Parochial school teachings

[OhioTeacher]

Hello all!

This is my first post here, so I apologize if I’m posting in the wrong place. I just thought I would join these boards so I could learn a bit about Catholicism. I am a non-Catholic (United Church of Christ member) marrying a Catholic, so I am trying to figure things out a bit.

In any case, we have already discussed the topic of having children (which we both want sooner rather than later). I have agreed that although I will not convert to Catholicism, we will raise our kids in the Catholic church with the agreement that we will also attend my church every few weeks or so, so they can learn about my religion and traditions. And against my better judgment, we will most likely end up sending our kids to parochial schools. My fiance has said that these points are pretty much non-negotiable.

My question is specifically about what our children might be taught in school regarding those who are believers but not Catholic. How are the subjects of heaven/hell/purgatory addressed in relation to those who aren’t Catholic? I am baptized in the UCC church if that makes a difference. I know that schools probably differ just as parishes do…I’m just wondering if anyone can give me any of their experiences or opinions?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Hello all!

This is my first post here, so I apologize if I’m posting in the wrong place. I just thought I would join these boards so I could learn a bit about Catholicism. I am a non-Catholic (United Church of Christ member) marrying a Catholic, so I am trying to figure things out a bit.

In any case, we have already discussed the topic of having children (which we both want sooner rather than later). I have agreed that although I will not convert to Catholicism, we will raise our kids in the Catholic church with the agreement that we will also attend my church every few weeks or so, so they can learn about my religion and traditions. And against my better judgment, we will most likely end up sending our kids to parochial schools. My fiance has said that these points are pretty much non-negotiable.

My question is specifically about what our children might be taught in school regarding those who are believers but not Catholic. How are the subjects of heaven/hell/purgatory addressed in relation to those who aren’t Catholic? I am baptized in the UCC church if that makes a difference. I know that schools probably differ just as parishes do…I’m just wondering if anyone can give me any of their experiences or opinions?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hello and welcome!
You are correct that in one sense there are as many possible answers as there are schools and parishes. But from my (Massachusetts) experience: Our younger daughter recently completed 13 years in parochial school (K through senior in high school; we were fortunate to be only a half-hour from a remaining Catholic grammar school, to which we drove her every day.)

Maybe 20% of the grammar school enrollment was non-Catholic. It is an urban school (not inner-city, however), and a number of the community’s Protestant ministers, especially Baptist, sent their children to the school because of the sad state of local public schools. There was nothing but respect taught regarding other faiths or other Christians. Certainly nothing along the lines of “only Catholics are saved.” There are probably some on these boards who would have found fault with that approach, actually. I believe that school’s policy was that non-Catholic children went to Mass when there was a school Mass, but no active participation was required; it was intended as a lesson in mutual understanding regarding what Catholics REALLY did and believed (there being many misunderstandings about that).

I wish you and your fiance, and your “someday” children, all the best. I hope that other responders are similarly positive.

 

[Thomas63116]

I grew up in a situation very much like what you and your fiance seem to be planning for your family. My dad was raised Catholic, my mom was raised in the UCC. My brother and I were raised Catholic and attended Catholic schools.

I’m sure it varies by parish, and I’m sure that things have changed in the 10+ years since I finished my Catholic education. But for what it’s worth, I’ll give you my experience with the issues you ask about. For background, I attended an urban parish grade school where probably 30% to 40% of the students were not Catholic. My high school was an all boys Catholic College Prep school that was probably 95% Catholic.

Both in high school and in college, there was very little time spent directly discussing other religious traditions. The focus was really on understanding the Catholic faith - the Sacraments, the Scriptures, Catholic prayers and traditions (the Rosary, Stations of the Cross, etc.) and major Catholic doctrines. There was a recognition that we shared a lot in common with non-Catholic Christians, including the Bible and a common Baptism. To the extent that other faiths were discussed, I recall the tone being one of respect, very much in keeping with the teachings of Vatican II.

Your question seems to imply a fear that Catholics believe we are on our way to heaven while everyone else is headed for hell, or a best a lengthy sentence in purgatory. That’s certainly not what I was taught. Catholics don’t believe that anyone other than God can judge the state of an individual’s soul. We don’t know whether a person is headed to heaven, hell or purgatory.

I think the overall perspective I learned was this: We as Catholics are called to live in accordance with the truth we know from our faith. Other religions have elements of this truth as well, and everyone is called to live in accordance with the truth as best they know it. Ultimately, only God can judge how well each of us lives up to that obligation.

I hope that helps answer your questions. Best wishes to you and your fiance!

 

[KingAlfred]

Hello all!

This is my first post here, so I apologize if I’m posting in the wrong place. I just thought I would join these boards so I could learn a bit about Catholicism. I am a non-Catholic (United Church of Christ member) marrying a Catholic, so I am trying to figure things out a bit.

In any case, we have already discussed the topic of having children (which we both want sooner rather than later). I have agreed that although I will not convert to Catholicism, we will raise our kids in the Catholic church with the agreement that we will also attend my church every few weeks or so, so they can learn about my religion and traditions. And against my better judgment, we will most likely end up sending our kids to parochial schools. My fiance has said that these points are pretty much non-negotiable.

My question is specifically about what our children might be taught in school regarding those who are believers but not Catholic. How are the subjects of heaven/hell/purgatory addressed in relation to those who aren’t Catholic? I am baptized in the UCC church if that makes a difference. I know that schools probably differ just as parishes do…I’m just wondering if anyone can give me any of their experiences or opinions?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Your fiancee sounds determined. Are you sure you can abide by his dictates? As the kids grow older, this might become a source of rebellion, confusion and conflict. If you feel strongly enough about your faith that you won’t convert to Catholicism, perhaps you won’t be able to fully support their Catholic upbringing. Just some thoughts.

 

[OhioTeacher]

Thank you all for your thoughts…it was interesting to hear everyone’s take on this and I appreciate your insight. Your answers were what I was hoping to hear. Yes, my fiance is determined. We have discussed that while I will not oppose the teachings of the Catholic church, he is going to be the one who is primarily responsible for their religious upbringing. I will help and support in whatever way I can. My converting to Catholicism is not an option for me. I will, of course, support any teachings of the Catholic church up until any point at which there is an indication that the path that I have chosen for myself is wrong. I am truly hoping and believing that the teachings of the Catholic church will not head in that direction, as my fiance has told me that the children will grow up in the Catholic church, but also becoming familiar with my prayers and traditions.

I think that it is interesting though that as I read through these boards, it is always assumed that the non-Catholic parent is the one who should have to make the choice whether or not to convert. Never in my church would that request be made. I understand about the Catholic church having more structure and all of that, but it just seems like the assumption is always there that if it can’t be 100% Catholic all of the time, then the marriage and the children are destined to fail. I have received PM’s and messages to this end and I think that is sad that BOTH spouses aren’t able to support their spouses spiritually. To me, it always seems like the non-Catholic is to support the Catholic spiritually and not vice-versa. I know I’m opening up a whole can of worms, but I appreciate the thoughts from the posters who had positive experiences to share. It makes me have hope!

Blessings to you all!

 

[Rawb]

I think that it is interesting though that as I read through these boards, it is always assumed that the non-Catholic parent is the one who should have to make the choice whether or not to convert. Never in my church would that request be made. I understand about the Catholic church having more structure and all of that, but it just seems like the assumption is always there that if it can’t be 100% Catholic all of the time, then the marriage and the children are destined to fail. I have received PM’s and messages to this end and I think that is sad that BOTH spouses aren’t able to support their spouses spiritually. To me, it always seems like the non-Catholic is to support the Catholic spiritually and not vice-versa. I know I’m opening up a whole can of worms, but I appreciate the thoughts from the posters who had positive experiences to share. It makes me have hope!

Well Catholics aren’t going to want a Catholic to convert to another faith, obviously .

One problem I don’t think that a lot of protestants think about when getting into a mixed marriage is that the Catholic Culture is very strong. It can permeate everything very easily even if just teaching prayers. For example, a child raised Catholic by the age of nine would be expected to know the Hail Mary, the Our Father, the Glory Be, and the Rosary. They’d be expected to know the responses at Mass and about the Real Presence, they’d be expected to know about Saints, probably have a favorite, would probably by default refer to Jesus as “Christ” or “Our Lord” rather than Jesus, They’d know about sin and how to avoid it. They’d be expected to know the postures of Mass and probably several Catholic Hymns and songs such as “Ave Maria”. They would know the stories of The Bible (Noah, Moses, Elijah, Jesus, Mary Magdalene, etc).

That’s just basic Catholicism, but all of that would have been taught by the age of nine. Compare to what will be taught equivilantly by a protestant Sunday School. From my recollection (I was raised protestant) I would’ve known:

That Jesus loves me, the songs “I am a C”, “I’ve got a river of life”, “Jesus Loves me This I know”, “This little Light of Mine”, and “The Wise Man”. I knew some Bible Stories, (the same ones above, except maybe Mary Magdalene). I would’ve known about sin and behaving correctly.

Now I’m not saying the Catholic Church is better because the kids will know more things that are traditionally Catholic, I’m saying that the Catholic teachings could easily overwhelm the protestant teachings just by scope. If your faith has memorized prayers or standard Liturgy, or traditions like the Advent Wreath or Liturgical Time then maybe it would be more even.

I think of it like a German marrying an Italian or Hispanic. German culture is very mild and doesn’t have many things specifically ‘German’, whereas Italian and HIspanic do, so a child of that union woud probably consider themselves more Italian or Hispanic.

Not trying to put you off, just providing some perspective.

 

[Thomas63116]

I’m glad if I could provide some reassurance. I don’t want to minimize the difficulties involved in mixed religious marriages, but I know a lot of couples who appear to have handled the challenges very well, so that shapes my perspective. Other people have had less positive experiences, and I’m sure that shapes their views on the topic as well.

I think that it is interesting though that as I read through these boards, it is always assumed that the non-Catholic parent is the one who should have to make the choice whether or not to convert. Never in my church would that request be made.

Please keep in mind that many of the people who post on these boards skew towards a rather extreme traditionalism in their Catholicism. You will find plenty of people here who think the Church made a mistake at Vatican II by adopting a more concilliatory tone towards other religions. There folks seem to believe that the Church should just condemn anyone who believes differently as heretics and that return to the days when mixed marriages were essentially forbidden. Most of these people also seem to think that the only way to ensure the proper Catholic education of their children is to homeschool them, because too much of secular culture has permeated the Catholic schools. People with this perspective seem to be disproportionately represented here at CAF, far more so than they are among lay people in a typical parish, or even among priests and bishops.

On the other hand, you have to remember that the Catholic Church is a religion that believes very strongly in objective truth and believes that it has “The Truth with a Capital T” so to speak. Our Protestant friends, neighbors, and relatives have elements of that truth, including a valid baptism, access to the Scriptures, etc. But we really do believe that they are “missing out” on some important things. Most obvious is the Real Presence in the Eucharist, as well as the other sacraments. The Church’s concern in mixed marriages is that the Catholic party not lose what they have, and that they are able to pass on the faith to their children.

My experince has been that most mainline Protestants denominations see all of Christainity as essentially the same, with the variations among denominations mostly details that don’t matter too much. If one approaches inter-faith relationships with this, perspective it makes sense that no one would be asked to convert. The result can also be that the Catholic approach comes off as heavy handed and off-putting, but I hope what I have written above helps explain the Catholic perspective.

 

[OhioTeacher]

Thank you so much Thomas and others (sorry, I don’t know everyone’s names yet! ) for putting my mind at ease. My fiance and I ARE getting married and it is most definitely not something we are taking lightly. We have had lengthy discussions with the priest marrying us as well as with a Catholic marriage counselor throughout the past several months. Both are extremely supportive and very optimistic about the success of our marriage. The question is not whether or not we’re getting married…the question is about the teachings of the church and incorporating beliefs into a marriage with more than one religion.

Thomas, I was glad to read your comment about these boards being skewed a bit toward the extreme traditionalist end of Catholicism. Believe me, I didn’t grow up in a bubble. I had many Catholic friends growing up and attended a Catholic university. But I have to say that I’ve been a bit surprised of some of the things I have read here. It was never my perception that my friends help some of the beliefs I have read here. You guys have definitely given me a view of Catholicism that is less extreme and more in line with what I see around here. Thank you so much for your kind (name removed by moderator)ut! Oh, and Rawb, I had to laugh at your German/Irish comment…my family is a mix of German and English (I’m kind of a mutt) and my fiance is Irish. Yet another area that I feel a bit overwhelmed and “forgotten” when it comes to traditions, customs and celebrations. My family doesn’t have anything specific to the German heritage that we celebrate but you can bet that my fiance and I have the Irish flag flying from the front of the house. Sigh…I’ll keep working on it.

Thanks again guys!

 

[kage_ar]

Well, Catholics do believe and accept all that is taught and held as doctrine by the Church. Just because we believe what the Church teaches does not make us “extremists”

You are attepmting something that is much bigger than where kids will go to school and attending an extra Church service on some weekends.

The UCC holds beliefs that are directly opposed to the beliefs of the Catholic Church. Kids are smart, they know that something is right or wrong, opposite things cannot both be right.

Abortion is either sinful or it is not. Homosexual sex is wrong or it is right. Women can either be ordained or they can’t. Contraception is either wrong or it is right. Mary is a perpetual virgin or She is not. The Eucharist is the Body of Christ or it is not.

Before you get married, look at all the different beliefs the two of you hold - can you mix the two?

 

[OhioTeacher]

Well, Catholics do believe and accept all that is taught and held as doctrine by the Church. Just because we believe what the Church teaches does not make us “extremists”

The UCC holds beliefs that are directly opposed to the beliefs of the Catholic Church. Kids are smart, they know that something is right or wrong, opposite things cannot both be right.

Abortion is either sinful or it is not. Homosexual sex is wrong or it is right. Women can either be ordained or they can’t. Contraception is either wrong or it is right. Mary is a perpetual virgin or She is not. The Eucharist is the Body of Christ or it is not.

No, just because you believe what the Church teaches doesn’t make you an “extremist”, but one Catholic can be more extreme in his/her views than another. For example, my fiance is most definitely Catholic, and does believe most of the things that you mentioned (he does not have issues with contraception). But just because I was raised UCC, that does not automatically mean that I am a flag waver and a cheerleader for abortion and homosexual sex either. I’m not sure if you think all UCC members automatically subscribe to ALL things accepted by the UCC, but we don’t. Just because a particular view or issue may be accepted by the UCC does not mean that it is necessary a value I share. I think that is where Catholics as a whole are sometimes misled. Just because you personally believe and accept ALL that is taught as doctrine by the Church does not mean that other religions work that way. It is very possible for me to be a UCC member in good standing, but to not share EVERY view that the church as a whole accepts.

Ironically, the priest that is marrying us used your “children are very smart” line to assure us that our marriage will work. My fiance was initially worried that any children we have might be confused if they were exposed to both traditions and views. The priest disagreed, saying to give children more credit as being smart individuals. He indicated that exposing our kids to both views, traditions, etc. (which I insist upon) would not confuse them, but would instead enrich them. My children will know that the path that their father and I are choosing to raise them in is not necessarily the path that everyone (including their mother) has chosen…and that it is OK. Because of the way we choose to live our lives, we will all end up in the same place in the end (or at least, my husband and I think we will!) Either way, we’ve got some explaining to do…my fiance has two members of his family who are Catholic and gay. I think that trying to explain that situation in the context of Catholic doctrine is going to be a liiiiiiittle more difficult than sharing some of my views and traditions with them.

 

[OhioTeacher]

I think that is where Catholics as a whole are sometimes misled.

Sorry, when I said this, I meant that “this is where Catholics as a whole are sometimes misled about other religions” not that they are misled in general. I just reread this and I didn’t state my opinion clearly.

 

[Jennifer_J]

(he does not have issues with contraception). .

He should–contraception is against Church teaching. I hope you and he and your priest have discussed this. This can become an issue, esp if, in the future, he recognizes the truth of Church teaching.

Mixed marriages can work, but it can be very difficult and it can confuse the children, contrary to what your priest says, yes, children are smart, but the Catholic Church has such a strong stance on many issues–some thay are in direct opposition to other Christian denominations. It can lead to relativism, all religions are equal–which the CC doesn’t believe. It’s difficult enough to raise Catholic children in this society, confusion at home can make it more difficult. just some thoughts for you… Kudos for you both for dealing with this now, though!

 

[kage_ar]

He should–contraception is against Church teaching. I hope you and he and your priest have discussed this. This can become an issue, esp if, in the future, he recognizes the truth of Church teaching.

Agreed.

This is a non-negotiable issue when it comes to Church teaching.

 

[OhioTeacher]

Agreed.

This is a non-negotiable issue when it comes to Church teaching.

I realize this is a church teaching. But that’s the point I’m trying to make. My fiance is Catholic and agrees with most of the Church’s doctrine, but not every single thing. I guess if that puts him in bad standing so to speak, so be it. It’s not something I’m pressuring him on…he felt that way long before I met him.

By no means do I think that raising our kids is going to be easy. We are well aware of that and are thankful for a supportive priest in our local parish. I know that my fiance is different and maybe not as “extreme” as some Catholics, but he has agreed to foster a mutual respect in our household as far as religion is concerned (while still raising the children Catholic). As an elementary school teacher who teaches a variety of biracial, mixed religion students (I teach in a very diverse area) I see a large number of well-educated, well-adjusted students come through my classroom. They can tell me the ins and outs of both religions while at the same time being able to identify themselves with one particular religion. I appreciate the Kudos Jennifer! We know two other “mixed religion” couples who each have two children (one Catholic in each couple) and neither couple has even attempted to talk about this topic yet. We’re working on it…I have no doubt we’ll get it worked out.

 

[BostonMyrtleBea]

Hello and welcome!
You are correct that in one sense there are as many possible answers as there are schools and parishes. But from my (Massachusetts) experience: Our younger daughter recently completed 13 years in parochial school (K through senior in high school; we were fortunate to be only a half-hour from a remaining Catholic grammar school, to which we drove her every day.)

Maybe 20% of the grammar school enrollment was non-Catholic. It is an urban school (not inner-city, however), and a number of the community’s Protestant ministers, especially Baptist, sent their children to the school because of the sad state of local public schools. There was nothing but respect taught regarding other faiths or other Christians. Certainly nothing along the lines of “only Catholics are saved.” There are probably some on these boards who would have found fault with that approach, actually. I believe that school’s policy was that non-Catholic children went to Mass when there was a school Mass, but no active participation was required; it was intended as a lesson in mutual understanding regarding what Catholics REALLY did and believed (there being many misunderstandings about that).

I wish you and your fiance, and your “someday” children, all the best. I hope that other responders are similarly positive.

Agreed… Everyone is welcome. I went to a Catholic school in Mass and there was one girl who wasn’t Catholic. She was not required to do confession, etc… She did have to go to religion class, though, as that was in the curriculum. I think that when we had Mass (first Friday of every month), she didn’t have to go.