Parishioners billed $72,000 for TLM (not a joke)

[bobzills]

No, it doesn’t depend on How many and what)

Really? Even if he got the words of Consecration in Latin wrong?

 

[dkoinzan]

Really I think there is some discerning that needs to go on. I have seen a priest who completely changes the words of the Gospel to better reflect what he would choose to find. I think that needs to be brought to the priests attention. That priest also leaves things out or add things to the Consecration. The lay people need to address this and pray, pray, pray! I have also seen priest say a half hour Latin Mass every time he does it! That priest needs to see the love and joy of what he is doing. We fast and pray for that priest. There is one priest that says Mass with everything in the right order, but he is the meanest man I have ever met. That priest gets my sacrifices, my prayers, and my distance. We are all human. We give witness by our actions. Be Holy! Be Gentle! Love! Stand up for truth! If they want 72 thousand for Latin Mass. Give them twice that and ask for another!

 

[ethelzguy]

I have also seen priest say a half hour Latin Mass every time he does it! That priest needs to see the love and joy of what he is doing.

Perhaps his heart really isn’t in it, and he’s just doing it to appease some parishoners?

As I reflect on “the good old days”, while Mass was in Latin and Communion was at “the rail”, my memory says that things weren’t all that extra-reverent at all. It was more mechanical, and in 3rd or 4th gear.

Actually, in retrospect, Communion at the rail, might have even been FASTER than “standing in the hand”…at least where I’ve been going to Mass since the mid 70’s.

Standing in the hand, does generate eye contact with the priest, where the rail did not.

 

[dkoinzan]

I know his heart isn’t in it. The language doesn’t change the fact that he is in Persona Christi and that is awesome!

Oh what joy to be able to recieve on my knees. I don’t look at the priest as much as I look for Jesus. Pray for our Priests!

I am sure their job is heard, but God gives them the grace to do it, so it isn’t impossible!

 

[Auntie_M]

Really? Even if he got the words of Consecration in Latin wrong?

Do YOU really think that a priest would “intentionally” say the wrong words…again look to the “intent”…Even if that “priest” intended to get the words wrong, but the faithful believe it is right and true, then it has done it’s purpose. There is a section in Canon Law as to whether the faithful are actually taking Jesus in the Eucharist if the “priest” is not a VALID AND LICIT priest. I shall look that up and get back to you on that one. Because it does talk about the “intent” of both parties.
When you call someone “brother” does that make him your blood “brother” or are you “intending” to mean a spiritual brother or just a very good friend that is like a brother. You have to go by the INTENT as it says in Cannon Law. As Jesus says, not all that say Lord, Lord, will get into Heaven…Wonder Why…maybe their INTENT is to fool others and pad their pockets…

It is NOT what’s on the OUTSIDE that matters so much as what is on the INSIDE

As a Realtor, I always told people that "Houses are like people, it’s what on the INSIDE that counts.

 

[Auntie_M]

As for the “taking on the knees”…Well, Jesus, (ON NO)
will say to all of us who don’t…Leave, Depart from me cause you didn’t get on your knees…Come on…get real…What you do on the outside WILL NOT get anyone to heaven. If you LOOK religious…does that MAKE you religious? I don’t remember Jesus ever saying to anyone, YOU HAVE TO TAKE MY BODY AND BLOOD ON THE KNEES OR YOU CAN’T TAKE IT. Just why does people think that this way is soooo religious and standing is not. There again, INTENT…

And there again, you are judging me because I don’t get on my knees, or that I wear slacks, or that I don’t cover my head in mass…Do you really think God will not let me into heaven for not doing these things AND let YOU into heaven for judging me?..UMMM I guess there will be an awfull lot of empty space in heaven. But I guess that is why the TLM are taught that Jesus died “for many” and not for all.

Read all the scriptures and let me know that this is true…

Matthews does say “for many” right…as is taught to some
Ex. 24:8… covenant which the Lord as made with YOU (who is YOU). Was this covenant only for ONE person… that YOU he was talking to?
1st Corr 11:25 …Cup of new covenant. As often as YOU drink it…I guess that ONE person (the YOU) is the one one that gets to drink of the new covenant.
Lev 16: 15-16…Blood atonement for sinful Israelites…Sorry folks, It’s only the Israelites that the blood atones for.
Those of you who are taught that it is “for many” that Jesus Died
for. Sorry, the Bible says it’s was only ONE person that gets to drink of the New Covenant.

So then, I guess it really doesn’t make a difference whether we stand or kneel. Our fate is seal…it’s only the israelites
that the blood atones for.

See how silly this all sounds…But this is one of the MAIN points brought out by some groups of TLM. They must be ALL Israelites!!!

I honestly think that some people HAVE to ACT religious to BE religious. That’s is not scriptural or Traditional.

 

[dkoinzan]

I didn’t say everyone should recieve on their knees. I just said I would love to recieve on my knees. I know from teaching my children that sometime what we do with our bodies can help us in our mind. I am no more religious than anyone else. I am doing the best I can do to get to heaven, that leaves little time to worry about weather people are standing or sitting or kneeling…

God loves us all and I am in no way saying I am better than anyone else. I simply would love to recieve on my knees.

God Bless! I am praying for the parishoners that need to raise the money for Latin Mass.

 

[bobzills]

Do YOU really think that a priest would “intentionally” say the wrong words.

You said it didn’t matter what the mistake was. Now you say it is the intention which is important. Have you changed your mind on whether or not the type of mistake is important to the discussion? Regardless of intention, there are mistakes of a serious type which are worthy of pointing out to someone.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

You said it didn’t matter what the mistake was. Now you say it is the intention which is important. Have you changed your mind on whether or not the type of mistake is important to the discussion? Regardless of intention, there are mistakes of a serious type which are worthy of pointing out to someone.

“A Priest — whoever he may be — is always another Christ.” - St. Jose Maria Escriva

Would you correct Christ for not saying the mass the way you expected?

 

[Writer]

“A Priest — whoever he may be — is always another Christ.” - St. Jose Maria Escriva

Would you correct Christ for not saying the mass the way you expected?

Pages of meditations could be written on that profound, but short, quote. The quote is right–and on multiple levels. It is perhaps most true when the priest acts in Persona Christi, but there is also a sense in which this saying can be applied to our daily interactions with everyone. Like what C.S. Lewis wrote *in Weight of *Glory, the way we behave towards others is the way we behave towards Christ (to badly paraphrase his words).

I think that there is a bit of a logic disconnect, though, to say that this saint’s quote implies that priests can never make errors, or be in need of some kind of correction. Still, the underlying message of the post is a good one to bear in mind. We should certainly give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[bobzills]

“A Priest — whoever he may be — is always another Christ.” - St. Jose Maria Escriva

Would you correct Christ for not saying the mass the way you expected?

This is a misuse of the teaching that the priest is another Christ. Let me give you an example: We have a Catholic priest,
Father Andrew Greeley, who writes the most foul, lewd, vulgar novels, which contain expressions that can only be described as blasphemous.I am not sure if I can give examples here without being suspended. In any event, since he is another Christ, would you offer him only praise and thanks for his pornographic writings? Or to give another example, since the priest is another Christ, if he were to baptise in the name of the Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctfier, would you then accept this even though the Vatican has said that this type of formulation invalidates the Sacrament? A cosnequence of your positon is that it would be better to accept an invalid baptism then to correct him on this, since by correcting the priest, you are correcting Our Divine Lord and Savior?

 

[ethelzguy]

This is a misuse of the teaching that the priest is another Christ. Let me give you an example: We have a Catholic priest,
Father Andrew Greeley, who writes the most foul, lewd, vulgar novels, which contain expressions that can only be described as blasphemous.I am not sure if I can give examples here without being suspended. In any event, since he is another Christ, would you offer him only praise and thanks for his pornographic writings? Or to give another example, since the priest is another Christ, if he were to baptise in the name of the Creator, Redeemer, and Sanctfier, would you then accept this even though the Vatican has said that this type of formulation invalidates the Sacrament? A cosnequence of your positon is that it would be better to accept an invalid baptism then to correct him on this, since by correcting the priest, you are correcting Our Divine Lord and Savior?

You raise an interesting point. While a priest may engage in various activities that we may find offensive, does that invalidate any Sacrements performed by said priest? I would be surprised if the answer were affirmative.

 

[JReducation]

Again, I think you are off on this. The vow of poverty is a thing a person takes, not a community. St Francis wanted his order to have a communal poverty but it was found that this was an unrealistic thing. Poverty means owning no property.

Most likely they have the same model we do which is through the Christian Brothers. We are self-insured. But we do this though an insurance company so that we get the negotiated costs that the insurance company has. If this was not so then there is no way any religious community could survive. As for retirement, we have retirement plans that we fund ourselves as well as taking advantage of Social Security (for those who have had other careers before entering) and Medicad.

Br. David,

I can tell you that our system is slightly different as well as that of other communities.

However, that’s not the question of the thread. The OP is about having to pay for a full-time priest for a special ministry.

My point is that whether the priest is a secular priest or a religious, if you take him out of a slot somewhere, he still needs an income for himself or for his community. I don’t see why it is unreasonable to expect that those whom he serves provide that income.

JR

 

[Auntie_M]

I prefer the Ordinary Mass over the Tridentine Mass although I would like to see some features of the Tridentine Mass blended into the Ordinary Mass.

Now to the question at hand. I feel that Mass should be provided without compensation NO MATTER THE FORM OF MASS.

Well this would certainly solve the delimma, wouldn’t it. This would close the doors on all the churches…no money to operate:shrug:

 

[bobzills]

You raise an interesting point. While a priest may engage in various activities that we may find offensive, does that invalidate any Sacrements performed by said priest? I would be surprised if the answer were affirmative.

I am addressing the question of whether or not there do arise occasions when it may be appropriate to offer a correction to a priest, even though he may be another Christ. It looks to me like there would be such occasions, so I take issue with those who say that such a situation would never arise.

 

[Auntie_M]

I am addressing the question of whether or not there do arise occasions when it may be appropriate to offer a correction to a priest, even though he may be another Christ. It looks to me like there would be such occasions, so I take issue with those who say that such a situation would never arise.

Our priest are human and there is definitely a posibility of error. But, my response to my priest…in private…would be to ask him to explain the “error” to me as I don’t understand what it means. And as he is explaining to me, IF he is wrong, he will realize it and correct himself…
AND If I am in the wrong, then I will have learned something new about our faith, haven’t I?..AND THIS WAY no one goes away insulted or with hurt feelings…Thank you …

 

[bobzills]

Our priest are human and there is definitely a posibility of error. But, my response to my priest…in private…would be to ask him to explain the “error” to me as I don’t understand what it means. And as he is explaining to me, IF he is wrong, he will realize it and correct himself…
AND If I am in the wrong, then I will have learned something new about our faith, haven’t I?..AND THIS WAY no one goes away insulted or with hurt feelings…Thank you …

Obviously, I would favor a polite and respectful approach in a situation such as this. But people were implying that a situation such as this could never come up, because the priest was an alter Christus or something to that effect.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Br. David,

I can tell you that our system is slightly different as well as that of other communities.

However, that’s not the question of the thread. The OP is about having to pay for a full-time priest for a special ministry.

My point is that whether the priest is a secular priest or a religious, if you take him out of a slot somewhere, he still needs an income for himself or for his community. I don’t see why it is unreasonable to expect that those whom he serves provide that income.

JR

And that we can agree on.

 

[Claudius]

, he still needs an income for himself or for his community. I don’t see why it is unreasonable to expect that those whom he serves provide that income.

You know, one of the tennents of the Church that some of us are forgetting is the fact that we are called to support our clergy. These men give up their lives, some their dreams, some their fortunes to serve God and ultimately to administer the sacrements to us. Now, when I open up my Missal and read the bit in the front that is a brief compendium of Catholic doctrines, I see that the Ten commandments are listed, the seven deadly sins, the corporeal acts of mercy … and on and on. I also see the seven tennents of the Church. The First is to Go to Mass on Sunday and hear the word of God preached. The second is to recieve Communion at least once a year at Easter. The third is to confess your sins and do repentance. The fourth is to materialy, finacially and other wise, support your clergy and your parish.

 

[ethelzguy]

It seems that the recurring theme in this thread is what the potential congregation members want from the Church, not what the Church asks of it’s congregation members.

As a Catholic President once said, “Ask not what your…”