Parents Hate Mass and Church

[crmcfl]

I’m with the “don’t nag, pray” crowd. Pray for healing for them, for you, for others who have fallen away that they find their way home again. The best thing you can do is live your faith to the fullest. Don’t worry about changing them. Change you. Chances are they’ll want what you have. Remember, God wants them home even more than you do. Ask Him how you can help.

Also, if, after finding them a church they say is more to their liking, and if they still don’t go, that lets you know that it’s not the real reason. Often people will give a reason that sounds good and the unstated reason sometimes is the real one. For me, I just flat didn’t want to get up and go anywhere on Sunday, but I never said that.

 

[CatholicNick]

attending a schismatic church does not meet a Catholic’s Sunday Mass obligation. The Mass is not subject to personal preference.

Ugh… FSSP and ICRSS Masses do fulfil the Sunday obligation, and are most definately not schismatic in the slightest.

Also - SSPX Masses do strictly fulfil ones sunday obligation:

unavoce.org/articles/2003/perl-011803.htm

Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was “Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass” and our response was:

“1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X.”

His second question was “Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass” and we responded stating:

“2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin.”

 

[puzzleannie]

I lived for 22 years in the Cleveland diocese, yes there is a lot of abuse and a lot of dissenting parishes, there are also a lot of parishes that celebrate Mass strictly according to the norms, no one in Cleveland lives more than 15 minutes away from at least 3 parishes to choose from, and most have multiple Mass times, with different styles of music etc. There is no reason to miss Mass for 10 years. Every Mass in the diocese is not run by hippies. Very likely they could have found a Mass in their own parish with more congenial music, etc. Complaints about how the Mass is “run” are excuses, not reasons, for missing Mass for 10 years. No Catholic with a heart on fire for the faith stays away from the Eucharist willingly.

 

[davy39]

Excuse me, but I would hardly call someone “on fire for the faith” who hasn’t been to Mass in 10 years. I would call them a disobedient fallen away Catholic. We are the laity and we are called to obedience. Jesus Christ is present in the new version of the Mass. It is what the hierarchy of the Church wants us to have at this point in time. We aren’t supposed to boycott it like petulant children, we are supposed to accept it.

It’s nice to try looking for a Mass to your parent’s liking, that’s very kind and helpful. But, I wonder, if they are as devout and traditional as you describe, why aren’t they seeking out the confessional on their own? They are in a serious state of sin missing Mass for so long for no good reason.

I agree! If people don’t want to go to Mass, they will find some excuse no matter what. I’m a pre-Vat 2 Catholic, and I have been to Mass all over the country, and I have yet to find one that makes me sick. I don’t think the Church needs a bunch of Catholics running all over trying to find a Mass, a Church, a priest, the music, or homily that suits them. Don’t blame Vat 2 for all the problems in the Church. We have turned into a Church of whiners who are determined to have everything our own way. But for their sake, encourage them to return to the Church. I did after a 10 year absence, and I have never regretted it. Pray for them!

 

[St_John]

I agree Davy. There is always some aspect of a Mass that will uplift me, even if other parishes conduct things differently and bit outside of my comfort zone. The bottom line is that Jesus Christ is present fully on the altar and for us to partake in. How can someone be sickened by that? I’m really baffled by some of the attitudes expressed here.

 

[lak611]

They live in east of Cleveland, OH. (I live out of town.) Any suggestions for traditional parishes out there?

Immaculate Conception Church, 4129 Superior Ave., has a TLM low Mass at 8:00 a.m. every Sunday and a TLM high Mass at 12:00 p.m. every Sunday. These are licit and valid TLM indult Masses approved by the Bishop.

 

[dympnha]

A lot of people lost their faith after Vatican II. Don’t nag your parents that will just push them further away. Nobody likes being instructed by their child. Pray and suggest ONCE that they attend a traditional Mass and leave at that.

 

[scylla]

I agree Davy. There is always some aspect of a Mass that will uplift me, even if other parishes conduct things differently and bit outside of my comfort zone. The bottom line is that Jesus Christ is present fully on the altar and for us to partake in. How can someone be sickened by that? I’m really baffled by some of the attitudes expressed here.

It is not being sickened by Jesus there but by the people disrespecting our Lord and Saviour. I will fully admit that I am sickened when I see people ignore Jesus, dress inappropriately or try and create their own Mass by introducing their own personal preferences into it.
At the furthest extreme stuff such as Liturgical Dance.
I go to Mass for Jesus, not to express myself and get attention. Full participation means paying attention, praying and responding when necessary it doesn’t mean trying to get attention for yourself by joining the 30 EHMC’s up on the altar.
I know of one EHMC in my parish who actually brings Jesus to the sick and homebound. None of the others I know do that.

It is a question of why do we go to Mass, for Jesus or for our own pleasure. I am disgusted when I see offenses against God, at the very place where we should most respect God.

In Christ
Scylla

Wouldn’t you be saddened\disgusted at the foot of the Cross watching the soldiers jeer at our Lord, while Mary and others knew who it really was on the cross. I want to just let everyone know that Jesus is truly there and we should act like it.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

This is another example of the price paid by many pre-VCII Catholics for the post VCII mayhem. I can really sympathize with your parents. It didn’t happen overnight, but the Latin Mass of the 60s is as alien to the NO mass in most American parishes today as to a Pentecostal service.

There’s always plenty of debate here about the details of liturgy, but what’s not discussed much is that the contemporary liturgy also changed the entire context of faith for many pre-VCII Catholics who had quiet reverence and devotion deeply ingrained in them. We “old timers” see a lot of selfishness in the way the traditional Mass and older practices were were pushed aside with no consideration. And we see a lot of superficiality and phoniness in the artificial “togetherness” of the NO. The Mass has lost its glory, mystery and sanctity and become almost childish in its banality. We half expect the Crucifix to be replaced by a cuddly teddy-bear one of these sundays.

Attending Mass has become a religious obligation in the true sense, because there’s little satisfaction in it. It is not the Mass we were taught, and the way its conducted requires we violate the things we learned when we were young. We don’t participate in it so much as we endure it.

All those tsk-tskers saying “How dare they!” would change their tunes if they were pressured into attending a service that assaulted their religious training and insulted their devotional sensiblities. The NO Mass has the same label, but is a very different article.

Try to find a Latin Mass in your area that your parents can attend. We try to go to a TLM once a month and its a marvelous, comforting event. There should be a number of them in city like Cleveland. I know there are websites that list churches where indulted Latin Mass said nationwide. You may be able to Google it.

Well put, DWPC. Although I did not grow up with the Traditional Latin Mass (but have attended some) I certainly concur with your assessment. I remember that when Evelyn Waugh (wrote Brideshead Revisited) started to experience the liturgical changes he wrote to his Bishop asking what the minimum was he had to attend to fulfill his Sunday obligation. His letters with Cardinal Heenan are interesting and can be found here:

“A Bitter Trial: Evelyn Waugh and John Carmel Cardinal Heenan on the Liturgical Changes”
http://www.theabbeyshop.com/Product...Page=/ProductTree.php?CategoryID=48&PPP=&SP=0

It’s a good book (not too long, though).

I also agree that attending Mass has become an obligation in the true sense as you say. I remember Dr. William Marra saying in “The Pope, The Council, and the Mass”

http://www.keepthefaith.org/detail.aspx?ID=479

(very good talk)

that attending Mass should not have to be an act of heroic obedience. And this is the tragedy of what happened after the Second Vatican Council. There are people who (rightly) are going to attend Mass no matter what. Some of these people are probably converts who have done a lot of research on their own. Yet there are many, as your post alludes to, who aren’t inclined to just attend Mass no matter what. Now, in truly pastoral charity, it would have been nice if the Traditional Latin Mass had not been ripped from them. If that had not happened, I believe many who had stopped attending would still be attending today.

In the case of this man’s parents I agree with pointing out a specific indult Mass and point out that they may just have to suffer the regular banality of the New Mass (even without abuses) and offer up that suffering. After that, I agree with other posters that you don’t want to nag, just pray for them, and make sure you attend Mass yourself. Those graces will extend to them as well. God bless.

 

[scylla]

Yes,

Offer it up, that nun in the pantsuit with short hair, dancing around up there, passing by our Lord without so much as a nod sincerely thinks she is bringing more people into Church by making Mass more interesting.
She has dedicated her life to Jesus and even though she is angry she cannot be a priest wants to serve God. Her thinking has just been hijacked by a “me” society and feminism. We need to offer it up and pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Love them and help them think of what God wants, not what they want.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[lak611]

A lot of people lost their faith after Vatican II. Don’t nag your parents that will just push them further away. Nobody likes being instructed by their child. Pray and suggest ONCE that they attend a traditional Mass and leave at that.

As I said in my earlier post, Immaculate Conception Church on Superior Ave. has a traditional Latin Low Mass every Sunday at 8:00 a.m. and a traditional Latin High Mass every Sunday at 12:00 p.m. every Sunday. These Masses are approved by the Bishop who heads the Diocese of Cleveland, so they fulfill the Sunday obligation. I have attended a few because I am a post Vatican II Catholic, due to my age, and they are beautiful. They are not the modern Mass done in Latin, but rather, they are the Mass, as it was offered in 1962, and the High Mass has all the “smells and bells”. The priest faces backwards to the congregation and the altar boys (Low Mass) or the choir (High Mass) answer the prayers. I’m sure your parents would love either of these Masses.

 

[cutiesmak]

Thank you so much for the mass suggestions. I will definitely suggest Immaculate Conception (then maybe I can ferret out the REAL reason they don’t go… heehee). It’s very kind of everyone to do the research. I found it kind of tough to locate as the Diocese of Cleveland’s website wasn’t all that helpful.

I agree with the pray part too, of course. Nagging will never win them over!

On another note, they stopped attending mass not only because of the ceremony side of it, but also because they started seeing evidence of liberal Catholicism everywhere. I don’t agree with them, and I think that the Lord works through imperfect vessels, but they had issues with the curriculum at my brother’s Catholic high school, articles in the Universe Bulletin, and specific issues with their own church (like the people there being kind of awful and wacky).

I guess this started me thinking about the wider issue of people blaming the Church for the behavior of individuals. My parents’ theory is liberal diocese = liberal council of bishops = liberal Vatican, which is not really the case. And I get so steemed when people blame the actions of certain people acting of their own volition on the Church.

ANYWAY… off my soap box. Thankfully my DH and I live 1500 miles away and can selectively tune out their anti-Catholic rants!

 

[lak611]

Here’s the phone number for Immaculate Conception Church: 216-431-5900.