Parish records and Mormons

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Jerusha

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I don’t mind their “baptisms for the dead”. It is just my personal (heterodox) belief that people who have been re-baptised by Mormons after their deaths can get awful mad and haunt the LDS. :eek: 😛

But I also don’t appreciate their insistent curiousity about who is related to who. In the end of things, it doesn’t really matter who one’s ancestors are. But it seems to be important to LDS.

What do you think? 🤷
 
I personally plan to haunt anybody trying to baptize me into another faith after my death.
 
I’m pretty certain that the idea of coming back to haunt those that posthumously baptize you into another faith isn’t Catholic dogma. Unfortunately, I’m not certain what the official teaching is on this (assuming that there is an official teaching).
 
I would think the response of someone in Heaven to a Mormon posthumous baptism would be to pray for those misguided living people who think such an idea is a good thing.
 
We need to step back a bit.

As Catholics, we don’t believe that Mormon baptisms are even valid, whether they are done for the living or the dead. So if a baptism is done for a dead person by a Mormon in one of their temples, the Catholic view would be that a few people got very wet for no particular reason, would it not? Sort of a ritual bath and nothing more ~ certainly nothing to really get worked up about, or waste your time haunting anyone about.

Do a good job with your children and grandchildren NOW. That’s your best protection from some future Mormon baptism of the dead done by one of your descendants on your behalf. Just my 2 cents.

And since my 1st grandchild is due within the month, it’s something I’ve been giving a lot of thought to!
 
parish sacramental records are confidential and the property of the parish, in custody of the pastor, and by extension the bishop. No one, not even the recipient of the sacrament, has the right to see the actual books except the bishop, pastor or agent he delegates. Only the recipient of the sacrament, or the parent or guardian of a minor, has the right to receive an official sealed record of the sacrament, and that will contain only information in the permanent record allowed to be reprinted under canon law.

if third parties are being allowed to see the records for any purpose, other than diocesan or parish administrative reasons (microfilming, preservation etc). that is a grave abuse. in fact there is a specific prohibition against allowing persons to access the actual records for geneological research, and information may not be given for that purpose.
 
The mormons don’t have to use parish records. They obtain death records from the different states, Geneology copies, which contain mostly dates, and parents, etc. are easily obtainable… That is why they have such a vast geneology database.

Stay away from Ancestry.com, that is run by the LDS, and if you sign up there, you may not be able to unsubscribe. It was a nightmare for me.
 
I don’t get why The Vatican cares if the LDS want to baptize dead Catholics. They don’t even think LDS baptisms are legit. What harm will it do?
twopekinguys said:
Stay away from Ancestry.com, that is run by the LDS, and if you sign up there, you may not be able to unsubscribe. It was a nightmare for me.
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Why does it matter if it’s run by Mormons?
 
puzzleannie said:
parish sacramental records are confidential and the property of the parish, in custody of the pastor, and by extension the bishop. No one, not even the recipient of the sacrament, has the right to see the actual books except the bishop, pastor or agent he delegates. Only the recipient of the sacrament, or the parent or guardian of a minor, has the right to receive an official sealed record of the sacrament, and that will contain only information in the permanent record allowed to be reprinted under canon law.

if third parties are being allowed to see the records for any purpose, other than diocesan or parish administrative reasons (microfilming, preservation etc). that is a grave abuse. in fact there is a specific prohibition against allowing persons to access the actual records for geneological research, and information may not be given for that purpose.
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Then how come genies cite them?:confused:
 
ArdenB said:
I don’t get why The Vatican cares if the LDS want to baptize dead Catholics. They don’t even think LDS baptisms are legit. What harm will it do?
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Indulging false religions is wrong. If the CC lets it go on, there is the appearance of legitimacy.
 
ibkc said:
I would think the response of someone in Heaven to a Mormon posthumous baptism would be to pray for those misguided living people who think such an idea is a good thing.
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That is a good enough reframing of that personal belief of mine. 😉

Again, confidentiality is an important issue, as well as non-cooperation. The issue of dead-dunking itself is a dead issue, at least it keeps them busy.

For those who think “what harm is there to it”, I would like to acquaint you with the practices of some fundamentalist LDS who bear intergenerational prejudice against the descendants of those who opposed them between 1835 and 1850. :mad: For that reason, and that reason alone, NO geneaological records should be misused, and, if necessary, access to them should be restricted.
 
ibkc said:
I would think the response of someone in Heaven to a Mormon posthumous baptism would be to pray for those misguided living people who think such an idea is a good thing.
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You’re right.

But that’s not as much fun as haunting someone though. 😛 😃
 
strngrnrth said:
Then how come genies cite them?:confused:
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old sacramental records may become available on the same basis as govern archives of personal records in general, 50 years after the death of the last person mentioned, so one with a real need to know (family member, definitely not a Mormon trolling for baptizees) can access the information through diocesan archives (but not the records themselves). in most cases a reasonable administrative fee will be charged for a records church as would be done with any public records archives or other repository as well. But there is no law that obligates the local church to provide that information to anyone other than the individual.
 
If somebody is interested in genealogy research, the LDS family search website is great. They have ship’s registry, death certificates, census records all online and printable for free. The stuff I’ve seen is from public records, not parish records. All of that information is available to anybody, but it is nice that the LDS went ahead and did all the work and put the stuff on a database so we don’t have to do the work.
 
lak611 said:
If somebody is interested in genealogy research, the LDS family search website is great. They have ship’s registry, death certificates, census records all online and printable for free. The stuff I’ve seen is from public records, not parish records. All of that information is available to anybody, but it is nice that the LDS went ahead and did all the work and put the stuff on a database so we don’t have to do the work.
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It’s caveat emptor and “you get what you pay for” with them, though. They do absolutely no verification of their information and a lot of their info is flat-out wrong. Check, double-check and quadruple verify any genealogical info downloaded from their site.
 
twopekinguys said:
The mormons don’t have to use parish records. They obtain death records from the different states, Geneology copies, which contain mostly dates, and parents, etc. are easily obtainable… That is why they have such a vast geneology database.
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The thing is, for the longest time, people were not required to register births with the State. The Church, on the other hand, required registration of baptisms, marriages, etc. (If you wanted to join a seminary or a convent, you had to be able to provide proof that you were baptized.) For non-Catholics, the only record of births were written in the family Bible. Twenty years ago, my then-fiance worked for the State of Kansas in their records division, and had to deal with issues like this all the time: how do you verify that a) the person is who she says she is, and b) verify that she’s old enough to get social security when the only record of birth is in the family bible?

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If you really want to find out your family history, great great grandparents is quite adequate in finding what intergenerational influences impacted the home you were raised in. Geneaology is not what is important-- that is simply names and dates. What they went through and what they did is the most important aspect of studying your own family history. That generally does not require any major research effort (or seeking help from LDS geneaological libraries).
 
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