Parish music director doing the music for a gay 'wedding'

[EnglishTeacher]

I was having a casual conversation with our parish’s music and liturgy director, and asked her about her plans for the weekend. She said she is coordinating the music and playing for “Joe & Ken’s* wedding at First Lutheran Church.” I was shocked and said nothing in response. This is our parish music director, whom people look up to and who is well known in the community. Not to mention, Joe and Ken are parishioners and regular attenders at our parish.

I probably should have said something, but I didn’t. Should I still say something to her? I feel like our pastor should know, but I would rather not be the one to tell him, especially as she will probably figure out that I was the one who told him. I really don’t know what to do; this event has the potential to further confuse many people who are already confused on this issue.

*not their real names

 

[TechieGuy]

Has your Parish Priest or Bishop explicitly forbidden Church employees from participating in these events?

Our Bishop did.

 

[reggieM]

If you know her well enough, yes - why not?

You: “You know, it struck me … about that wedding? Is that something you don’t have a problem with? I’m not trying to be hurtful but … that is totally against our faith and I’m confused about what you’re doing.”

Her: “Oh, I know. But the Church is changing on these things. Joe and Ken have been coming here for years and Father knows all about it. After all, we need to be welcoming. Ok, no - I mean - I’m not really in favor of anything like that, it’s just that we have to be supportive and I think God understands.”

You: … “Oh yes, I like Joe and Ken and we have to be welcoming … but … I mean, the Church doesn’t accept this. And you know Jennifer, I mean many people in the parish look up to you. You have a very important role for us. It just doesn’t seem right – especially since Joe and Ken are actually going to another church to do this. Doesn’t that tell us there’s something wrong here.”

Her: Um, oh wait - you know, I’m really busy right now, I have to put the little plastic numbers on that board over there, but [huge fake smile] Thank you so much! I definitely want to talk about this with you! I hope you have a great Sunday. Oh Hi, Mr. and Mrs. Jackson - [as she abruptly turns away from you] … Yes, what a beautiful day!

:sad_yes::dts::hypno:

 

[abinjoy]

Has your Parish Priest or Bishop explicitly forbidden Church employees from participating in these events?

Our Bishop did.

Name of the bishop?

 

[Gertabelle]

Has your Parish Priest or Bishop explicitly forbidden Church employees from participating in these events?

Our Bishop did.

Name of the bishop?

I’m in Denver, and am NOT a parish employee.

But when I was teaching religious ed (as a volunteer) to a group of first graders a couple years ago, I had to sign an agreement to live according to Church teachings, etc. There was actually a fairly long document (4+ pages) of information I had to read before signing.

From what I understand, paid employees have to sign the same document, which was created by the archdiocese and is required by them.

As a volunteer parish organist, however, I have never had to sign anything saying I agree to live in alignment with Church teachings.

 

[Joe_5859]

I think your pastor needs to know. What he chooses to do with that information is up to him, but it is information that he should have.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m in Denver, and am NOT a parish employee.

But when I was teaching religious ed (as a volunteer) to a group of first graders a couple years ago, I had to sign an agreement to live according to Church teachings, etc. There was actually a fairly long document (4+ pages) of information I had to read before signing.

From what I understand, paid employees have to sign the same document, which was created by the archdiocese and is required by them.

As a volunteer parish organist, however, I have never had to sign anything saying I agree to live in alignment with Church teachings.

They require that in schools, but not in parishes. I think they believe it’s a no brainer in the parishes. 50 bucks says the pastor has no clue.

 

[Gertabelle]

They require that in schools, but not in parishes. I think they believe it’s a no brainer in the parishes. 50 bucks says the pastor has no clue.

Our parish (not the school) only has about five paid employees. All the rest are volunteers.

Actually, it never occurred to me that there would be a difference in what’s required for school employees versus parish employees. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[TechieGuy]

Name of the bishop?

Bishop Joseph Strickland

Here’s the statement:
dioceseoftyler.org/news/2015/06/bishop-stricklands-statement-on-u-s-supreme-court-decision/

Given this and recognizing my responsibility and moral authority as the shepherd of this Church of Tyler, I will shortly issue a decree in this Diocese establishing, as particular law, that no member of the clergy or any person acting as employee of the Church may in any way participate in the solemnization or consecration of same-sex marriages, and that no Catholic facilities or properties, including churches, chapels, meeting halls, Catholic educational, health or charitable institutions, or any places dedicated or consecrated, or use for Catholic worship, may be used for the solemnization or consecration of same-sex marriages.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

OP, your pastor has a right to know about this. You should let him know. I don’t know what he can do about it, but he should certainly know.

 

[EasterJoy]

It may depend on the laws in your state. If she is a professional musician who does Lutheran weddings or weddings generally or who provides music for hire generally (rather than a musician who only does weddings held in Catholic churches), she may not be able to turn down a wedding for a client based on same-sex any more than a photographer, baker, or florist can.

 

[Gertabelle]

It may depend on the laws in your state. If she is a professional musician who does Lutheran weddings or weddings generally or who provides music for hire generally (rather than a musician who only does weddings held in Catholic churches), she may not be able to turn down a wedding for a client based on same-sex any more than a photographer, baker, or florist can.

Interesting point. Though it sounds as though she is friends with this couple, so I doubt they’re legally holding her feet to the flame, as it were, and forcing her to play at their wedding.

 

[EasterJoy]

Interesting point. Though it sounds as though she is friends with this couple, so I doubt they’re legally holding her feet to the flame, as it were, and forcing her to play at their wedding.

If they know she is a professional and especially if they’ve hired her for other events, it would not cross their minds that she could turn them down because she had moral problems with their wedding.

She may have no moral qualms about their wedding; I’m just saying that it might not make any difference if she did. When gay couples do not get wedding services, some of them take their business elsewhere because they don’t want a vendor who doesn’t think their wedding is good enough. Some of them, however, do call the authorities and get the vendor slapped with a big six-figure fine.

 

[ItTakesAllKinds]

In all charity, I think you need to spend more time working on minding your own business. I don’t see how this is your business in any way, shape, or form. The Church is pretty clear on her teachings about this. Worst case scenario, something sinful is happening. Are you the sin police? Where does that stop? Maybe the church custodian is cohabitating. Is that your business? Or what about the lector. Maybe he lied at work yesterday. Is that your business? Be happy that this gay couple wants to have a relationship with God. They aren’t killing anyone or taking the food out of a starving child 's mouth. If you are truly worried for their souls or the soul of the musician, then pray for them (and mind your own business).

 

[EasterJoy]

In all charity, I think you need to spend more time working on minding your own business. I don’t see how this is your business in any way, shape, or form. The Church is pretty clear on her teachings about this. Worst case scenario, something sinful is happening. Are you the sin police? Where does that stop? Maybe the church custodian is cohabitating. Is that your business? Or what about the lector. Maybe he lied at work yesterday. Is that your business? Be happy that this gay couple wants to have a relationship with God. They aren’t killing anyone or taking the food out of a starving child 's mouth. If you are truly worried for their souls or the soul of the musician, then pray for them (and mind your own business).

I’m a fan of minding one’s own business, but having said that, it is admonishing the sinner that the Church counts as among spiritual works of mercy, not minding one’s own business. It among one of the things we are to do if we are “truly worried” for the souls of others. “Am I my brother’s keeper?” on the other hand, is not held up in Scriptures as a particular virtue. After all, “he who loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.” (Prov. 12:1) Yes, we have to be careful. Yes, we ought to be slow to correct those not under our jurisdiction.

It is judging the soul we are forbidden from doing. We are not forbidden from noticing whether or not a brother or sister is following moral law. There are sins in this world worth mentioning that do fall well short of killing or “taking the food out of a starving child’s mouth.”

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
*Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.”(Mt 18:6; cf. 1 Cor 8:10-13) Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.(Cf. Mt 7:15)

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to “social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible.” (Pius XII, Discourse, June 1, 1941) This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,(Cf. Eph 6:4; Col 3:21) or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!”(Lk 17:1)*

 

[holyrood]

In all charity, I think you need to spend more time working on minding your own business. I don’t see how this is your business in any way, shape, or form. The Church is pretty clear on her teachings about this. Worst case scenario, something sinful is happening. Are you the sin police? Where does that stop? Maybe the church custodian is cohabitating. Is that your business? Or what about the lector. Maybe he lied at work yesterday. Is that your business? Be happy that this gay couple wants to have a relationship with God. They aren’t killing anyone or taking the food out of a starving child 's mouth. If you are truly worried for their souls or the soul of the musician, then pray for them (and mind your own business).

I get tired of this attitude for the reason that the longer these things go on, the more apparent it becomes that what people do ‘in privacy’ DOES affect many people.

Let’s talk about premarital sex…once frowned on by all of society. Two consenting adults, right? What they do in their bedroom doesn’t affect anyone, right?

Problem is…those two consenting adults having sex outside marriage end up with an unexpected pregnancy. Plus, they’ve influenced friends that this is no big deal. A few of those friends…who have by now influenced more of their friends that this is no big deal…also have unexpected pregnancies.

Now there’s a growing trend toward out of wedlock pregnancies. Oh, yeah, and STDs. And pressure for abortion. And now, where the vast majority of children used to be raised in relatively stable two parent homes, we now have a striking number of children being raised in one parent homes, without fathers, too often with multiple boyfriends passing through their lives, too often in poverty which is frequently part of single parenthood…along with the psychological, emotional, spiritual problems that stem from abortion…along with the continued pressure to raise taxes to pay for all the difficulties faced by poverty-stricken single mothers who bore children out of wedlock…and increased pressure on more women to work outside the home to cover that rising tax bill…resulting in more and more children being raised in day care.

When society is now saying that florists and bakers MUST take part in a so-called gay ‘wedding’ or else lose their business and be financially destroyed…yeah, that becomes everybody’s business. I myself am in a field where someone could potentially order me to take part or else. What’s more, anyone notice it’s always Christian bakers these people target? Never Muslim bakers or florists who would also refuse to take part in a gay ‘wedding.’ Yes, when people are being forced to choose between ‘violate conscience’ or ‘financial ruin,’ that is now everybody’s business.

Now…whether you agree with every single detail, the BIG PICTURE IS: what we do in private DOES finally have an impact on society as a whole, and therefore on every single one of us individually.

And WHAT IF…we as a society are actually being judged for allowing and promoting and celebrating acts that are abhorrent to God? Acts that contributed to Jesus’s pain in the scourging, the crowning of thorns, carrying the cross, and his death by crucifixion? WHAT IF…that’s actually true as our faith teaches us?

So, sorry, ‘mind your own business’ has lost power with me. We’re all on this island together.

 

[reggieM]

Be happy that this gay couple wants to have a relationship with God. They aren’t killing anyone or taking the food out of a starving child 's mouth.

They are killing and they are taking nutrition away from children.
In the Christian life, the soul is most important.
When a person’s soul is in mortal sin, it cuts itself off from the grace of Life (salvation).
When a person teaches children to sin, Jesus had very serious warnings about that.
Do not fear those who can kill the body but rather Satan who can kill the soul and put it in hell forever.
When a person goes public about their sin, wants support for it, and wants it elevated and glorified by the Church (at the altar in a false-sacrament imitating sacred matrimony), that’s more than just someone who committed a sin that they’re trying to overcome.
It’s saying “this isn’t a sin”!
And many people will claim “it’s none of your business” to say that they’re not right about that?

 

[DeniseNY]

In all charity, I think you need to spend more time working on minding your own business. I don’t see how this is your business in any way, shape, or form. The Church is pretty clear on her teachings about this. Worst case scenario, something sinful is happening. Are you the sin police? Where does that stop? Maybe the church custodian is cohabitating. Is that your business? Or what about the lector. Maybe he lied at work yesterday. Is that your business? Be happy that this gay couple wants to have a relationship with God. They aren’t killing anyone or taking the food out of a starving child 's mouth. If you are truly worried for their souls or the soul of the musician, then pray for them (and mind your own business).

"Admonish the Sinner": The third spiritual work of mercy

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=8158

 

[exnihilo]

Definitely tell your pastor. All three individuals are planning to commit a great sin.

In all charity, I think you need to spend more time working on minding your own business. I don’t see how this is your business in any way, shape, or form. The Church is pretty clear on her teachings about this. Worst case scenario, something sinful is happening. Are you the sin police? Where does that stop? Maybe the church custodian is cohabitating. Is that your business? Or what about the lector. Maybe he lied at work yesterday. Is that your business? Be happy that this gay couple wants to have a relationship with God. They aren’t killing anyone or taking the food out of a starving child 's mouth. If you are truly worried for their souls or the soul of the musician, then pray for them (and mind your own business).

I find it interesting how much the promoters of sin in our age sell sin by saying it isn’t your business and doesn’t effect you. But that is a tremendous lie. It absolutely effects us. Our society is crumbling and it is all due to sin. The lie couldn’t be more obvious than when you get forced to promote sin or lose your job or your business. Maybe sin has always been sold this way. I don’t know. But in my lifetime this obvious lie seems to be very successful.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If you feel you must tell the pastor, then tell him.

Then allow him to take whatever action he sees fit, which may be nothing at all, especially if the woman in question is not legally considered an “employee” of the church.