Parish demanding donations

[mary_bobo]

You know, rather than feel bad, you might consider that you are in a special circumstance. Based on what you write, I would consider yours a special case! Being married out of the faith to someone of a hostile religion is very tough.

Indeed it is a tough situation to be in. Let’s all pray for our fellow poster and her spouse that God may soften his heart.

 

[mary_bobo]

I have not read all the posts on this subject, so please forgive if I repeat what has already been said. Our parish publishes the total of the previous week’s collection—right under the amount needed for the parish each week. That way we all can see how far behind, or ahead, we might be. Our pastor frequently thanks the parishoners for their generosity and says that some have more to give than others but God does not look favorably on one or the other. Sometimes, as recently, we had a very expensive repair to be made and Father asked us that week to be as generous as we could. Next week he told us that repair had been made.

I doubt any priest likes to have to talk finances with those in the church, but sometimes it is necessary. Whatever you give, don’t feel bad because perhaps it is not as much as the guy next to you. God knows what is in your heart.

 

[chicago]

Wow, that’s really sad. I know the parish I was complaining about is undergoing renovations and construction as well, and it’s hard to give to 2 parishes. I feel as though it’s my duty to give to both since I attend one and am a member of the other. I guess if I were teaching catechism at the current parish I’d switch over, but I rather teach it in Spanish, since I am more comfortable with the prayers and the Bible in Spanish. I attend Mass in English, but it’s a whole different story.

Are you teaching catechism at the parish where you are a “member”? That might be your gift there, already, if you are.

So, even the Music minister is a paid person? I thought all who belong to any ministry were volunteers. I knew the rectory needs employees, but didn’t know the music people were paid staff. Gosh, if other denominations can do it all as volunteers, why can’t the CC do it? Even the JWs do it all free of charge, except for those of the governing body… I would NEVER accept money for anything I did for the CC. I believe the priest and some other staff should always get paid, but for some things, I wish people would just do it because they wanted to do some more for the parish… shows how much I know…

Just as the teachers at a parish school need to receive a salary for sustenance, or the parish secretary, so do the people who provide music and have made it their career. Many of the music director positions at parishes are, indeed, full time. They often also serve as liturgy director, perhaps handle the choir, a children’s group, play organ or another instrument, arrange for proper amplification and all, are available for funerals and weddding and their preparation. It’s a talent which takes time and effort to develop. So while they are certainly free to offer it on a volunteer basis if it is limited and they so choose, they are also justly entitled to compensation for their services. Musicans have eat, too!

 

[otjm]

I attend Mass at the Cathedral Church in the heart of one of the wealthiest areas of town (I live way on the outer edge

Our Music Minister quit a while back because he/she was told there wasn’t money for a raise. Last week, I found out that of the 2800 registered families in the Parish, one thousand families have NEVER donated even :twocents: - 900 of those receive envelopes.

I think what you may have found out is that 1000 families have not made any recorded donations. That is a little bit different than saying they have never made any dontations.

I have never beeen at a Sunday Mass that I have not seen cash donations. Cash donations are donations just like those in envelopes; however, they cannot be recorded to any individual or group of individuals as they come with no identifier.

There are numerous reasons that people do not use an envelope - they don’t have one; they lost them; they forgot to pick one up on the way out of the house; they do not want someone (the pastor, the finance person, etc.) to know how much they donate; they cannot donate regularly; they do not donate regularly; the list goes on.

Someone sticking in a $20 bill each week without an envelope is donating just as much as someone sticking it in an envelope; but one has no tax accounting and one does. The IRS has a certain “presumed” level of giving in cash, so unless one claims an inordinate amount of donations, one is not going to need an accounting.

Please be careful of how you make statements; that may be what you were told, and if it was, whoever told you did not state the case very carefully.

 

[yessisan]

Are you teaching catechism at the parish where you are a “member”? That might be your gift there, already, if you are.

yes, I do teach at the parish I am a member of. I just hate to not give money because they’re finally starting a 10 yr -long due renovation, and they are still short of money to complete the budget requirement. I was attending there on and off since 1999 (I say on and off because I used to only go on Easter and Christmas when I didn’t really care about religion, now I go every Sunday)

So you know what I mean, the walls on this parish have huge cracks that lead to the stained glass windows, and if it’s not fixed, the glass might fall off, it’s an old building, and I mean OLD!! It’s been there since the mid 1800s. It’s basically a California Mission, but it’s not recognized as one of the famous ones.

Just as the teachers at a parish school need to receive a salary for sustenance, or the parish secretary, so do the people who provide music and have made it their career. Many of the music director positions at parishes are, indeed, full time. They often also serve as liturgy director, perhaps handle the choir, a children’s group, play organ or another instrument, arrange for proper amplification and all, are available for funerals and weddding and their preparation. It’s a talent which takes time and effort to develop. So while they are certainly free to offer it on a volunteer basis if it is limited and they so choose, they are also justly entitled to compensation for their services. Musicans have eat, too!

Geez… and all this time I thought I was the only one who ate food… just kidding … we have a very close family friend who plays the guitar and sings on the choir for one of the parishes close to my house, and I always thought she did it for free. She has sucha wonderful voice, every time I hear her sing it makes me cry (but I think that’s only because she sang at my uncle’s funeral and memorial services)

 

[kage_ar]

Some parishes have staff music directors or staff in different music ministries, some are all volunteer, and some are a mix.

 

[CarrieH]

Yes. Charitable donations are tax deductible. If you itemize you can definitely take them. If not, I don’t know.

“If you itemize” is the operative phrase here. Those of us whose deductions don’t exceed the standard deduction don’t get any extra tax benefits from greater contributions. Spiritual benefits are their own payback, however!

I agree that people should support their parish financially and be “cheerful givers.” But sometimes I’m one of those who puts $1 in the offering basket. Why? Because once a month I write a substantial check for my main offering. I don’t like writing extra checks, but I don’t want to let the basket go past without putting in a little something extra. So if anybody is tempted to look unkindly toward me for putting in only a dollar, they are the ones in the wrong.

 

[Sheeniac]

otjm - I think the rules have since changed in terms of tax deductions. If you claim $250 from a single charity, you must have a receipt.

CarrieH - Wonderful point!

 

[CarrieH]

Many of the music director positions at parishes are, indeed, full time…So while they are certainly free to offer it on a volunteer basis if it is limited and they so choose, they are also justly entitled to compensation for their services. Musicans have eat, too!

That may be true in the larger cities, but around here, only a couple of the larger churches have full-time music directors. The rest get by with part-time directors who are paid, but who need second jobs in order to put food on the table. And it’s only the director (who usually does double-duty as organist/pianist) who gets paid; we cantors, choir members, and instrumentalists are volunteers. I just consider my singing and flute-playing to be part of my general offering of “time, talent, and treasure,” and hope that I get enough extra for doing paid weddings and funerals to cover the cost of the gas to get me to the church and back!

 

[chicago]

That may be true in the larger cities, but around here, only a couple of the larger churches have full-time music directors. The rest get by with part-time directors who are paid, but who need second jobs in order to put food on the table.

Same goes for the “big cities”. Larger parishes which can afford it have a music director. Others maybe have an organist part who gets paid per play, if anything at all.

And it’s only the director (who usually does double-duty as organist/pianist) who gets paid; we cantors, choir members, and instrumentalists are volunteers. I just consider my singing and flute-playing to be part of my general offering of “time, talent, and treasure,” and hope that I get enough extra for doing paid weddings and funerals to cover the cost of the gas to get me to the church and back!

Again, I think this would be the norm everywhere. While there are certainly some parish choirs who get stipends for each event they sing/play for, they great majority have most members as volunteers. Or perhaps a cantor alone recieves a small amont of cash.

Still, even with a mostly volunteers, if there is a music director or organist involved, that’s likely a full salary on the parish budget.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

And the parish tech likes to eat, as well.

 

[Philothea53]

Beseides our Priest, a Sister who serves as Pastoral Associate, we have a Church secretary, a Director of Outreach Ministries, a Facilities Manager, a Business Manager, an Accountant, someone over CCD Grades 1-6, a Youth Minister who is also over CCD 7 and High School, the Director of Music Ministry AND an Associate Minister of Music.

I never even imagined this was anything less than the norm. I attend the Cathedral Church and their are 2800 registered families.

 

[AldaMaria_Rizzo]

Yessisan, God Bless you and may we all follow your example, we must support our parishes and churches, after all the church is the Bride of Christ, thank you so much,

 

[AldaMaria_Rizzo]

The Jewish people of the Hebrew Texts [OT to us] were given a place of honor in Go’d plan of salvation. They had Moses, th Law and the Prophets. They were also instructed on their stewardship role…Tithe 10%, giving to Gad the first fruits, the Sabbath rest [which was the 7th day for worship, the seventh year for other things like leaving the filed to lay fallow every 7th years - a good practice to let the land rejuvinate, the Jubilee years when slaves were set free and all debts forgiven].

I hear often how we are not OT people and we do not have to Tithe 10% or any specified amount. We are to give from "our hearts". I have seen that in these posts along with a condemnation of anyone who might call us to account. I see references to giving ‘what I can’ etc.

Well, I just have a few observations:

First of all when Ananias and his wife sold their property and gave the proceeds to the church [but held back some for themselves] Peter called them to task and they were struck dead. Now there are* no priests that I am aware and who may lack tact in requesting parish support* who have had a parishioner die for their lack of charity!

---

Secondly; All that we possess, our abilities used to obtain work, our talents, everything is a gift from God. While we are not given a specified amount [like the 10%] were are called to give according to what we have been given.

Now the question becomes what have we been given? First and most important: We have been given our salvation and that salvation came at the hishest price…The death of Jesus on the cross for our sins! Thankfully, Jesus did not say no one had the right to question His gift and he gave only what he could [which means from His leftovers - the abundance]

Jesus founded a Church to assist us in our salvation. A plavce at which to come and partake of the Eucharist, the learn the scriptures, receive Reconcilliation. A place to come and be baptized and married. A place to become family, united, one as JEsus and the Father are One.

The challenge for Christians is to give according to what we have been given…TIME, TALENT and TREASURE

If being given Moses, the Law and the Prophets meant 10%…

How much more is expected and should be given from our hearts for the sacraficial atonement of Jesus?

We are called to give from our NEED not from our EXCESS…

A starting place for Christians is 10% [and for those in poverty who truly cannot begin there they need to give as the Widow did with her mite - which was not after her needs were taken care of but before]. 4% to 5% in support of the parish…1% support of the Diocese and 5% in support of other charitable causes. A place to start…then you should look at where you can increase your thanksgiving to God for all that you have received.

If you contribute TIME, TALENT annd TREASURE without feeling the gift…you have not truly given of yourself…IMHO

WONDERFULLY SAID AND YOU GAVE US HISTORICS AND REASONS ONE CANNOT DENY, I LOVE YOU!!! ONE DAY JESUS WILL WELCOME YOU IN HEAVEN YADA, THAT’S WHERE YOU BELONG, GOD BLESS YOU, ALDA MARIA

 

[Bob265]

Many catholics get really angry when “the parish” brings up money. The fact of the matter is that most catholics are giving less than 1% of their income to in regular giving to their parish.

We as a parishiners are shareholders. The Church is all of us, not the building and not some other entity. We need to pay ourselves first. We can do this by examining the bibical concept of the tithe. The tithe is mentioned over 40 times in the bible and it should be the goal we all aim for. Maybe you can’t afford to give 10% now. Pray for gods guidance on a percent say start at 1% and each year try to bump it up a bit. Most Parishes would be able to meet their needs if people gave as little as 2 to 2.5%. I used to open envelopes at my church and help total up the weekly giving. Surprisingly a large number of catholics give 1 to 5 dollars and never increase their “love gift”.

The best talk on this subject I have ever heard was at a nondenominational mega church. The paster gave a handout of 9 apples and one rotting apple core. He gave an insipired talk about the tithe finishing with, “Most of us don’t want to give back to god even the rotten core of one apple”.

We are called to build up treasures in heaven by giving our money, time and talent. If GOD depends on us to give a worthy gift to him, what should we expect in return from him when we stand before him when we die. We can lie to ourselves about our treasures and what we can afford to give. Ultimately we can not lie to GOD. He knows what we can afford. Over and over again in the bible we see stories of GOD testing his people to see if they will remain faithful. Unfortunatley many of us are failing his test of our faithfulness.

 

[benedictgal]

My PV hates talking about money. That is one of the subjects he dreads. However, when he served as our cathedral’s first rector, he dedicated one homily to stewardship (we usually picked the readings that closely matched the topic. A week prior to his homily, he would have different people from the parish talk to us about their personal experiences with stewardship (after teh Post-Communion prayer). Stewardship inserts would be placed in the bulletin to prep us for his homily. The next week, he tied his homily into the notion of stewardship. He would talk about stewardship as being a two-way commitment between the parish and ourselves. After the homily, we filled out our commitment cards. He even filled one out. Yes, he, too, contributed his fair share to the parish. During the collection, we placed our pledges into the basket (along with the normal contribution). Now, he told us that this was not a binding contract; if for some reason we couldn’t meet it, he wasn’t going to “kick us out” of the parish. He understdood that situations crop up. However, he wanted us to make an effort.

He also didn’t like the idea of forcing the parishioners into a corner and browbeating them. The way he presented the 10% approach was that five percent goes to the parish, then three percent to the diocese and two percent to a charity. Personally, I’d rather split mine and give the parish a higher number and then donate directly to Peter’s Pence and certain special collections (retirement fund for religious and Cross International). For Peter’s Pence, I go online to the Vatican website and make my contribution there.

Needless to say, the collections increased steadily from that point forward. We were running a pretty healthy balance up until the new administrator came in and he had more a “put up your hands and reach for the sky” approach. This led to a downward spiral in parish contributions. It is only slowly beginning to get better now that another administrator has taken the reins.

When my PV got to his current assignment, he helped the pastor get a stewardship program going in our parish. He took the same approach that he did when he was at the cathedral. People have responded positively and we are slowly getting to our goal. At both the cathedral and in his parish, my PV took a positive approach and really inspired us. He made me feel guily about spending money on BE makeup (although he told me to do us all a favor and keep America beautifuli ).

I am still contributing what I can to my parish and also giving to the special collections and Peter’s Pence directly. I got a pleasant surprise from the Vatican in that I got a thank you email from the prelate overseeing Peter’s Pence (I know it was automated, but, it’s still nice) along with the Holy Father’s Apostolic Blessing. Of course, that’s not the reason why I do it, but, it was a very nice thing.

My PV certainly didn’t like the approach similar to what the OP noted. That is not the way to get people to give money. This campaign needs to be made in charity. To be honest with you, I even dread the Diocesan Catholic Sharing Appeal because we have to watch a video touting what we have accomplished as a diocese (not much) and what we need. That is one campaign that I shy away from every year. I’d rather increase my contribution to the parish and the Holy Father. At least I know I can see results.

I think that the worst solicitation I have seen is one from my dad’s parish. This even beats the OP. The pastor worte that “in this time of giving, please remember your parish as we have many needs and repairs to make. To our more wealthy parishioners, we urge you to increase your contribution, as we are now approaching the end of the tax year.” As I read this, I wanted to choke. Of course, the pastor didn’t tell the parish that he spent $250,000 in remodeling a perfectly sound rectory. He also had silent auctions in the sanctuary last year to raise money. He had the sacred art pieces on display next to the ambo and had the bid sheet on the communion rail. People were even making their bids after receiving Holy Communion. He has had to dip into the savings (that the previous pastor left behind - a very sizeable amount) because the parish only takes in about $1,000 a week.

To the OP, there are worse ways of soliciting donations, as you can see from this very real instance I just cited, just as there are some very good ways to call attention to a parish’s very real financial needs.

 

[davy39]

Catholics, at least in our diocese, are not very generous with their donations. My wife and I are retired on a fixed income, but we try to do our share. I realize a dollar bill in the basket doesn’t go very far, although some people think it does. But now they have an excuse for not giving. They believe it goes to the priest abuse cases, and no where else. Maybe some does, I don’t know, but witholding funds isn’t the way to solve this problem.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I had never heard of a parish asking for money, more like, demanding money. I always was suprised when people said otherwise, but now I have lived it myself. The parish I belonged to never demanded money from the parishoners. The monetary issues were always on the bulletin and it said whether or not there were deficits, but never demanded more money.

But this new parish has the financial committee actually stand in front by the altar and give a speech on how parishoners aren’t contributing enough. That those who have envelopes should give more money, and those who have an EFT automatic deduction from their accounts should at least give $5 each Sunday. I was angry at the fact that they are demanding people to give more! How can they do this? I’m pretty sure people give what they can afford, maybe some can give more, but how dare they scold everyone and demand more money? I’m still a member of my old Parish and was thinking of switching to this one, but I don’t think I want to after this. It sounds just like the JWs demanding for money!

I cannot believe this woman acted this way in the middle of Mass. I mean, they even passed around a paper with the expenses, donations, and shortages during Mass. Yes, it’s our duty to give, but how can they demand we give more. What if we can’t afford to?? I’m outraged!

It is also important for the " financial committee" to start looking at ways to cut expenses. Start eliminating programs that are not part of the Mission of the Church Evangelization, Adult Catechesis are the two primary after the celebration of the Sacraments. You don’t need heat or lights for Mass or Confession. A 5gal bucket is all that is needed for Baptisms.

 

[Cathryn]

My husband and I have a Mormon friend who has told us that in his church those who can not afford to give what they consider a decent amount are assigned a counselor and the counselor meets with the person and goes over the persons bank accounts considers their salary etc and “helps” them budget how to first give to church.

So many people tossing in a dollar into the basket is a big problem for our parishes. How many people would write a check for a dollar with their name on it?

 

[AldaMaria_Rizzo]

GIVE, GIVE WHAT YOU CAN, AND IF THERE’S ANY LEFT GIVE THAT TOO, EVERYTHING WILL BE GIVEN BACK IN TENFOLDS OR MORE…HEAVEN ETERNAL!!! FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT GIVE, DON’T FEEL BAD, PRAY, ONE DAY AS IT WILL BE GIVEN TO YOU, IT’LL BE YOUR CUE TO GIVE BACK. REFLECTING UPON THE GIFTS OUR LORD HAS IN STORE FOR US, HOW CAN WE HOLD BACK, ESPECIALLY IF ONE IS CHATHOLIC. DON’T JUDGE, NOT ONE OF US LIKES TO BE JUDGED, THE PRIESTS ARE JESUS’ REPRESENTATIVES, PLEASE, JUST BECAUSE THERE IS ONE BAD APPLE IN THE BUNCH, DO NOT CONDEMN THE REST. GOD WILL REMOVE THE BAD ONES AND REWARD THE GOOD ONES, DON’T YOU WANT TO BE THAT ONE? RIGHT NOW MY FINANCIALS ARE THE PITS, BUT I STILL TRY TO GIVE A TWENTY HERE AND THERE, AND IF THERE ARE REWARDS AWAITING, I WILL GIVE MUCH MORE. IF ONE CAN, THAT IS THE REWARD ITSELF, AS THERE ARE SO MANY THAT TRULY CANNOT, PLEASE LOVE OUR PRIESTS, THEY WILL GUIDE US TO ETERNAL BLISS. EVERYONE HAVE A MERRY XMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR, AND MAMMA ANGELICA, TI VOGLIO TANTO BENE, STAI CON NOI, NON CI LASCIARE, ALDA