from the liturgy, he has to use what he is given.

There is no way ICEL could have viewed that Our Father setting as a translation even on its very worst day.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Music in Catholic Worship is a non-binding instruction from the BCL, but it also mentions official versions of the liturgical texts:

**B. Textual Requirements

**32. Does the music express and interpret the text correctly and make it more meaningful? Is the form of the text respected? In making these judgments the principal classes of texts must be kept in mind: proclamations, acclamations, psalms and hymns, and prayers. Each has a specific function which must be served by the music chosen for a text. In most instances there is an official liturgical text approved by the episcopal conference. “Vernacular texts set to music composed in earlier periods,” however, “may be used in liturgical texts.”'3 As noted elsewhere, criteria have been provided for the texts which may replace the processional chants of Mass. In these cases and in the choice of all supplementary music, the texts “must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine; indeed they should be drawn chiefly from holy scripture and from liturgical sources.”'4
usccb.org/liturgy/current/musiccathworship.shtml