Parish Search

[redpaisleywife]

Good Evening! This has probably been discussed on here - but if it has I haven’t stumbled upon it.

I am Protestant and my husband is Catholic, though he hasn’t attended church since before we were married. I have personally decided to go through RCIA and join. However, I am being very careful (maybe too careful) choosing a parish. My criteria are based on attempting to get my husband interested again. For example I would like the parishioners to be active and around my age (and my husbands).

My reasoning behind setting up the criteria is that for both of us church (and associated activities) were a central part of our lives - and very healthy. His reason for being lapsed is his distaste for a congregation that is in the building physically but not spiritually - and having a very interesting “take” on morality in life. This is something that seriously bothers him. Before getting married he didn’t want me to attend mass with him because he felt the presiding priest would drive me away.

Am I wrong for looking for a parish that meets the listed criteria? I would like to include my husband in my journey as much as possible (he’s supportive - just doesn’t want to attend mass because of his experience) but I also want to begin the process as soon as possible. (I’ve been looking into this for more than a year.) I would also like to establish a parish and a group of supportive moral friends (something I find extremely important) before we have children in the picture (not pregnant yet - just looking ahead).

Thank you for any advice.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I wouldn’t worry about looking for a congregation of a similar age group or anything like that. Find a church that has a pastor who respects the liturgy and doesn’t try to add his own bells and whistles and make things “fun” to draw in people. That is a reason so many churches have congregations that are there only physically but not spiritually — they are not being taught anything!

Look for a church that offers the Tridentine Mass.

 

[yinekka]

The only way you are going to find out if people are in the building spiritually as well as physically and if they have interesting takes on morality is to get to know people. As long as Mass, ordinary or extraordinary form, is celebrated according to the rubrics you won’t have a problem there. In any church where the rubrics are observed you are going to meet all kinds of people, just like in the real world, some you will like and others you will give a miss. As for people around a similiar age, you would have to attend all Sunday Masses to find the answer to that one. The only reason to become and stay a Catholic is because it is the Church founded by Jesus. Every parish will be full of sinners like you and me.

 

[Shin]

You may find that the more traditional the parish the more ‘manly’ the sermons…

And so that can help bring the men in.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

I will also add my voice to look for a Traditional parish, such as one run by the FSSP or ICKSP. I attend an FSSP parish. People drive for up to two hours each way to attend regularly so we have people from all over this half of the state. There are plenty of involved men and the Catholic teaching is not watered down.

 

[markomalley]

Good Evening! This has probably been discussed on here - but if it has I haven’t stumbled upon it.

I am Protestant and my husband is Catholic, though he hasn’t attended church since before we were married. I have personally decided to go through RCIA and join. However, I am being very careful (maybe too careful) choosing a parish. My criteria are based on attempting to get my husband interested again. For example I would like the parishioners to be active and around my age (and my husbands).

That is a tough question. Particularly when you haven’t disclosed a metropolitan area in which you live. (no, I am not asking that either)

First step is that you’ve got to locate a parish. A pretty comprehensive list can be found here: masstimes.org

Then don’t be afraid to shop around.

When you go to Mass, try to go to one of the principal Masses of the day Sunday, because that’s when you’re going to see the most. (Usually the principal Masses are between 10 AM and noon).

• If you see a parish that offers something called a “Traditional Latin Mass” or “Extraordinary Form” Mass, you probably would find a pretty good parish…even if you choose to use an English Mass at that same parish.
• If, when you go, you see Liturgical Dancers, run, don’t walk, away from that place and don’t turn around lest you be turned into a pillar of salt.
• If you see that a parish has a group that is associated with Call to Action or Voice of the Faithful, run, don’t walk.
• If you see any clown masks during the Mass, run, don’t walk.

But otherwise, it is going to take some time to find a good parish. There are a lot of really good parishes. There are also a lot of really bad parishes. So don’t judge the entire Church based upon experience with one parish. So look around. There used to be a rule that you needed to be registered in your local geographic parish (or ethnic parish), but that rule doesn’t exist any more.

One final note on parish selection: unlike a lot of Protestant services, recognition of visitors, having people come up and greet you, and so on, is not really a part of Catholic culture. It probably should be, but it isn’t. Don’t expect it. A lot of parishes will offer coffee and doughnuts after Mass, but that, too, is not universal. If you want to be involved, most parishes have lay liturgical ministries or apostolates where you can get involved, but it is not pushed. In other words, there will be “men’s ministry” “women’s ministry” “couples group” “knights of columbus” “ladies of charity” “St Vincent society” and so on where you are able to get involved, but you actually need to seek them out (well, KofC does do recruiting drives a few times a year, but that’s about it). Just because they don’t push, doesn’t mean they’re not glad to see you.

A couple of other notes:

If you have been baptized and have been married before or if your husband (who, as a non-practicing Catholic, would have been baptized as an infant) has been married before, you will run into some challenges. The Catholic Church takes very seriously the command of Jesus to “let no man put it asunder.” The challenges are not insurmountable if you want badly enough to be received into the Church, but they are there. Whatever you do, don’t take those challenges as “the Church rejecting you” – it’s not that…it’s being done for your own salvation, not for meeting any kind of a “purity” test (trust me, most of us, no matter how pious we sound, would pass a “purity” test…we all live on God’ grace whether we are humble enough to admit it or not). Getting your records together now will help the process. Note: regardless, unless you were married in the Church, your marriage will have to be convalidated (recognized by the Church). You might want to start a different thread for some advice if you are in that situation.

If you’ve been baptized, track down your baptism certificate now. Or get some sort of confirmation from the place you were baptized. The reason being that the Church does not practice re-baptism. You will be asked for it. If you don’t have a baptismal record, they will do something called a “conditional baptism” for you. But why do it again if you don’t need to?

Finally, catechesis in most Catholic parishes really stinks. Sorry, but that is my honest opinion. You need to devote time to study of the Faith so that you get an understanding of that faith. While most RCIA inquiry courses do not start until the fall time, there is absolutely nothing wrong with you starting now on your own. Here is another word of caution: if you go to your local Barnes and Noble and look for a book on Catholicism for study, you may well end up reading heresy. There is a lot of that going on. If you pick up a book purporting to teach about the faith, you want to page through the first few pages and look for something called a “Nihil Obstat” and “Imprimatur.” That will likely be on the title page or the ISBN page of the book. The Nihil Obstat/Imprimatur means that it’s been reviewed by Church officials and does not contain content that runs counter to official Church teaching. Even with that, there are a lot of materials out there. So another thread that you might want to start is asking for recommendations for good home study courses.

 

[laszlo]

You belong to the parish of your domicile (where you live)

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PC.HTM

Without the at least presumed consent of your pastor you cannot be accepted into the Catholic Church.

Naturaly this does not mean that you are obliged to attend masses there or (in the US) you have obligation to support that parish, but the canon still stands as it is: you belong there.

The Church is not democracy.

 

[Cat]

You belong to the parish of your domicile (where you live)

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PC.HTM

Without the at least presumed consent of your pastor you cannot be accepted into the Catholic Church.

Naturaly this does not mean that you are obliged to attend masses there or (in the US) you have obligation to support that parish, but the canon still stands as it is: you belong there.

The Church is not democracy.

Thank you for posting this and for posting the documentation.

I was wondering about this question. When we went through RCIA, we were taught exactly what laszlo has posted. We are members of a geographical parish and should attend and support that parish unless we have permission from the bishop (diocese) to attend another parish.

I know that lots of people attend Mass and support other parishes because they like the people or the music or the priest or the architecture better than their own parish, but it’s not supposed to be that way.

We do have several ethnic parishes in the city, and people join those with permission, even if they aren’t in that geographical parish. There is also a TLM parish, and again, people join this parish with permission, not just because they like the EF better than the OF.

OP, yes, frankly, I think you’re wrong to try to make a different plan than God has. God has placed us into parishes. We should submit to God’s plan. Bending the rules of the Church to try to get your husband interested is not going to work in the long run. You (and he) will keep bending the rules whenever you aren’t happy, and that’s not what Christians should do.

The best way to get your husband interested in the Catholic Church again is to join your parish and learn to love it and love the people there, even if they don’t seem to be the kind of people that you would ordinarily love. Submit, be docile and obedient, and you will shine as a humble and loving example of a Christian woman to your husband. The Holy Spirit will use your pious spirit to help convict him of his rebellious spirit, and woo him back into the Church.

If your diocese allows you to transfer to another parish, then everything’s fine. If you find a parish that has the physical attributes that you think would be more appealing to your husband, then you are doing no wrong to ask the diocese for permission to transfer, as long as that is allowed. That would be following God’s plan, not your own plan, and it would bring about good.

We should always submit to GOD’S plan to be a good witness to others. We shouldn’t re-write God’s plan and expect God to go along with our “new” way of doing things, even if our way seems right to us.

 

[markomalley]

You belong to the parish of your domicile (where you live)

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PC.HTM

Without the at least presumed consent of your pastor you cannot be accepted into the Catholic Church.

Naturaly this does not mean that you are obliged to attend masses there or (in the US) you have obligation to support that parish, but the canon still stands as it is: you belong there.

The Church is not democracy.

That is not a good reference.

If you take a look at Canon 102, you’ll see why:

Can. 102 §1. Domicile is acquired by that residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there permanently unless called away or has been protracted for five complete years.
§2. Quasi-domicile is acquired by residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there for at least three months unless called away or has in fact been protracted for three months.

And then this additional canon:

Can. 518 As a general rule a parish is to be territorial, that is, one which includes all the Christian faithful of a certain territory. When it is expedient, however, personal parishes are to be established determined by reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason.
Canon 102 and 107 do establish, on a geographic basis, which parish I live within and which diocese. However, as you can see from Can. 518, personal parishes are allowed.

However, neither Can. 102, 107, nor 518 limit my actions a lay Christian faithful. I will grant that an individual diocese or an individual parish may have their own particular law that restricts my mobility; however, my mobility is not restricted in any way in Universal Canon Law.

If I choose to register in a certain parish, there is nothing in Universal Canon Law that prohibits me from doing so. Period.

 

[laszlo]

However, as you can see from Can. 518, personal parishes are allowed.

If I choose to register in a certain parish, there is nothing in Universal Canon Law that prohibits me from doing so. Period.

Personal parishes are established not by the choice of the layperson, but the choice of the bishops, based some special circumstances like ethnicity, rite etc. Some FSSP parishes are personal parishes. Members of such personal parishes usually have dual parishoner-ship, their territorial and that of according to their special choice.

The registration into a parish has no legal consequences whatsoever. You can register to all the parishes of your diocese and even several other parishes of different dioceses too, without any legal obligation either in the part of you, or the part of the parish priests.

Your parish is where you live, and this is so, no matter how many parishes did you registered. That parish of your domicile has the obligation to register your baptism, first communion, confirmation, matrimony, and that parish has the obligation to provide you the last rites (supposed that you live there at the time when you need that)

Once again: The Catholic Church is not democratic, not people’s choice Church, it is hierarchy, with rules.

Note : some parishes require several month registration before administering sacraments (other than the Eucharist or Penance). The reason for this to distinguish between practicing and not practicing Catholics, not no accept parishioners from outside territory. If you do not return the envelopes (or do not establishes regular credit card payments) they will not consider you worthy of the sacraments.

 

[markomalley]

You can register to all the parishes of your diocese and even several other parishes of different dioceses too, without any legal obligation either in the part of you, or the part of the parish priests.

Exactly. The way your post above made it sound was that the OP would be legally obliged to register in her geographic parish. But that is not the case, as you stated above.

Your parish is where you live, and this is so, no matter how many parishes did you registered. That parish of your domicile has the obligation to register your baptism, first communion, confirmation, matrimony, and that parish has the obligation to provide you the last rites (supposed that you live there at the time when you need that)

Last time I checked, parish where the sacrament was performed had the obligation to record it. And if you need to substantiate participation (for example, if you are going to serve as a godparent, sponsor, etc.), you will get that substantiation from the parish where you are registered, whether it is your geographic parish or not. And so on.

 

[laszlo]

Last time I checked, parish where the sacrament was performed had the obligation to record it. And if you need to substantiate participation (for example, if you are going to serve as a godparent, sponsor, etc.), you will get that substantiation from the parish where you are registered, whether it is your geographic parish or not. And so on.

The process of the recording is that the parish which performs the baptism records it, and reports to the parish, where the person belongs by the Canon Law. For the subsequent sacraments the event should be recorded to the parish of the baptism. There are only three ways to keep complete record:

• to keep them in one place (the parish of the baptism) as the Church did at least from the beginnings of the second millennium
• giving comprehensive personal cards for everyone, and update that card with any change, like the dictatures did in the 20th century
• numbering people (SS number) and keeping the record by that number like the US is doing since Reagan.

It is unfortunate that the many parishes do not keep the proper order, and the consequence is the chaos is recording.

Once more: The Church is hierarchy, a pyramid. Every person has his well defined parish (defined by the law and not by individual choice), every parish belongs to a particular diocese (by the law and not by the choice of the pastor), every diocese belong to Roma regardless what is the opinion of the bishop about the orthodoxy of the pope and the Apostolic See. This is the Roman Catholic Church, in union with Chirst.

 

[markomalley]

The process of the recording is that the parish which performs the baptism records it, and reports to the parish, where the person belongs by the Canon Law. For the subsequent sacraments the event should be recorded to the parish of the baptism. There are only three ways to keep complete record:

• to keep them in one place (the parish of the baptism) as the Church did at least from the beginnings of the second millennium
• giving comprehensive personal cards for everyone, and update that card with any change, like the dictatures did in the 20th century
• numbering people (SS number) and keeping the record by that number like the US is doing since Reagan.

It is unfortunate that the many parishes do not keep the proper order, and the consequence is the chaos is recording.

Once more: The Church is hierarchy, a pyramid. Every person has his well defined parish (defined by the law and not by individual choice), every parish belongs to a particular diocese (by the law and not by the choice of the pastor), every diocese belong to Roma regardless what is the opinion of the bishop about the orthodoxy of the pope and the Apostolic See. This is the Roman Catholic Church, in union with Chirst.

Now you are changing your story. First you said it was in the geographic parish. Now you are saying it is the parish where the baptismal records are kept. You are finally correct, but it would be nice if you would not have given confusing and incorrect advice to a woman who is seeking to enter the Church.

Yes, the baptismal record is the definitive record. But it is maintained in the parish where the baptism occurred. Which is not necessarily the individual’s geographic parish. And it stays that way including if the person permanently changes his/her domicile.
Can. 877 §1. The pastor of the place where the baptism is celebrated must carefully and without any delay record in the baptismal register the names of the baptized, with mention made of the minister, parents, sponsors, witnesses, if any, the place and date of the conferral of the baptism, and the date and place of birth.However, there are also canonically prescribed registers for the other sacraments:

Can. 895 The names of those confirmed with mention made of the minister, the parents and sponsors, and the place and date of the conferral of confirmation are to be recorded in the confirmation register of the diocesan curia or, where the conference of bishops or the diocesan bishop has prescribed it, in a register kept in the parish archive. The pastor must inform the pastor of the place of baptism about the conferral of confirmation so that a notation is made in the baptismal register according to the norm of can. 535, §2.

Can. 1053 §1. After an ordination has taken place, the names of those ordained and of the ordaining minister and the place and date of the ordination are to be noted in a special register to be kept carefully in the curia of the place of ordination; all the documents of individual ordinations are to be preserved carefully.

Can. 1121 §1. After a marriage has been celebrated, the pastor of the place of the celebration or the person who takes his place, even if neither assisted at the marriage, is to note as soon as possible in the marriage register the names of the spouses, the person who assisted, and the witnesses, and the place and date of the celebration of the marriage according to the method prescribed by the conference of bishops or the diocesan bishop.

Can. 1182 When the burial has been completed, a record is to be made in the register of deaths according to the norm of particular law.

The original record of reception of the sacraments (baptism, confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony) are kept in the records of where those sacraments are given (in the case of confirmation and Holy Orders, since the minister is a bishop, the particular register is the diocesan curia). You are correct that the baptismal registry is to be updated with that information. Thank you for making that clear. HOWEVER, that baptismal registry is in the parish where the baptism was celebrated and this may, or may not, be in the geographic parish in which the person was domiciled.

It is important that you be clear about this as the impression you gave in your first post is that the woman is obliged to be a member of her specific geographic parish. And that simply is not accurate…unless the code of canon law is incorrect.

 

[redpaisleywife]

Good Evening - I typed a reply out last night but it never posted mad So I’m going to try again tonight.

First of all to cover some of the questions raised by markomalley:

• I was baptized while in the protestant church I attended growing up. My records are now filed at my husbands “former” parish.
• My husband and I were married in the Church - blessed by a priest and the whole bit. (It was actually my first sacrament received in the Catholic Church so it made the day even more special.)
• Yes we did take classes while engaged. (Just in case you were wondering.)
• Also just in case you ask: I have been married less than one year and my husband and I are still fairly young. When we were talking about getting married I did offer to wait, go through RCIA, etc, etc. In the end we decided that I could do RCIA after the wedding (so here I am).

My husband hasn’t been “inactive” for very long. When he left his parish part of it was our new location and part of it was that many people in the parish didn’t really care about Mass, the Church (both as a whole and the physical building), etc. This is a parish my husband grew up in and had a lot of involvement in during his youth - so of course it was very disheartening for him.

To those of you who suggested Latin Mass, FSSP, etc: I looked and there are none (thats right 0) in the immediate area (within 1 1/2 hour drive). We aren’t quite as metropolitan as I thought I guess. (And yes we are technically metropolitan - just inconveniently located apparently.) It might be possible to attend a Latin Mass once a month though.

Unfortunately it looks like I’m kinda stuck in terms of parishes. I’ve visited the Mass times website (thank you for that link) and visited individual Church websites and unless I find clowns or some of the other scary things mentioned it looks like they are all about the same. One though does have a strong group (I don’t remember if its a Bible study, discussion group, or what) that encompasses my age range. **It sounds like I can attend a parish that isn’t close to home - but the one closest to my home has to keep my records. Is this assumption correct? **

So another question. Does anyone attend Mass before/during lunch/after work? There is a Catholic Church very close to my office (within walking distance) and I could attend Mass before work or during lunch (assuming I have time to take lunch that overlaps Mass).* If any of you have attended Mass during lunch - are there any disadvantages? If you attend Mass before work are there any disadvantages? I don’t think daily Mass is an obligation (correct me if I’m wrong on that) - but I feel it would help me as an individual make it through my daily job duties. *

I’ve been doing research for months now. I’m fairly compulsive in gaining knowledge and being very educated in all of my decisions - but I think this decision has been (not only the most rewarding) but also extremely educational on a multitude of levels (history, philosophy, law.) I wasn’t aware of the home study courses and I thank you for bringing them to my attention.

Thank you everyone for all of your help, advice, and kindness.:curtsey:

 

[markomalley]

Good Evening - I typed a reply out last night but it never posted mad So I’m going to try again tonight.

First of all to cover some of the questions raised by markomalley:

• I was baptized while in the protestant church I attended growing up. My records are now filed at my husbands “former” parish.
• My husband and I were married in the Church - blessed by a priest and the whole bit. (It was actually my first sacrament received in the Catholic Church so it made the day even more special.)
• Yes we did take classes while engaged. (Just in case you were wondering.)
• Also just in case you ask: I have been married less than one year and my husband and I are still fairly young. When we were talking about getting married I did offer to wait, go through RCIA, etc, etc. In the end we decided that I could do RCIA after the wedding (so here I am).

My husband hasn’t been “inactive” for very long. When he left his parish part of it was our new location and part of it was that many people in the parish didn’t really care about Mass, the Church (both as a whole and the physical building), etc. This is a parish my husband grew up in and had a lot of involvement in during his youth - so of course it was very disheartening for him.

To those of you who suggested Latin Mass, FSSP, etc: I looked and there are none (thats right 0) in the immediate area (within 1 1/2 hour drive). We aren’t quite as metropolitan as I thought I guess. (And yes we are technically metropolitan - just inconveniently located apparently.) It might be possible to attend a Latin Mass once a month though.

Unfortunately it looks like I’m kinda stuck in terms of parishes. I’ve visited the Mass times website (thank you for that link) and visited individual Church websites and unless I find clowns or some of the other scary things mentioned it looks like they are all about the same. One though does have a strong group (I don’t remember if its a Bible study, discussion group, or what) that encompasses my age range. **It sounds like I can attend a parish that isn’t close to home - but the one closest to my home has to keep my records. Is this assumption correct? **

So another question. Does anyone attend Mass before/during lunch/after work? There is a Catholic Church very close to my office (within walking distance) and I could attend Mass before work or during lunch (assuming I have time to take lunch that overlaps Mass).* If any of you have attended Mass during lunch - are there any disadvantages? If you attend Mass before work are there any disadvantages? I don’t think daily Mass is an obligation (correct me if I’m wrong on that) - but I feel it would help me as an individual make it through my daily job duties. *

I’ve been doing research for months now. I’m fairly compulsive in gaining knowledge and being very educated in all of my decisions - but I think this decision has been (not only the most rewarding) but also extremely educational on a multitude of levels (history, philosophy, law.) I wasn’t aware of the home study courses and I thank you for bringing them to my attention.

Thank you everyone for all of your help, advice, and kindness.:curtsey:

Daily Mass is not an obligation for the laity. If you choose to go, that is a laudable practice that will bring much benefit to your spiritual life, but it is not an obligation. You may go at any time during the day where it is offered…the one thing to remember is that you are obligated to fast for one hour prior to receiving communion (of course, that is after you are received into the Church). Otherwise, I’d say early morning or noon is up to what works best for you.

As far as your records are concerned, the parish in which you are received into the Church will maintain your “baptismal record” (regardless of where that parish is located). As a female who is married, chances are that the argument that was earlier in the thread will be irrelevant to you. You were baptized in a Protestant church. When you are received into the Church you will be confirmed. And your marriage will be convalidated (if it wasn’t already recognized by the Church as a consequence of your husband being Catholic). So, that takes care of the registry stuff for your purposes.

To stress, though, you can register in any parish. And, especially when considering kids’ education, your ability to be a godmother or sponsor, etc., you should register in the parish where you are active. That way, through the use of Sunday envelopes, they can make a fairly objective decision whether you are an active member or not.