Parish music director doing the music for a gay 'wedding'

[EnglishTeacher]

It may depend on the laws in your state. If she is a professional musician who does Lutheran weddings or weddings generally or who provides music for hire generally (rather than a musician who only does weddings held in Catholic churches), she may not be able to turn down a wedding for a client based on same-sex any more than a photographer, baker, or florist can.

This presents and interesting question. I don’t believe it applies to the situation in our parish, but it makes me wonder how far in general could this concept be taken when applied to musicians. Just because a person is capable of playing the piano or organ or harp or what-have-you and occasionally plays for a wedding, is he then unable to turn down a same-sex wedding if asked?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This presents and interesting question. I don’t believe it applies to the situation in our parish, but it makes me wonder how far in general could this concept be taken when applied to musicians. Just because a person is capable of playing the piano or organ or harp or what-have-you and occasionally plays for a wedding, is he then unable to turn down a same-sex wedding if asked?

Need a bunch more facts here, such as:

1. Is the person running a business (“Wedding Music Shop”) or just one person who gets hired to play an individual event?
2. Does the person have an employment contract with another employer like a Catholic Church that puts restrictions on what they can do?
3. Conversely, does the person have an employment contract with another employer like the Lutheran Church that says “you will play at all the weddings unless you’re incapacitated and that includes gay ones”?
4. Did the person tell the gay couple, “I’m not playing your wedding because you’re gay” or did they say “sorry I’m busy visiting my mother that weekend”?
5. Do they offer their services for free?
6. What does the law say in their jurisdiction?
7. Where did the Masterpiece Cake Shop case end up?
8. Does this musician have any significant money for somebody to recover in a law suit?

I could probably come up with a dozen more given time but you get the idea

 

[pianistclare]

Need a bunch more facts here, such as:

1. Is the person running a business (“Wedding Music Shop”) or just one person who gets hired to play an individual event?
2. Does the person have an employment contract with another employer like a Catholic Church that puts restrictions on what they can do?
3. Conversely, does the person have an employment contract with another employer like the Lutheran Church that says “you will play at all the weddings unless you’re incapacitated and that includes gay ones”?
4. Did the person tell the gay couple, “I’m not playing your wedding because you’re gay” or did they say “sorry I’m busy visiting my mother that weekend”?
5. Do they offer their services for free?
6. What does the law say in their jurisdiction?
7. Where did the Masterpiece Cake Shop case end up?
8. Does this musician have any significant money for somebody to recover in a law suit?

I could probably come up with a dozen more given time but you get the idea

yeah not enough info.
A priest friend had a gay music director, the guy was brilliant. He assured said priest/boss that his relationship was chaste. Fast forward a couple of years and the couple bought a house very close to the parish, and on Sunday afternoons would take walks holding hands. The priest called him in and reminded him that while he’s on his own time, he is still SEEN and regarded by many, as representing the Church…even out and about town. Please don’t do that, for everyone’s sake. The guy understood, and they still went for strolls, but stopped holding hands. No one could point any fingers. Eventually he quit for another position, but it wasn’t an issue for the parish before he left.
A heart to heart talk with one’s boss often clarifies expectations.
I hope the OP updates us when it’s all said an done, I’d be interested to know what happens, if anything.

 

[EasterJoy]

This presents and interesting question. I don’t believe it applies to the situation in our parish, but it makes me wonder how far in general could this concept be taken when applied to musicians. Just because a person is capable of playing the piano or organ or harp or what-have-you and occasionally plays for a wedding, is he then unable to turn down a same-sex wedding if asked?

I’m not an attorney, but my sense is that a person who occasionally accepts an honorarium to play liturgical music for people with whom they have some connection is in a different situation than someone in the profession of generally playing music for hire.

 

[Norseman82]

In all charity, I think you need to spend more time working on minding your own business. I don’t see how this is your business in any way, shape, or form. The Church is pretty clear on her teachings about this. Worst case scenario, something sinful is happening. Are you the sin police? Where does that stop? Maybe the church custodian is cohabitating. Is that your business? Or what about the lector. Maybe he lied at work yesterday. Is that your business? Be happy that this gay couple wants to have a relationship with God. They aren’t killing anyone or taking the food out of a starving child 's mouth. If you are truly worried for their souls or the soul of the musician, then pray for them (and mind your own business).

St. Paul said that “a little yeast affects the whole dough” so we should banish scandalous cases of immorality (1 Cor. 5). Also, in God tells Ezekiel that if he does not warn people to stop sinning, he will be held responsible, but if he does warn them but they do not listen, he will not be held responsible if they do not listen to him.

 

[pnewton]

It may depend on the laws in your state. If she is a professional musician who does Lutheran weddings or weddings generally or who provides music for hire generally (rather than a musician who only does weddings held in Catholic churches), she may not be able to turn down a wedding for a client based on same-sex any more than a photographer, baker, or florist can.

I do not think that would apply to a liturgist in any role, any more than it would be a requirement that a priest perform the wedding.

 

[pnewton]

In all charity, I think you need to spend more time working on minding your own business.

I understand, as an agnostic, that you might not understand this, but Church teaching is clear that we are to help each other. We are not like you. We are not like those in the inner city who would close our window to the crime outside so as not to get involved. “In all charity,” sometimes involvement is what charity demands.

 

[randomuser]

Wait a second – don’t most (if not all) weddings have DJ’s these days? I didn’t think there were that many (if any) weddings that use musicians anymore – there are likely way too many musical requests. What if the musician doesn’t know any of the songs the bride wants for her first dance? Additionally, ASCAP/BMI licensing fees are typically exempted for weddings whereas the same isn’t always true for performers.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Wait a second – don’t most (if not all) weddings have DJ’s these days? I didn’t think there were that many (if any) weddings that use musicians anymore – there are likely way too many musical requests. What if the musician doesn’t know any of the songs the bride wants for her first dance? Additionally, ASCAP/BMI licensing fees are typically exempted for weddings whereas the same isn’t always true for performers.

The DJ typically plays the reception. A live musician (or two or three) typically provides music for the church wedding ceremony.

 

[mommy_k]

As for lawsuits etc…all one has to do is be smart about it. Everyday that I work I deal things pertaining to these occaisions, and I meet about 5 or more ssa couples a week who want to get married.

If one wants to make a huge point…then lawsuit. But if one is subtle about it…no issue, and not complicated at all to seperate from these occaisions.

There should not be any excuse to do this, if one is inclined not to…money, lawsuit etc…is not a valid reason. And that’s for any occaision or event that the op’s friend chooses not to participate in.

Tact and diplomacy and a kind response is all that’s needed to bow out.

 

[pianistclare]

The DJ typically plays the reception. A live musician (or two or three) typically provides music for the church wedding ceremony.

Right. The OP is talking about the WEDDING, not the reception.

 

[pianistclare]

As for lawsuits etc…all one has to do is be smart about it. Everyday that I work I deal things pertaining to these occaisions, and I meet about 5 or more ssa couples a week who want to get married.

If one wants to make a huge point…then lawsuit. But if one is subtle about it…no issue, and not complicated at all to seperate from these occaisions.

There should not be any excuse to do this, if one is inclined not to…money, lawsuit etc…is not a valid reason. And that’s for any occaision or event that the op’s friend chooses not to participate in.

Tact and diplomacy and a kind response is all that’s needed to bow out.

Well stated.
As a parish Musician, I have to decline often, for numerous reasons.
But the fact may be, that she simply does not even realize the issue at hand. She may think she is just helping out a couple of friends.
Her pastor should counsel her, if he knows about it. He’s the shepherd of her soul, and theirs too, frankly.

 

[ItTakesAllKinds]

I get tired of this attitude for the reason that the longer these things go on, the more apparent it becomes that what people do ‘in privacy’ DOES affect many people.

Let’s talk about premarital sex…once frowned on by all of society. Two consenting adults, right? What they do in their bedroom doesn’t affect anyone, right?

Problem is…those two consenting adults having sex outside marriage end up with an unexpected pregnancy. Plus, they’ve influenced friends that this is no big deal. A few of those friends…who have by now influenced more of their friends that this is no big deal…also have unexpected pregnancies.

Now there’s a growing trend toward out of wedlock pregnancies. Oh, yeah, and STDs. And pressure for abortion. And now, where the vast majority of children used to be raised in relatively stable two parent homes, we now have a striking number of children being raised in one parent homes, without fathers, too often with multiple boyfriends passing through their lives, too often in poverty which is frequently part of single parenthood…along with the psychological, emotional, spiritual problems that stem from abortion…along with the continued pressure to raise taxes to pay for all the difficulties faced by poverty-stricken single mothers who bore children out of wedlock…and increased pressure on more women to work outside the home to cover that rising tax bill…resulting in more and more children being raised in day care.

When society is now saying that florists and bakers MUST take part in a so-called gay ‘wedding’ or else lose their business and be financially destroyed…yeah, that becomes everybody’s business. I myself am in a field where someone could potentially order me to take part or else. What’s more, anyone notice it’s always Christian bakers these people target? Never Muslim bakers or florists who would also refuse to take part in a gay ‘wedding.’ Yes, when people are being forced to choose between ‘violate conscience’ or ‘financial ruin,’ that is now everybody’s business.

Now…whether you agree with every single detail, the BIG PICTURE IS: what we do in private DOES finally have an impact on society as a whole, and therefore on every single one of us individually.

And WHAT IF…we as a society are actually being judged for allowing and promoting and celebrating acts that are abhorrent to God? Acts that contributed to Jesus’s pain in the scourging, the crowning of thorns, carrying the cross, and his death by crucifixion? WHAT IF…that’s actually true as our faith teaches us?

So, sorry, ‘mind your own business’ has lost power with me. We’re all on this island together.

I guess this is a big reason I am no longer Catholic. Where does this sort of thing end? I stand by my original advice. Work on your own self, and don’t worry about what other people are doing. Your concerns, as you noted them, don’t seem to be at all rooted in concern for the souls of others. They are all about you, and how the actions of others affect you. There is nothing at all wrong with this concern. It is called self-preservation, and it is a necessary part of living. I just disagree that it should be done under the guise of religion.

 

[EasterJoy]

I do not think that would apply to a liturgist in any role, any more than it would be a requirement that a priest perform the wedding.

When someone does music without regard to religious affiliation for other denominations or performs for secular weddings, which priests do not do, that could be a different story. That could put one in the same category as the florists and photographers. If a musician would not do any weddings not physically held within the confines a Catholic church, though, that would not run afoul of most public accommodation laws.

It is kind of like a bakery that just does not do wedding cakes or a caterer who will only do certain venues. A wedding industry vendor can put boundaries on where they will or will not work, provided it is not discriminatory.

We have no idea if that applies to the case of the OP’s music director, but it could. In all probability, however, a musician who will do weddings not in a church of their own denomination has to put the same conditions on all clients who ask–for instance, she could refuse to do any outdoor weddings or weddings at venues where the piano isn’t good enough or what-have-you. If she does any Lutheran weddings for hire, however, she probably has to take all reasonable requests…that is, if someone calls her to schedule her to do music for a wedding, she could not ask if the wedding would be same-sex or not.

 

[pianistclare]

I guess this is a big reason I am no longer Catholic. Where does this sort of thing end? I stand by my original advice. Work on your own self, and don’t worry about what other people are doing. Your concerns, as you noted them, don’t seem to be at all rooted in concern for the souls of others. They are all about you, and how the actions of others affect you. There is nothing at all wrong with this concern. It is called self-preservation, and it is a necessary part of living. I just disagree that it should be done under the guise of religion.

While some may feel it’s not a hill to die on, I disagree with the statement that religion should have no part in speaking about things like this.
The church advises, through the lens of the teaching of Christ. This “do whatever floats your boat” attitude of the secular world has not served us well in any age, much less at present. It’s not something that Jesus ever espoused. That’s why He was so despised by the Pharisees. He rained on their fun with all this “morality” and “goodness” stuff.
It may or may not be her place to say anything…but she has every right to be concerned, and every right to discuss it with her spiritual leadership. It’s a good question.

Where does it stop, indeed?

That’s the same thing Pilate said. He washed his hands “it’s nothing to do with me”. People of faith can no longer afford to wash their hands of things that influence our children. But only if we care about how their souls. Some just don’t care about other’s souls. Christ calls us to look outward. No one has suggested that this woman dump her friends, shun them, or otherwise be unkind. Truth should always be offered with compassion. But truth…is the thing that tilts the scales.
God bless.

 

[Joe_5859]

I guess this is a big reason I am no longer Catholic. Where does this sort of thing end? I stand by my original advice. Work on your own self, and don’t worry about what other people are doing. Your concerns, as you noted them, don’t seem to be at all rooted in concern for the souls of others. They are all about you, and how the actions of others affect you. There is nothing at all wrong with this concern. It is called self-preservation, and it is a necessary part of living. I just disagree that it should be done under the guise of religion.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that minding your own business is often a good thing to do. I’d venture to say that it is vastly underutilized in our social media, know-everything-about-what-everyone-else-is-doing culture. But it’s not always the best thing to do in every circumstance.

I’m an introvert who hates confrontation. I generally like to go the “minding my own business” route whenever and wherever possible. But in this particular case, I believe the OP needs to mention it to the priest. He needs to know. As Clare illustrated with her story, the person who plays music at Mass (AKA the public worship of the Church) represents the Church in a very real way, even in their regular day-to-day life. For such a person to agree to play music for a same sex wedding is a source of scandal.

And I am not a person who uses the word “scandal” lightly. I do not like when people overuse such words in places where they do not apply, because it lessens the meaning of the words in situations where they do apply. And this is one of those situations. Honestly, it would be better for a Christian to bake the wedding cake or supply the flowers or be a DJ at the reception. All of those I could see being far more acceptable than a Church musician playing the music for the actual same sex wedding.

 

[Peebo]

I was having a casual conversation with our parish’s music and liturgy director, and asked her about her plans for the weekend. She said she is coordinating the music and playing for “Joe & Ken’s* wedding at First Lutheran Church.” I was shocked and said nothing in response. This is our parish music director, whom people look up to and who is well known in the community. Not to mention, Joe and Ken are parishioners and regular attenders at our parish.
**
I probably should have said something, but I didn’t. Should I still say something to her? I feel like our pastor should know, but I would rather not be the one to tell him, especially as she will probably figure out that I was the one who told him**. I really don’t know what to do; this event has the potential to further confuse many people who are already confused on this issue.

*not their real names

Well…yes…if you feel that she is about to commit a sin then you should be the one to tell her so…yet you seem like you would rather not tell your pastor because she might find out you were the one who told him…if you’re accusing someone of a sin then have the courage to confront them yourself…instead of trying to “pass the buck”…I’m not saying you are wrong in your assumption…just the way you are trying to deflect the responsibility

 

[pnewton]

If she does any Lutheran weddings for hire, however, she probably has to take all reasonable requests…that is, if someone calls her to schedule her to do music for a wedding, she could not ask if the wedding would be same-sex or not.

If this actually ends up being the case (I am not convinced they are in the same situation), then by necessity parishes will no be able to use musicians that do such a business on the side.

 

[mommy_k]

I was having a casual conversation with our parish’s music and liturgy director, and asked her about her plans for the weekend. She said she is coordinating the music and playing for “Joe & Ken’s* wedding at First Lutheran Church.” I was shocked and said nothing in response. This is our parish music director, whom people look up to and who is well known in the community. Not to mention, Joe and Ken are parishioners and regular attenders at our parish.

I probably should have said something, but I didn’t. Should I still say something to her? I feel like our pastor should know, but I would rather not be the one to tell him, especially as she will probably figure out that I was the one who told him. I really don’t know what to do; this event has the potential to further confuse many people who are already confused on this issue.

*not their real names

I would go to your musician friend and let them know that u thought about it…and thonestly let them know you don’t want to them to get in trouble, so they should talk to the pastor themselves to see if this is ok. Tell them you are suggesting this because you care about them.

Usually in any occupation, it is professional courtesy to run freelance opportunities through your main place if enployment to see if there is a conflict of interest, and it us professional courtesy to ask.

This is no different.

 

[exnihilo]

As for lawsuits etc…all one has to do is be smart about it. Everyday that I work I deal things pertaining to these occaisions, and I meet about 5 or more ssa couples a week who want to get married.

If one wants to make a huge point…then lawsuit. But if one is subtle about it…no issue, and not complicated at all to seperate from these occaisions.

There should not be any excuse to do this, if one is inclined not to…money, lawsuit etc…is not a valid reason. And that’s for any occaision or event that the op’s friend chooses not to participate in.

Tact and diplomacy and a kind response is all that’s needed to bow out.

Isn’t it funny how in tolerant modern America and Europe you have to hide your true thoughts and convictions lest you suffer socially or financially. The religion of tolerance doesn’t seem to provide what it promises.