Parents' Role in Adult Relationships

[BlueEyedLady]

I am starting this thread partially in response to the courting thread. There the consensus seems to be that parents should play a very strong role in the romantic lives of their kids. However, as AthenaC pointed out on another thread people often make the claim that if you are ready to date seriously or marry then you need to be making romantic decisions independent of your parents.

So I’m creating this thread as a discussion of exactly what role parents should play, and what factors affect that role.

I would ask that this thread stay charitable, because I think there’s a lot of room for reasonable people to disagree, and I think that this is an interesting subject all its own, so I don’t want to derail the other threads.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Follow up questions because I was in a hurry: Does the age or gender affect the role? What about geography? If you do think that parents should have a big role what happens if the kids live far away? Does this role extend to complete veto power? Is a child obligated to at least try do date a specific person if that’s what their parents want? How much should parents be told about the relationship?

 

[FullOfThought]

Firstly, I never read the courting thread but I have to say I am surprised with your summary… was the really the consenus? I already disagree I think… my values are a lot more traditional that my parents and if they had been involved in my husband and I relationship we probably would have ended up living together, pregnant etc way before marriage! Different values even though they consider themselves Catholic!

Plus I wouldn’t want a relationship anything like theirs! I should read this courting thread!

 

[TrixieMcGee]

Well, in an ideal world all of our parents would be Catholic like us and know what our best interests are and want what is best for us. This is not always the case. I am the only Catholic person in my family and I am a pretty recent convert. Most of my family are evangelical fundementalists, except my Dad and Step-mom who are New Age. I started dating my now husband before I converted and none of my family except my Dad and Step-mom approved of my Catholic boyfriend because he was Catholic. They don’t believe Catholics are Christian and were worried about me yolking myself with an “unbeliever”. (I became more and more Catholic in my beliefs and eventually converted just in time for us to have a Nuptial Mass)

Some of my family members told one of the Pastors at my old Church about me dating a Catholic and then had an active role in excommunicating me from the the Church for dating him. They did this while he was at boot camp. I was given a decision, either dump him and have nothing more to do with the Roman Catholic Church, or be excommunicated. I decided excommunication. I am so glad I did.

I ended marrying this Catholic man and we are so happy and fulfilled in our marriage.My family and my parents didn’t know what was best for me or share my religious beliefs. Sometimes families and/or parents don’t know what is best for you.

It is wonderful if your family approves of your significant other and most of the time this is a good sign, but it is a case to case thing. My parents (at least my Mom and Step-dad) met my husband on our first date when he picked me up and spent a lot of time with him. Everybody liked him as a person, which was a very good sign, but didn’t like that he was Catholic. When you are an adult, you have to use your best judgement in whatever situation to decide what is best for you. How your parents feel about it can help you make your decision, but not always.

 

[AthenaC]

I think it depends on:

1. Your relationship with your parents
2. Whether or not you can trust their judgment

Now, #2 is very broad and covers all manner of things, from whether you can trust them (period), or whether they get too wrapped up in personal preferences (as opposed to core character traits).

It seems that a lot of people advocating for parents to have a larger role take for granted their own easy cooperation and healthy relationship with their parents. I can tell you that if my parents had picked my husband, it would not have lasted very long. First, I can point to a pattern of bad advice from my mom that it took me years to break the habit of following (as a good, obedient Catholic girl). So I don’t trust her judgment. Second, my parents’ marriage is SO different from anything that I would be happy in. For example, I love being affectionate, where my mother speaks disdainfully of affection.

 

[George_Stegmeir]

Unfortunately in the US, many parents refuse to relinquish parental control of their children until they are legally adults plus. Many times, a young man cannot cut moms apron strings until he gets into the military, and even then many moms will try to interfere by writing letters to Congressmen, Senators, or even the President complaining about how their sons/daughters are being treated. Oh yes, this is far more common than you think and it is a major problem for those in command. There used to be a saying in the professional cadre of the navy, that the navy’s worst enemy was mothers!
American youth are coddled as children far longer than in any other society on earth,…and this translates into outright interferrence in their children’s marriages.
Why do you think mother-in-law jokes are many comedian’s stock in trade? These jokes are considered funny because there is a lot of truth in them.
I’ve often wondered why there have been no sociological studies done on the effect of parential interference on the divorce rate. Perhaps the results would be politically too explosive!
And no, I married after I had been on my own- well away from my parents for over 10 years, and my wife (now deceased) was in graduate school when I met her, having been away from home for almost 6 years…so we were both adults on our own…even so, my mother didn’t approve and refused to talk to either of us for over 5 years. My attitude was so what, it’s her loss. My loyalty was to my wife, not my mother. My father, even though he did not approve of my career, was a real stand up guy, and supported my decision.

 

[underacloud]

I am starting this thread partially in response to the courting thread. There the consensus seems to be that parents should play a very strong role in the romantic lives of their kids.

Consensus?

I was involved in that thread and I think I have a very different view regarding whether there was any sort of consensus on that issue.

I think if people value their parent’s advice, that’s great.

I think if grown adults don’t value their parent’s advice, then they should make the best decisions they can for themselves.

Most people probably sit in the middle here, so should value their parent’s opinions to some degree regarding their choice of courter/date and the manner in which they conduct themselves.

Either way, I think there are conversations that any couple should have when exploring their relationship and considering marriage that should remain private and not be passed on to parents for their consideration.

I also think it’s important for a couple to start to make choices for themselves, as adults, and establish themselves as an independent entity. Some marriages can be so dominated or overshadowed by in-laws that boundaries need to be established at some point. At what point this is will depend on how reasonable the couple’s parents are to begin with, how long the couple has been courting/dating, how old they are, their intentions to marry, etc…

 

[chevalier]

Let’s start with canon law:

Can. 1057 §1. The consent of the parties, legitimately manifested between persons qualified by law, makes marriage; no human power is able to supply this consent.

Can. 1103 A marriage is invalid if entered into because of force or grave fear from without, even if unintentionally inflicted, so that a person is compelled to choose marriage in order to be free from it.

Consequently, parental consent is not required for a valid marriage to exist and especially parents cannot eliminate the lack of consent in a child (and pressuring a child into marriage can result in an invalid marriage).

The above is also the reason I react with strong opposition to the idea of parental “permission” for marriage or parental veto if parents don’t like the candidate. This said, I value the advice of my parents a lot and a while ago, at my age of 29, I was surprised to hear that my father had a very spot-on idea of what type of lady I “needed” (which was very similar to what I “wanted”, anyway) and could verbalise it more easily than I. Which is surprising given how little time we’ve ever spent together. I’d value a lot the insight of my mother who knows me a lot better and is much closer to me, too. Still, this is counsel, not will or command. The will of my parents doesn’t enter the picture.

I believe people who give weight to the will of earthly parents of the bride and groom to the point of letting them pick the spouse for their child according to their liking are mistaken and in a dangerous way (as much as many people would perhaps be better off if they had listened to the parental veto). It can be a carryover from a previous fundamentalist Protestant belief.

The above was my opinion about the choice of spouse and the decision to marry someone. As regards dating, I find it an insane idea to involve parents in a role like permissions, curfews, chaperoning, laying down the “rules” etc. I’d play along with a woman who wanted me to see her father so that the father could read me (but no insulting interrogations). In fact, I’d very much appreciate the seriousness and caution and shrewd wisdom in it. Curfew if she lives with her parents and they “force” it on her doesn’t count, either. But that’s the limit actually. Parents making decisions for a twenty-something, let alone thirty-something lady = chev out.

 

[1ke]

The Catechism section on the 4th commandment provides guidance that answers this question:

2215 Respect for parents (filial piety) derives from gratitude toward those who, by the gift of life, their love and their work, have brought their children into the world and enabled them to grow in stature, wisdom, and grace. “With all your heart honor your father, and do not forget the birth pangs of your mother. Remember that through your parents you were born; what can you give back to them that equals their gift to you?”

2217 … As they grow up, children should continue to respect their parents. They should anticipate their wishes, willingly seek their advice, and accept their just admonitions. Obedience toward parents ceases with the emancipation of the children; not so respect, which is always owed to them. This respect has its roots in the fear of God, one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

2230 When they become adults, children have the right and duty to choose their profession and state of life. They should assume their new responsibilities within a trusting relationship with their parents, willingly asking and receiving their advice and counsel. Parents should be careful not to exert pressure on their children either in the choice of a profession or in that of a spouse. This necessary restraint does not prevent them - quite the contrary from giving their children judicious advice, particularly when they are planning to start a family.

Our duty as children is to give respect and seek advice. The duty of parents is to give judicious advice, but not to exert pressure regarding choice of a spouse.

I think, though, that you are comparing apples and oranges. In the courting thread, what is being talked about is the above-- the role of parents in giving judicious advice, getting to know the potential mate and guiding their children through the virtue of prudence and wisdom. Yes, children should be guided in their decision making, even if they are adults. Heck my DH and I didn’t meet until I was 36, and yes if my mom had pulled me aside and said there was something amiss, I would have listened to her and hopefully either worked through her concerns OR proved them unfounded OR come to realize there was a problem. But ultimately it is the adullt child’s decision and the parent must respect it even if it is not to their liking. Parents can give advice, but they don’t have a “say”.

OTOH, what is being talked about in that other thread is a set of parents holding college money hostage and threatening to disown and not speak to a grown woman if she gets married in the next six years!!! That is clearly violating everything the 4th commandment requires of parents of grown children. Blackmail and manipulation are NOT the same thing as judicious advice. If these parents were actually giving any advice (perhaps the real issue is they don’t like the guy and have some valid concerns as to why he isn’t right for her but think if they threaten and manipulate her into going off to med school without him she’ll eventually forget him), the girl would do well to listen. They are not giving advice however, they are manipulating and are out of line (based on the facts presented).

 

[chevalier]

I think, though, that you are comparing apples and oranges. In the courting thread, what is being talked about is the above-- the role of parents in giving judicious advice, getting to know the potential mate and guiding their children through the virtue of prudence and wisdom.

All of those courting threads sooner or later have someone expounding how people supposedly need to obey their parents in the choice of spouse or at the very least need permission to marry and permission to date, court or otherwise accost.

 

[1ke]

All of those courting threads sooner or later have someone expounding how children need to obey parents in the choice of spouse or at the very least need permission to marry and permission to date, court or otherwise accost.

While I am sure that there are people out there who hold such an opinoin, such a statement is inconsistent with Catholic teaching.

 

[chevalier]

While I am sure that there are people out there who hold such an opinoin, such a statement is inconsistent with Catholic teaching.

That it is. It even looks bad from the point of view of canon law (although there’s no black & white contradiction).

 

[Kelfa28]

Firstly, I never read the courting thread but I have to say I am surprised with your summary… was the really the consenus? I already disagree I think… my values are a lot more traditional that my parents and if they had been involved in my husband and I relationship we probably would have ended up living together, pregnant etc way before marriage! Different values even though they consider themselves Catholic!

Plus I wouldn’t want a relationship anything like theirs! I should read this courting thread!

Well…this is exactly what happened to me.

My parents loved my then boyfriend…now husband.

He was the first and only man I’ve ever been seriously involved with…he is smart, respectable, responsible and driven.

However, when you have two sets of parents that not only ignore this behavior…but encourage it…you have a couple engage in sin, upon sin, upon sin. Our relationship moved way too fast in the beginning (we were living together within a year) and then slowed down…making me realize my husband was comfortable.

My mom kept saying…“oh, you two are practically married…”

Three years later I was pregnant and the whole family was overjoyed.

We had discussed our faith with each other before…and started going to church together. Then we started RCIA…that was when my life felt like it was coming apart…I was so upset and angry that no one had told me what we had done was wrong and now I had put my marriage in serious danger.

I really wished I had parents that could have given me more guidance and information…without it…I was seriously lost.

 

[FullOfThought]

Well…this is exactly what happened to me.

My parents loved my then boyfriend…now husband.

He was the first and only man I’ve ever been seriously involved with…he is smart, respectable, responsible and driven.

However, when you have two sets of parents that not only ignore this behavior…but encourage it…you have a couple engage in sin, upon sin, upon sin. Our relationship moved way too fast in the beginning (we were living together within a year) and then slowed down…making me realize my husband was comfortable.

My mom kept saying…“oh, you two are practically married…”

Three years later I was pregnant and the whole family was overjoyed.

We had discussed our faith with each other before…and started going to church together. Then we started RCIA…that was when my life felt like it was coming apart…I was so upset and angry that no one had told me what we had done was wrong and now I had put my marriage in serious danger.

I really wished I had parents that could have given me more guidance and information…without it…I was seriously lost.

That is sad that you’re parents encouraged you like that, but I truely believe that you must be an amazing example to the rest of your family! AND you and your husband started RCIA togther!? That must have been the most wonderful day entering into the fullness of the Church with your husband!!!

 

[sunshineaboveme]

I am in a situation with my mother against my relationship.

I am still 21, have not moved out yet, in a long distance relationship with a responsible catholic man,however my mom is opposing everything about our relationship, etc… she hates our traditional catholic belief and encourages me to build a career first bfore going back home and plan my marriage life. She wants me to spend more years abroad in order to help her in many little ways. If i pursue my desire to leave them, i am afraid that my mom would treat me bad or would hold a grudge on me. I am still attached ot my mother’s love and it would truly hurt me imagining that… however, I love my boyfriend and in the past years that we have been together, I ALWAYS tried giving him up or breaking up with him… but we always end up fixing things… right now, everything is up to me… to leave my parents and fly a thousand miles away to be near him and get married eventually or leaving this guy who waited me for almost two years now and has put up with a lot of my mood swings, emotional days and weaknesses in fighting temptations…

 

[KCT]

eee- gads! I would never want the responsibility of making a choice of a spouse for one of my kids.