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PaulfromIowa
Guest
No. A parish is both a family and a jurisdiction. Some sacraments, such as Baptism, Confirmation, and Marriage need to be registered at a home parish.
It is not your fault that you were not told this.
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It is not your fault that you were not told this.
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Phemie
Guest
Gee, the first thing we do with anyone who comes to us for anything is get their name, address & phone number. It just helps us find them if we need to. If their home address is in our territory they are automatically added to the parish roster.
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mommamia
Guest
Some parishes are more concerned with formalities than others. If you are happy with the parish, just register and move on. I do think its odd you weren’t automatically registered when you were received, but it could just be an oversight. It could be mentioned that it is something that should be brought up to converts.
I do have an issue with the home parish rule. This rule actually pulled me from the Church and resulted in two of my kids not being baptized until they started school. I just couldn’t afford gas and energy to drive our family an hour to Sunday Mass, and weekday psr, when there was a Catholic Church 3 minutes from my house, but over the county line. We continued attending for a while, and contributing to the church, but they wouldn’t let us register or sign our son up for psr, or baptize our soon to be born daughter. So we finally just stopped going. They did not make me feel like I was part of the universal church. I had a hard time explaining to my son why he didn’t get to go to class or activities with the rest of the kids.
When we moved to where we are now, we returned. Mostly because of the great welcome we received here. We were given a registration form as soon as we let it slip we were Catholic and new to the area. Being registered is a good thing I believe. This way we know what is going on with the parish. Especially in a large parish where it may not be possible to know everyone.
I do have an issue with the home parish rule. This rule actually pulled me from the Church and resulted in two of my kids not being baptized until they started school. I just couldn’t afford gas and energy to drive our family an hour to Sunday Mass, and weekday psr, when there was a Catholic Church 3 minutes from my house, but over the county line. We continued attending for a while, and contributing to the church, but they wouldn’t let us register or sign our son up for psr, or baptize our soon to be born daughter. So we finally just stopped going. They did not make me feel like I was part of the universal church. I had a hard time explaining to my son why he didn’t get to go to class or activities with the rest of the kids.
When we moved to where we are now, we returned. Mostly because of the great welcome we received here. We were given a registration form as soon as we let it slip we were Catholic and new to the area. Being registered is a good thing I believe. This way we know what is going on with the parish. Especially in a large parish where it may not be possible to know everyone.
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Pug
Guest
Mommamia, I’m so sorry this happened to you. I’m so sorry you were denied baptism for your baby at the only place you could afford to travel to to meet the attendance requirements. They are more flexible around here. If it happened to me, I would have felt pretty unwanted by the two local churches.
About your last paragraph, are other parishes sending out regular. informative mailings that you would say this, that registration is how one knows what is going on in the parish? That makes no sense in my neck of the woods, so I’m curious.
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Pug
Guest
Maybe other parishes can afford to mail the bulletin? Our parish now puts the bulletin online so you can get it if you were sick for a weekend.
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scameter18
Guest
So am I a baptized member of the First Catholic Church of Dawson County, Georgia, or the Roman Catholic Church? Are we that tied to the secular state that our churches’ jurisdiction is dependent on political regions, like counties and states? How does this apply to people who are homeless or travel a lot? Even if they make exceptions for those people, that shouldn’t be necessary. Also, how are the Sacraments a matter of jurisdiction, or prayer, since my parish wouldn’t even pray for a fellow Catholic without me being registered? I hold to what I said. If there is a Canon Law contradicting me, please show me so I can amend my thinking.
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Phemie
Guest
It has to do with the Pastor’s responsibilities. A Pastor is responsible for all the Catholic souls in his territory, an area determined by the Diocese, unless it’s a Personal Parish, a parish erected to serve the needs of a specific group, ie. a parish for all the Poles in a specific area, such area might take in several territorial parishes.
Technically, when I wanted to have my children baptized in the parish where I grew up I should have asked my Pastor for permission to do so. I knew nothing about these rules and the priest who officiated at my wedding never mentioned that he was not supposed to baptize my children without my Pastor’s permission so their Baptism and Confirmation are registered in the same parish as mine are.
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scameter18
Guest
No one mentioned it to me either. However, about the pastor’s responsibilities, I find it interesting that at my parish, our prayer group wouldn’t accept my prayer request or my request to join the group because I’m not registered, yet my pastor accepted my request, as well as my request on All Souls’ to offer Masses for my prayer recipient.
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mommamia
Guest
I was raised Catholic, and didn’t know about the home parish rule. It’s silly not to be willing to even talk to people and work something out. What if you were visiting a friend and needed a prayer? Do they refuse to visit the sick if they aren’t registered? What about the elderly who are often moved to nursing homes far from the home parish, if they don’t register do we forget them?
I personally don’t see the charity in refusing prayer requests! We should pray for all. I also don’t understand completely excluding families because they live on the wrong side of an arbitrary line. I too though I was a member of the universal Church, but for a long time it didn’t feel that way.
I don’t think the Church needs to change her message, but her methods. If some are willing to refuse sacraments to practicing Catholics due to silly territorial rules, how will we ever be able to spread the message to others? This silly rule certainly turned my family away, and it was awful to have to explain to my Baptist in-laws, who were quick to offer our son a place in thier church. I also feel it is a large part of my husbands refusal to formally convert.
Our neighbor completed RCIA and was baptized at a different, but equally close parish. Apparently she loved it there. She hasn’t been back since the secretary told her she would have to register at our parish.
I’m thinking some diocese must be more strict than others. Perhaps because I grew up in a large city with a large Catholic population it was different. But I remember some families on our street went to different parishes.
I personally don’t see the charity in refusing prayer requests! We should pray for all. I also don’t understand completely excluding families because they live on the wrong side of an arbitrary line. I too though I was a member of the universal Church, but for a long time it didn’t feel that way.
I don’t think the Church needs to change her message, but her methods. If some are willing to refuse sacraments to practicing Catholics due to silly territorial rules, how will we ever be able to spread the message to others? This silly rule certainly turned my family away, and it was awful to have to explain to my Baptist in-laws, who were quick to offer our son a place in thier church. I also feel it is a large part of my husbands refusal to formally convert.
Our neighbor completed RCIA and was baptized at a different, but equally close parish. Apparently she loved it there. She hasn’t been back since the secretary told her she would have to register at our parish.
I’m thinking some diocese must be more strict than others. Perhaps because I grew up in a large city with a large Catholic population it was different. But I remember some families on our street went to different parishes.
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Pug
Guest
Mommamia,
After further reflection on your story I’ve wondered if in fact you were on the line between two dioceses, and not just two parishes. That is the way near me, the two break at the county line. But for me there are parishes which are reasonably close to the county line on either side, so what happened to you about being stuck with a 1 hour drive won’t happen to anyone by me.
And yes, the phenomenon you experienced does vary by bishop, so the local policy could change overnight one direction or the other, if you get a new bishop. Our last bishop changed the policy mid-stride, so to speak, but he left people like me, who had been at the same parish (and registered) for years alone. Sort of grandfathered.
About visiting the sick, when a homebound moves to a nursing home out of our boundaries, we either visit them if they are close or find a parish that will visit them that is close to them. Usually local parishes visit the nursing homes near them.
I do encourage anyone who gets hit by an unreasonable rule to talk to someone higher up than the parish secretary, by the way. Someone higher up can be more flexible in their answer. I know, that can be hard to do if you feel discouraged already!
After further reflection on your story I’ve wondered if in fact you were on the line between two dioceses, and not just two parishes. That is the way near me, the two break at the county line. But for me there are parishes which are reasonably close to the county line on either side, so what happened to you about being stuck with a 1 hour drive won’t happen to anyone by me.
And yes, the phenomenon you experienced does vary by bishop, so the local policy could change overnight one direction or the other, if you get a new bishop. Our last bishop changed the policy mid-stride, so to speak, but he left people like me, who had been at the same parish (and registered) for years alone. Sort of grandfathered.
About visiting the sick, when a homebound moves to a nursing home out of our boundaries, we either visit them if they are close or find a parish that will visit them that is close to them. Usually local parishes visit the nursing homes near them.
I do encourage anyone who gets hit by an unreasonable rule to talk to someone higher up than the parish secretary, by the way. Someone higher up can be more flexible in their answer. I know, that can be hard to do if you feel discouraged already!
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Phemie
Guest
I don’t think you’ll find a priest who will refuse to pray for someone upon being asked. As for Mass requests, they belong to the priest, not the parish. As far as I know, I can go to any priest and ask him to celebrate a Mass for the intention I want. If he hasn’t got more intentions than he can celebrate in a year (canon law says that’s the maximum intentions he can have on his books) he will generally say yes. When parishes have too many intentions in advance they transfer them to the missions or to retired priests who need the stipend.
I know that if I go to the funeral home in the town where I went to school, they take stipends for Masses to be celebrated at either of the two parishes in that town. It makes it easy for those who come to a visitation to kill two birds with one stone: pay their respects and have a Mass celebrated for the deceased. The Mass stipends and requests are then forwarded to the appropriate priest for celebration.
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scameter18
Guest
From some research I’ve done (such as this article: catholicexchange.com/parish-registration/ ) parish registration is purely a matter of convenience and has no definitive basis in canon law. It is not a matter of necessity; America has particularly given it higher importance than it actually has. The Church’s diocesan jurisdiction is based on territory, not on registration. One can register in a distant parish, but one’s home parish is based on the territory in which they live. This itself is only truly significant when it comes to marriages (where a marriage in a foreign territory is invalid unless approved of by the priest of one’s home parish). As the article says, “The law does not require anyone living within the parish boundaries to take the additional step of registering at the parish. The very fact that a Catholic lives in the territory of a particular parish is enough to make him a member… These canons that refer to a person’s parish always refer to the territorial parish of the Catholic person. Whether that person is registered at a completely different parish, or is not registered anywhere at all, is canonically irrelevant.” Also: “The fact that a person has or has not registered in a particular parish can never be used in a way that would directly violate canon law.”
I believe, in my opinion, that this should also apply to the familial life of the parish - such as accepting prayer requests. Simply by living in this territory, I am a member of my parish, regardless of whether or not I have registered, and for my parish to completely exclude me from submitting a prayer request (for a young Catholic girl with leukemia who died from it only a few days later) or from joining a prayer group is, I believe, wrong.
However, I have also found a possible reason why registration, especially in America, is given such high importance: tax deductions. One of the main functions of being registered is to receive donation envelopes which, at the end of the year, are tallied and the individual is given a sort of receipt detailing the amount of their tax-deductible donation. I do not mean to judge anyone, but if this is the or even a reason why registration is so significant here, I think this is a serious moral issue. I am against the very idea of tax-deductible donations, and especially for Church donations, as a tax deduction gives a reward to something that should be a completely free gift without payment. This is my belief.
Now, just to clarify, I am a faithful Roman Catholic. I love the Church and respect all Her teachings, including those about diocesan and parish jurisdiction as explained in Canon Law. It is precisely because of this love of the Church that I try to point out what I view as an abuse by Church members, something that can be a stumbling block for believers and non-believers alike. I am not trying to sow dissent in any way. God bless.
I believe, in my opinion, that this should also apply to the familial life of the parish - such as accepting prayer requests. Simply by living in this territory, I am a member of my parish, regardless of whether or not I have registered, and for my parish to completely exclude me from submitting a prayer request (for a young Catholic girl with leukemia who died from it only a few days later) or from joining a prayer group is, I believe, wrong.
However, I have also found a possible reason why registration, especially in America, is given such high importance: tax deductions. One of the main functions of being registered is to receive donation envelopes which, at the end of the year, are tallied and the individual is given a sort of receipt detailing the amount of their tax-deductible donation. I do not mean to judge anyone, but if this is the or even a reason why registration is so significant here, I think this is a serious moral issue. I am against the very idea of tax-deductible donations, and especially for Church donations, as a tax deduction gives a reward to something that should be a completely free gift without payment. This is my belief.
Now, just to clarify, I am a faithful Roman Catholic. I love the Church and respect all Her teachings, including those about diocesan and parish jurisdiction as explained in Canon Law. It is precisely because of this love of the Church that I try to point out what I view as an abuse by Church members, something that can be a stumbling block for believers and non-believers alike. I am not trying to sow dissent in any way. God bless.
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mommamia
Guest
So, what about Catholics who are homeless? Or who move around a lot? Dh had a job for two years that had us moving weekly. We had an rv and just went with the work. Is there a policy for that? Generally we had good experiences in the Catholic Churches, but we weren’t asking for baptism or anything. I think it would come down to who you contacted and the parish.
I just think we need to worry less what territory people are in, and more how we can help them to grow closer to God. We also need to remember the Church is run by mere humans. For every story I know of someone being turned away, there is a story of amazing love and charity being shown to strangers.
And Pug, it is possible we were on a diocese line. But diocese lines shouldn’t trump the Universal Church. I attribute this to human error, not Church error. And I have certainly learned my lesson about secretaries. I love the parish I’m in, but if you need help do not go to the secretary! But to be fair, in that situation I did talk to the pastor, and he treated us like naughty children sneaking into the party every time we attended mass there. I worried for awhile it would color my sons perception of the Church, but he is still happy to call himself Catholic.
I just think we need to worry less what territory people are in, and more how we can help them to grow closer to God. We also need to remember the Church is run by mere humans. For every story I know of someone being turned away, there is a story of amazing love and charity being shown to strangers.
And Pug, it is possible we were on a diocese line. But diocese lines shouldn’t trump the Universal Church. I attribute this to human error, not Church error. And I have certainly learned my lesson about secretaries. I love the parish I’m in, but if you need help do not go to the secretary! But to be fair, in that situation I did talk to the pastor, and he treated us like naughty children sneaking into the party every time we attended mass there. I worried for awhile it would color my sons perception of the Church, but he is still happy to call himself Catholic.
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Phemie
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Pug
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Indeed, the diocese line should not interfere with human souls! :nope:
I agree that it is human error here, and I’m glad you can see it. I worry that people can be scandalized by how registration policies are executed. I know how it made me feel when our bishop enacted it mid-stride. I didn’t feel welcome.
I’m very glad your son detected nothing, at least nothing that affected him.
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Pug
Guest
It is possible that parishioners don’t object to having all their donations tracked because they can use that tracking for taxes, but I think you will find that *the parishes themselves *want their parishioners to use the envelopes and use them to track attendance and donations for various purposes. I refuse to use regular envelopes that they mail, but I will use special ones for my donations to the diocese, so that my parish can separate them out from the regular offertory and so that my parish gets credit for the donation. (If that makes no sense, you have to realize that the diocese assess and charges each parish a tax or fee or whatever that they must pay each year, at least for those parishes that actually have something resembling a budget).
Be aware that even if you refuse to use the envelopes, they might still track your donations through your checks or electronic funds transfers, unless you only give cash, but I won’t do that if I am giving a large sum of money. All of that tracking is only going to increase as more financial transparency is demanded from the upper levels, I’d imagine.
Are you aware that people who send their kids to the parish school may want their donations carefully tracked in order to receive a tuition break? This is one of several ways I’ve seen those envelopes used that is unrelated to taxes.
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Phemie
Guest
I don’t know how it works in the US but in Canada each parish has to provide the diocese with a complete detailed financial report each year and to provide the Revenue Canada Agency with a Registered Charity Information Return that includes detailed financial information. The cathedraticum (diocesan tax) is usually calculated at 10% of revenue. The Diocese, in turn, must pay a “tax” to the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops. That tax is defrayed, somewhat, by the “Needs of the Catholic Church in Canada” collection in the fall, but if that collection doesn’t gather enough to meet the Conference “tax”, the Diocese must make up the shortfall.
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