Parish Hopping - is it OK?

[Desertsilver]

What you need to know, first of all, is that a parish is a territory. It’s a geographical location. It is not a church building.

All of the Catholics living in a certain, defined area comprise that parish.

All Catholics are members of the parish where they live.*

This is disturbing to me. As a convert, absolutely nothing about this was ever mentioned in RCIA.

I have 3 Catholic churches within 20 minutes of my house. The one literally down the block is very focused on teens and seniors. All bible studies and most volunteer ministries are geared towards people available during normal work hours. I work, and will always have to work.

So I registered and attend the one with bible studies and volunteer opportunities available in the evenings. But how would I know if I’m in the correct parish?

I looked up the Diocese website; 92 churches! No mention or maps of territories that I could find… anywhere. How is one supposed to find this info?

 

[FrDavid96]

This is disturbing to me. As a convert, absolutely nothing about this was ever mentioned in RCIA.

I have 3 Catholic churches within 20 minutes of my house. The one literally down the block is very focused on teens and seniors. All bible studies and most volunteer ministries are geared towards people available during normal work hours. I work, and will always have to work.

So I registered and attend the one with bible studies and volunteer opportunities available in the evenings. But how would I know if I’m in the correct parish?

I looked up the Diocese website; 92 churches! No mention or maps of territories that I could find… anywhere. How is one supposed to find this info?

Not everything that is true will necessarily be provided on a diocese website.
Unfortunately, we have come to expect that websites will give everyone every bit of information that might ever be needed. This simply is not the case.
I cannot find the “Rite of Baptism for Children” on my diocese website, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t use the Rite. Anyway, that’s nothing more than a general observation about how we, as a society, are beginning to think about the internet. Sometimes we expect too much from web pages.

How does one find out? That’s a good question. There’s no one answer (certainly not “go to the website”). I can say that at my own parish, we welcome both visitors and new arrivals. We are hospitable. When a family says “we just moved here” then either I or the secretary (or maybe even another parishioner) ask “where do you live?” If the answer is within the boundaries, we know that they are parishioners. If they don’t live in the territory, we refer them to their proper parish, while telling them that they are always welcome here as visitors. Every parish will handle their own registration procedures differently; although we have to keep in mind that registration does not equate to membership.

Since you describe that parish church as being “literally down the block” then its very likely that you live in the territory of that parish–extremely likely.

You need not worry. If there was a problem, the pastor would have mentioned it to you.

My concern here (on this and similar threads) is about people on the internet who encourage others to disregard parish boundaries, or who give bad advice in that regard. One person might live in a place where boundaries are treated rather loosely, but could be giving advice to someone else; maybe directly, or maybe indirectly because countless others will read these posts without actually participating in the threads. Someone from a place with strict boundaries will “trust what I read on the internet” and then later have problems because the advice given to them simply does not apply to them. Posters just don’t realize that there can be consequences to giving bad advice on internet forums.

What I am saying to you is: trust your pastor.

 

[Hopey]

Not everything that is true will necessarily be provided on a diocese website.
Unfortunately, we have come to expect that websites will give everyone every bit of information that might ever be needed. This simply is not the case.
I cannot find the “Rite of Baptism for Children” on my diocese website, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t use the Rite. Anyway, that’s nothing more than a general observation about how we, as a society, are beginning to think about the internet. Sometimes we expect too much from web pages.

How does one find out? That’s a good question. There’s no one answer (certainly not “go to the website”). I can say that at my own parish, we welcome both visitors and new arrivals. We are hospitable. When a family says “we just moved here” then either I or the secretary (or maybe even another parishioner) ask “where do you live?” If the answer is within the boundaries, we know that they are parishioners. If they don’t live in the territory, we refer them to their proper parish, while telling them that they are always welcome here as visitors. Every parish will handle their own registration procedures differently; although we have to keep in mind that registration does not equate to membership.

Since you describe that parish church as being “literally down the block” then its very likely that you live in the territory of that parish–extremely likely.

You need not worry. If there was a problem, the pastor would have mentioned it to you.

My concern here (on this and similar threads) is about people on the internet who encourage others to disregard parish boundaries, or who give bad advice in that regard. One person might live in a place where boundaries are treated rather loosely, but could be giving advice to someone else; maybe directly, or maybe indirectly because countless others will read these posts without actually participating in the threads. Someone from a place with strict boundaries will “trust what I read on the internet” and then later have problems because the advice given to them simply does not apply to them. Posters just don’t realize that there can be consequences to giving bad advice on internet forums.

What I am saying to you is: trust your pastor.

How does that coincide with the understanding of we are all the body of Christ - one - we are all members?
I have felt that before, being registered but not a member. They take my money just the same.
Technically, we are all members of a much bigger Church. I realize your specific responsibilities would require you to know your boundaries and such.

 

[PHSshamrock]

Since the code of canon law defines a parish as a territory, it’s not for me to defend the practice, rather the burden of proof is on one who wishes to disregard it.

I would like you to think about the impact your posts have on someone who does live in a place where the boundaries are followed (and that’s the majority) and who reads your posts, coming away thinking “someone on the internet told me that parish boundaries don’t matter” and then later has some problems as a result of reading your post.

Will you be there to defend that person when the boundaries are being enforced? Do you actually think that your internet posts will carry any weight (any whatsoever) with the 2 pastors involved?

Will you be around to help “pick up the pieces” when someone is genuinely hurting as a result of following your advice (even though indirect)?

I can safely say, without any hesitation whatsoever, that when I post that canon law defines a parish as a territory and when I caution people against disregarding canon law, if anyone should point to me and say “he told me to follow canon law” my conscience will be perfectly clear.

This is very interesting. My family moved to a different part of town about six years ago, which I suppose changed what our actual parish is… There are three Churches in my town- one 1.5 miles from my current house, one 3 miles away, and the last is about 8 miles away. My family has continued to go to the 8 mile away parish after we moved. It’s the parish that we’ve always gone to, it’s the parish that my grandparents and my aunts go to, and it’s where we feel the most at home. Moving to a new house didn’t change that. Fortunately, I have a very good relationship with the paster of the parish that is canonically mine (he’s my spiritual director) and no problems have ever come up. It’s a good thing to be aware of though.

How does this all work with college students, I wonder? Is their college or their home considered their place of residency. Perhaps they just have dual parishionership?

 

[robwar]

I think this thread is way off course. I just reread the opening question and the question was if it was ok to go to Mass at another parish, due to time conflicts. This isn’t parish hopping even though that is stated in the opening line. I would think and even have the good Father on this thread say “yes” it is perfectly ok to attend a Mass if one isn’t able to attend Mass at their regular parish. I think the more important thing here to attend Mass where ever that may be. I think this back and forth over cannon law and parish boundaries and how this is applied and practice in diocese is variable from place to place. I think the conflict on here is the letter of the law (cannon law) as opposed to what a number of us see in our parishes and dioceses. But that really isn’t what Op was even asking here. I think the “parish hopping” is a misnomer and misleading because the original question isn’t about parish hopping but attending Mass.

 

[adawgj]

I’d say, try to organize which parishes you’ll be attending so that way their parishioners will get to know you better.

 

[FrDavid96]

How does that coincide with the understanding of we are all the body of Christ - one - we are all members?
I have felt that before, being registered but not a member. They take my money just the same.
Technically, we are all members of a much bigger Church. I realize your specific responsibilities would require you to know your boundaries and such.

I don’t understand why you would ask. You highlighted the sentence where I say that every parish handles registrations differently (registrations, not membership).

Some have computers, some use papers or card-stock registration forms, some use bound books. How does using different recording methods conflict in any way with our understanding of Church? We don’t have a universal “registration form” in the Catholic Church. Some religions, like Mormons, do have standardized registration methods. We simply don’t.

Of course we are all members of the Church—surely, I agree. But there is no conflict between the understanding of a universal (One Holy Catholic Apostolic) Church and the understanding that there are parishes.

 

[FrDavid96]

This is very interesting. My family moved to a different part of town about six years ago, which I suppose changed what our actual parish is… There are three Churches in my town- one 1.5 miles from my current house, one 3 miles away, and the last is about 8 miles away. My family has continued to go to the 8 mile away parish after we moved. It’s the parish that we’ve always gone to, it’s the parish that my grandparents and my aunts go to, and it’s where we feel the most at home. Moving to a new house didn’t change that. Fortunately, I have a very good relationship with the paster of the parish that is canonically mine (he’s my spiritual director) and no problems have ever come up. It’s a good thing to be aware of though.

If you do that and you have no problems, then fine. All I’m concerned about is that people in your situation understand that parishes are territories, not buildings. I hope all works well for you.
The situation that concerns me is that if someone in a similar situation to you reads internet posts to the effect that there are no parish boundaries (or that no one cares about them), and then at some time in the future, some problem does arise, you won’t be in a difficult situation because you followed some bad internet advice.
I would much rather that someone like you be aware (as you say you are) instead of unaware by reason of following “what I read on some internet forum.”

How does this all work with college students, I wonder? Is their college or their home considered their place of residency. Perhaps they just have dual parishionership?

Canon law addresses this. I’ll post the canons at the end.

One acquires a parish (ie membership) by both domicile (permanent residence) and quasi-domicile (living there at least 3 months).

A person can actually have 2 parishes at the same time—one permanent, and one by virtue of quasi-domicile.

This all depends on what the college student considers “home.” If a student considers himself to be a resident of home-town, but just living at college temporarily, then he has a residence at home and a quasi-residence at college. That means 2 parishes of membership. On the other hand, if a college student considers the college residence to be “my permanent home, or at least as permanent as it gets” then college is the domicile.

It just depends on the person, and how how much that person is independent from home life.

When college students ask me this, I ask them “what does it say on your drivers license? where do you vote? what do you list as your permanent address with the school?”

For example, in my own life, as an undergrad, I considered myself just living in the dorm temporarily, but once I was a grad student, I considered my school address to be my permanent one.

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

§2. The proper pastor or ordinary of a transient is the pastor or local ordinary where the transient is actually residing.

§3. The proper pastor of one who has only a diocesan domicile or quasi-domicile is the pastor of the place where the person is actually residing.

 

[Hopey]

I don’t understand why you would ask. You highlighted the sentence where I say that every parish handles registrations differently (registrations, not membership).

Some have computers, some use papers or card-stock registration forms, some use bound books. How does using different recording methods conflict in any way with our understanding of Church? We don’t have a universal “registration form” in the Catholic Church. Some religions, like Mormons, do have standardized registration methods. We simply don’t.

Of course we are all members of the Church—surely, I agree. But there is no conflict between the understanding of a universal (One Holy Catholic Apostolic) Church and the understanding that there are parishes.

I do understand what you are trying to do, let people know there are parish boundaries, they would reside in a parish naturally due to residency. From now on, when we move, we will ask if the parish we are at is the parish for our area.
BUT, the law isn’t all there is to a parish. Yes, we need to be aware of it but it is disappointing to see, at least written out, that some would be considered registered but not members. Surely, that is wrong. If someone were in your parish that was outside your boundaries, would you tell them they were not members but just registered?

The CAF Q&A has answered this as although there are boundaries for a parish (law), they can decide which parish best fits them (paraphrasing). So, I am not sure their searches would end in reading this thread - your answer.

I do sort of know why at one parish we were treated as such (registered but not members). It is insulting. It is a former parish. That could have been cleared up soon in our stay there had he explained himself better. But as I said, they didn’t hesitate to take our money. Who wants to be sorta part of a parish? For that matter, the rules are more in favor of ethnic groups which do get to have their own parish (black/Hispanic/polish) yet, if someone were going because of time or because they have a lot more activities for youth, we are SOL?

I will ask the next time we move as it will be soon. We are quasi residents right now.

 

[Vico]

…
BUT, the law isn’t all there is to a parish. Yes, we need to be aware of it but it is disappointing to see, at least written out, that some would be considered registered but not members. Surely, that is wrong. If someone were in your parish that was outside your boundaries, would you tell them they were not members but just registered?..

The diocesan bishop cares for his particular church (the diocese) in three forms:

• parish
• quasi-parish
• communities that are neither parish nor quasi-parish.

It is possible to have more than one proper parish. An example is a Spanish speaking personal parish which covers an entire diocese. Another example is living in two locations in alternation (Winter and Summer homes).

If a Catholic attends in a different parish than that of the domicile then it may also be in a different diocese from the proper diocese. Certain permissions are required for sacraments from the proper ordinary (bishop) and proper pastor (priest).

 

[Hopey]

The diocesan bishop cares for his particular church (the diocese) in three forms:

• parish
• quasi-parish
• communities that are neither parish nor quasi-parish.

It is possible to have more than one proper parish. An example is a Spanish speaking personal parish which covers an entire diocese. Another example is living in two locations in alternation (Winter and Summer homes).

If a Catholic attends in a different parish than that of the domicile then it may also be in a different diocese from the proper diocese. Certain permissions are required for sacraments from the proper ordinary (bishop) and proper pastor (priest).

Yes, I understand that especially about getting permission for some sacraments, etc.
But, what is very plain to me now is that for some priests, it extends into how they view you and parish life also. If I had to do over one parish again, I would ask if they considered me a member, parishioner, or not. At least I would have it from the beginning how they considered us and our activities, not sacraments mind you, would be limited. Also, I would not have given to some of their collections for building, etc, as I was not a full member there but only sorta.

I remember as a kid this was a very big deal and you didn’t go to other parishes unless there was some special occasion.
It changed but not for some priests. I can understand them having an extra load that they don’t want, don’t need, etc. But, it would be nice that those who are doing it, to let you know they have certain memberships and how you are considered.

 

[FrDavid96]

I do understand what you are trying to do, let people know there are parish boundaries, they would reside in a parish naturally due to residency. From now on, when we move, we will ask if the parish we are at is the parish for our area.
BUT, the law isn’t all there is to a parish. Yes, we need to be aware of it but it is disappointing to see, at least written out, that some would be considered registered but not members. Surely, that is wrong. If someone were in your parish that was outside your boundaries, would you tell them they were not members but just registered?

The CAF Q&A has answered this as although there are boundaries for a parish (law), they can decide which parish best fits them (paraphrasing). So, I am not sure their searches would end in reading this thread - your answer.

I do sort of know why at one parish we were treated as such (registered but not members). It is insulting. It is a former parish. That could have been cleared up soon in our stay there had he explained himself better. But as I said, they didn’t hesitate to take our money. Who wants to be sorta part of a parish? For that matter, the rules are more in favor of ethnic groups which do get to have their own parish (black/Hispanic/polish) yet, if someone were going because of time or because they have a lot more activities for youth, we are SOL?

I will ask the next time we move as it will be soon. We are quasi residents right now.

Parishes are territories. No amount of discussion here on CAF is going to change that.

Catholics acquire a parish by residence, not by registration. Again, discussions here at CAF don’t change canon law.

 

[FrDavid96]

If someone were in your parish that was outside your boundaries, would you tell them they were not members but just registered?

If I live in the state of Oregon but I want to consider myself a resident of Washington state, can I do that?

 

[Hopey]

If I live in the state of Oregon but I want to consider myself a resident of Washington state, can I do that?

Yes sir, if you were enrolled in a school there or worked in that state and paid taxes (which I have before and you get into quasi residency) you could be.

I just know what to ask now when we register. It is funny you mention an out of state parish because I am registered at one, out of state, and they are more concerned as to my well being than where we temporarily are. Maybe that will change.

But, I know what to ask now in how I am considered - sorta a member, etc.

I have learned a great deal.

 

[Russ_of_Tokyo]

I’ve learned a lot, too, and have decided to attend Mass at my own neighborhood church on Sundays when I don’t have duties at the parish where I’m registered.

It will be a few months of back-and-forth before I make the final move so people won’t get the impression I left in a huff!

 

[Vico]

Yes, I understand that especially about getting permission for some sacraments, etc.
But, what is very plain to me now is that for some priests, it extends into how they view you and parish life also. If I had to do over one parish again, I would ask if they considered me a member, parishioner, or not. At least I would have it from the beginning how they considered us and our activities, not sacraments mind you, would be limited. Also, I would not have given to some of their collections for building, etc, as I was not a full member there but only sorta.

I remember as a kid this was a very big deal and you didn’t go to other parishes unless there was some special occasion.
It changed but not for some priests. I can understand them having an extra load that they don’t want, don’t need, etc. But, it would be nice that those who are doing it, to let you know they have certain memberships and how you are considered.

It would be good for the priest to inform about the structure of the church and how the faithful are cared for.

It is complicated because a Catholic person attending a parish church can be a resident, newcomer, traveler, or homeless, for the diocese or parish (either territorial or personal) in combination with enrollment in a different Catholic church sui iuris in the same territory with or without jurisdiction in the territory. So the Catholic clergy cares for them in some ways, even though they are not in the proper diocese/eparchy or proper parish. The priest may establish a mailing list and tithe list for practical purposes.