F
- Status
H
H_Opey
Guest
FAB,
IF a child in your diocese presents his case to Rome, or for that matter appeals to Archbishop Sambi who is the Apostolic Nuncio, all that I have read and seen sides with the child.
IF one matter is missing, younger than the dioceasan policy states, the policy is subordinate to the law.
That one matter could be that s/he didn’t attend the parish classes but was instructed at home.
It is a down right shame on everyone that makes these children and their parents feel as if they are doing something terribly wrong because they are not.
It is priest’s duty to hear the concerns of the parishioners and to take care of the spirtiual needs of his flock.
We, the parents are the primary teachers. Some choose to exercise their rights and teach their children at home.
Whatever the case may be, those children who are instructed and prepared at home have every much right to the sacraments regardless.
A good priest and DRE knows how to respond to this and knows how to pull his flock together without dividing them unnecessarily.
What you propose is unreasonable.
IF a child in your diocese presents his case to Rome, or for that matter appeals to Archbishop Sambi who is the Apostolic Nuncio, all that I have read and seen sides with the child.
IF one matter is missing, younger than the dioceasan policy states, the policy is subordinate to the law.
That one matter could be that s/he didn’t attend the parish classes but was instructed at home.
It is a down right shame on everyone that makes these children and their parents feel as if they are doing something terribly wrong because they are not.
It is priest’s duty to hear the concerns of the parishioners and to take care of the spirtiual needs of his flock.
We, the parents are the primary teachers. Some choose to exercise their rights and teach their children at home.
Whatever the case may be, those children who are instructed and prepared at home have every much right to the sacraments regardless.
A good priest and DRE knows how to respond to this and knows how to pull his flock together without dividing them unnecessarily.
What you propose is unreasonable.
C
CDNowak
Guest
Discipline first comes from Rome, and Rome has the final say. Canonically, there is great concern shown for the rights of the faithful (Canon 18 Laws which establish a penalty, restrict the free exercise of rights, or contain an exception from the law are subject to strict interpretation.). In this case the rights and responsibility of the parents are being challenged (Canon 226 §2. Since they have given life to their children, parents have a most grave obligation and possess the right to educate them.).
The notitia on the age of confirmation actually goes much further than the age, as to the limits of Diocesan policy to raise obstacle to those who are prepared to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. (“Consequently, when a member of the faithful wishes to receive this Sacrament, even though not satisfying one or more elements of the local legislation (e.g., being younger than the designated age for administration of the Sacrament), those elements must give way to the fundamental right of the faithful to receive the Sacraments.”) Again, this official clarification notes that the age for the Sacrament is that of reason, and the bishop cannot withhold the Sacrament because he set a higher age.
You have raised the issue of whether parents of the current generation of adults were responsible for the failure in catechesis (my words). The fact that the agreeably poor state of Catholic knowledge of the faith stems from when virtually all Catholics received their instruction in school or CCD has gone unacknowledged.
I would also suggest you find your local Catholic homeschool group and actually meet some homeschoolers before you impute any more motives. (Or you could do the decent thing and assume the best).
F
FAB
Guest
Truely I will pray for you who are home schoolers. You seem to have such a distrust of authority, that it leads to your doubt to even question your odinary and your priest. The greatest danger is that you educate your children with a very narrow view of the faith and you place in them that same questioning and same doubt.
Peace,
FAB
C
CDNowak
Guest
Yup, I have such a distrust of authority that I am arguing from (the proper) authority. What you seem to be advocating is clericalism, an authoritarian (not authoritative) position that shows a lack of understanding of the nature and bounds of authority and obedience. My “narrow education” indeed leads me to “trust, but verify”, resulting not in blind obedience but willful obedience.
Of course the past century or so have taught us that it is rather dangerous (spiritually, morally, physically) to teach one’s children to follow authority blindly, whether it be secular or religious. But I love how you can read the hearts and minds of all homeschoolers, better than they know themselves, without knowing them. (btw, I’m single and discerning what my vocation is, most likely a return to some sort of monastic life)
F
FAB
Guest
C
CDNowak
Guest
You continue to miss my point. If we put the [local regulation] above the spiritual and supernatural aspect of the [Sacrament], we become as the Pharisees, putting [local] law above [universal law and] human need. I also do not presume to speak for the Church as you seem to.
I rest my case.
F
FAB
Guest
H
H_Opey
Guest
FAB,
Your answer is also why we have prayed that this very thing would be discussed at the USCCB. There is nothing wrong with guidelines as long as the interpretation of the law and how the Church understand the application is understood.
Till then, I am very thankful for the ability to appeal our case. I am also thankful for other dioceses that allow those who are in similar situations to come to their diocese.
Your answer is also why we have prayed that this very thing would be discussed at the USCCB. There is nothing wrong with guidelines as long as the interpretation of the law and how the Church understand the application is understood.
Till then, I am very thankful for the ability to appeal our case. I am also thankful for other dioceses that allow those who are in similar situations to come to their diocese.
B
BornCatholic7
Guest
(posted by FAB"…)to refuse to follow guidelines set out and approved by the ordinary, the authority of the local church gives me pause. It makes thier paticipation on the church on of being self centered, as opposed to community."
FAB, what you are not grasping is this: If guidleines set by a local parish, or diocese, disobey the Canon Law and violate the authority parents have in teaching, then the faithful must never be forced to follow any guidelines that go against the Church. For some reason, these guidelines are being misinterpreted as being required in order to receive the sacrament of Confirmation. For some reason there are parishes which are forcing
candidates to engage in parish education programs and parish retreats which are not needed if parents are already teaching the sacraments. One must never be forced to participate in anything in order to receive a sacrament.
Regarding Community:
Using the word “community” is really being used as a distraction from the issue at hand. There are other ways to be apart of the “Church community.” If participating in parish religion programs is the only way to belong to Church community then the rest of the church members who are already confirmed are not apart of the “community”, in this realm of thinking. Given that thought, I’m sure all would disagree that in order to apart of the church community one needs to be in a parish program.
All this forcing, division, and conflict (which is caused by the opinions some priests and catechists of parish programs have) grieves the Holy Spirit as He cannot do the individual work in each candidate.
On the bigger picture, this is a spiritual war between the sacrament of Holy Orders and Sacrament of Marriage.
Now, does anyone have any suggestions on how I or other parents should handle this?
FAB, what you are not grasping is this: If guidleines set by a local parish, or diocese, disobey the Canon Law and violate the authority parents have in teaching, then the faithful must never be forced to follow any guidelines that go against the Church. For some reason, these guidelines are being misinterpreted as being required in order to receive the sacrament of Confirmation. For some reason there are parishes which are forcing
candidates to engage in parish education programs and parish retreats which are not needed if parents are already teaching the sacraments. One must never be forced to participate in anything in order to receive a sacrament.
Regarding Community:
Using the word “community” is really being used as a distraction from the issue at hand. There are other ways to be apart of the “Church community.” If participating in parish religion programs is the only way to belong to Church community then the rest of the church members who are already confirmed are not apart of the “community”, in this realm of thinking. Given that thought, I’m sure all would disagree that in order to apart of the church community one needs to be in a parish program.
All this forcing, division, and conflict (which is caused by the opinions some priests and catechists of parish programs have) grieves the Holy Spirit as He cannot do the individual work in each candidate.
On the bigger picture, this is a spiritual war between the sacrament of Holy Orders and Sacrament of Marriage.
Now, does anyone have any suggestions on how I or other parents should handle this?
B
BornCatholic7
Guest
As a side thought…
All of this reminds me of how people miss the point of Christmas. People get so caught up in attending parties, decorations, and buying gifts, that they miss the simple joy and forget all about the real meaning of Christmas, celebrating Christ’s birth. Receiving the sacraments is not meant to be participated in this manner either.
All of this reminds me of how people miss the point of Christmas. People get so caught up in attending parties, decorations, and buying gifts, that they miss the simple joy and forget all about the real meaning of Christmas, celebrating Christ’s birth. Receiving the sacraments is not meant to be participated in this manner either.
H
H_Opey
Guest
As far as what to do:
You speak with the DRE and let him/her know your intentions and see if the parish has guidelines for those that prepare at home (on what should be covered) if not inquire if the diocese has set guidelines for those that prepare at home (home schoolers).
That is where I would start and then go from there.
Parishes are set up differently and some are more than willing to work with those that wish to prepare their children at home.
You speak with the DRE and let him/her know your intentions and see if the parish has guidelines for those that prepare at home (on what should be covered) if not inquire if the diocese has set guidelines for those that prepare at home (home schoolers).
That is where I would start and then go from there.
Parishes are set up differently and some are more than willing to work with those that wish to prepare their children at home.
H
H_Opey
Guest
If problems occur the next step would be the pastor.
The next step, if not resolved, would be the Bishop, or his office.
In the unfortunate event that it isn’t reconciled there, you can appeal to Archbishop Sambi in DC.
That is very briefly the steps and the first and most important is charity and clarity. Should things not be reconciled on the parish level, write letters and keep copies. Don’t be afraid to ask questions and know that if it get to that point, it could take a while to get an answer.
But, I was told by a priest once that when requesting something, from a Bishop, if you do not hear a response in 1 month, you could assume it is a “no” and follow up with the same. We made that mistake and waited almost 14 months for our first response.
The next step, if not resolved, would be the Bishop, or his office.
In the unfortunate event that it isn’t reconciled there, you can appeal to Archbishop Sambi in DC.
That is very briefly the steps and the first and most important is charity and clarity. Should things not be reconciled on the parish level, write letters and keep copies. Don’t be afraid to ask questions and know that if it get to that point, it could take a while to get an answer.
But, I was told by a priest once that when requesting something, from a Bishop, if you do not hear a response in 1 month, you could assume it is a “no” and follow up with the same. We made that mistake and waited almost 14 months for our first response.
H
H_Opey
Guest
Also, instead of appealing to Archbishop Sambi, if you know a diocese around and parish that is willing to work with you and your child, you could ask permission from your Bishop for your child/ren to receive the sacrament in another diocese. Some will do this with permission from your Bishop.
I would try my best to exhaust every way to resolve this in your parish/diocese first.
I would try my best to exhaust every way to resolve this in your parish/diocese first.
F
FAB
Guest
H
H_Opey
Guest
Can Bishops err in their application and interpretation of the law?
I think so.
Has the age for the sacraments changed over the years?
Yes.
Why?
Because through the appeals of children and parents and from that, a deeper understanding of what the sacrament is and how the law is applied.
There is no reason this should be an issue really.
I think so.
Has the age for the sacraments changed over the years?
Yes.
Why?
Because through the appeals of children and parents and from that, a deeper understanding of what the sacrament is and how the law is applied.
There is no reason this should be an issue really.
- Status