Partaking Of The Divine Nature

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Protestant101

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Hello Everyone

I would like to investigate some specifics about the Catholic Eucharist, and partaking of the divine nature.

It is my general understanding of Catholic teachings that they believe that when they partake of the “bread” and the “wine” that it is synomymous with literally partaking of Christ’s nature, and this idea is based on the belief that the bread and the wine literally becomes His literal flesh and His literal blood. If my understanding is not correct, please let me know. I got that understanding from reading the online Catechism.

In summary; Catholics seem to be saying that we partake of the divine nature by participating in their “Eucharist.” Is this the right way to see it? Following this thought; I am also wondering if by chance Catholics teach that the “Eucharist” is the only way to experience partaking of the divine nature? If this is what Catholics do teach then it strikes me as a very odd thing to believe, and I would have a lot more questions that I already do to ask.

The whole “Eucharist” thing of the literal flesh and literal blood of Jesus being constituted in the “species” of the bread and wine sounds so weird, and it is something I think would be interesting to explore from a Biblical perspective.

Can anyone tell me first though what Catholics teach about partaking of the divine nature? How many different ways does the Catholic Church teach that there are for this process?
 
That is one way that we partake of the divine nature, but I don’t think that’s what the scripture is talking about. When we enter the presence of God, we will partake of and share in His divine nature, having the power and attributes that He has, though perhaps to a lesser extent.

It is like when you put a poker in a fire, the poker begins to glow red like the fire - it has partaken of the fire’s nature. However, it has no heat or light of its own apart from the fire. It is the fire, and only the fire, which endows the poker with heat and light. Similarly, we are creatures and always will be. We have no Godhood of our own and never will. But God will reward those who love Him by sharing His nature with us as the fire shares its nature with the poker.

Hope this helps,
Paul
 
You might want to look on this thread. It deals with St. Gregory Palamas, whose main work was on the Essence/Energies of God and partaking of the divine nature/uncreated grace.
 
PaulDupre said:
That is one way that we partake of the divine nature, but I don’t think that’s what the scripture is talking about. When we enter the presence of God, we will partake of and share in His divine nature, having the power and attributes that He has, though perhaps to a lesser extent.

It is like when you put a poker in a fire, the poker begins to glow red like the fire - it has partaken of the fire’s nature. However, it has no heat or light of its own apart from the fire. It is the fire, and only the fire, which endows the poker with heat and light. Similarly, we are creatures and always will be. We have no Godhood of our own and never will. But God will reward those who love Him by sharing His nature with us as the fire shares its nature with the poker.

Hope this helps,
Paul
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Ok; I think you are saying that God “shares His nature with us” at least for Catholics, as they participate in their Eucharist; how else, or, what other specific ways does God share His divine nature with us? If there ways besides the Eucharist that we partake of the divine nature, what then does official catholic teaching tell us about those ways? God must have means of sharing His divine nature, apart from the Eucharist, yet I also wonder, does Catholic teaching say or imply that their Eucharist is the best way?

Is there something about how the divine nature is shared in your Eucharist, that is superior somehow to these other ways that God has designed we should partake of His nature? The way the Eucharist is talked about in the Catechism makes me wonder about this, as well as a host of other questions.
 
What Catholics term ‘sanctifying grace’ is God’s life in us. This is first given to us in Baptism and thereafter through all the sacraments, the others being Confirmation, Eucharist, Matrimony, Holy Orders (ordination as deacon, priest, or bishop), Reconciliation (Confession), and Anointing of the Sick. So the Eucharist is essential since Jesus said unless we eat his flesh and drink his blood we will not have life. But it is not the only way we partake of the divine nature. And all of this outpouring of God’s grace is possible because of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection.

We don’t use the term ‘literally’ when describing the Eucharist. We know that the bread really becomes Jesus’ flesh and the wine becomes his blood. The reality of the bread and wine change into the reality of Jesus who rose from the dead. But the appearance and properties of bread and wine remain. And yet this is Jesus’ and is no longer bread and wine. The term we use is transubstantiation. It means that the substance of bread and wine is changed into the substance of Jesus’ body and blood.

At mass, Jesus’ sacrifice is made present for us. Here is Jesus who died for us on Calvary and who stands before the Father in heaven like a lamb who is slain (in the language of the book of Revelation). It is as though we have come to the foot of the cross. An so we can receive the grace that comes to us because of Jesus’ perfect sacrifice of his life to the Father. This is why joining in the mass and receiving the Eucharist is such a central way for us to partake of the divine nature.

I hope this gives you some added insight into Catholics and the Eucharist.
 
Protestant101 said:
Can anyone tell me first though what Catholics teach about partaking of the divine nature? How many different ways does the Catholic Church teach that there are for this process?
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Baptism and Confirmation are other ways. In baptism we enter into the New Covenant (family relationship) with God, and become His spiritual children.

In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not administered by hand, by stripping off the carnal body, with the circumcision of Christ. You were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. (Col 2:11-12)

Confirmation completes the process of initiation (baptism) into the Christian community, and matures the soul for the work ahead.

Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them and they received the holy Spirit. (Acts 8:14-17)
 
Grace is the key because it gives us the capacity to do meritorious works, since it is “no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.” (Gal 2:20) As well, Christ shares the work of salvation with us (cf. 1 Pt 4:13). No doubt there are many other ways Christ shares the divine nature with us, but it starts with grace. No doubt you can find many writings of the saints on this matter.
 
Protestant101 said:
Ok; I think you are saying that God “shares His nature with us” at least for Catholics, as they participate in their Eucharist; how else, or, what other specific ways does God share His divine nature with us? If there ways besides the Eucharist that we partake of the divine nature, what then does official catholic teaching tell us about those ways? God must have means of sharing His divine nature, apart from the Eucharist, yet I also wonder, does Catholic teaching say or imply that their Eucharist is the best way?
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Go back and read my entire post instead of just the first paragraph. I was talking about partaking of the divine nature when we get to heaven.
 
Protestant101 said:
…Can anyone tell me first though what Catholics teach about partaking of the divine nature? How many different ways does the Catholic Church teach that there are for this process?
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Western Catholics often somewhat object to the concept of Theosis, but many Eastern Catholics (those under the Pope) and Orthodox Catholics would be generally familiar. It is a living process, possible now and into eternity.

I think you will find a study of Theosis helpful. Just don’t expect most Latin rite (Western) Catholics to be fully conversant in it, or even in agreement with it as presented here.
 
PaulDupre said:
Go back and read my entire post instead of just the first paragraph. I was talking about partaking of the divine nature when we get to heaven.
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Thankyou; I went back and read what you said to. The exact phrase you used was “when we enter the presence of God.” I didn’t know you were referring to “when we get to heaven;” that wasn’t clear to me in your post; but also the Bible doesnt tell us we have to wait till then to be in God’s presence.

I think Catholics are trying to say that the Eucharist is a way to “partake of His nature” meaning God’s, but that whole doctrine really sounds strange. I don’t see the Bible as supporting that idea; it does not say that we need to do a Communion Service, or Mass to partake of God’s nature.
 
Hesychios said:
Western Catholics often somewhat object to the concept of Theosis, but many Eastern Catholics (those under the Pope) and Orthodox Catholics would be generally familiar. It is a living process, possible now and into eternity.

I think you will find a study of Theosis helpful. Just don’t expect most Latin rite (Western) Catholics to be fully conversant in it, or even in agreement with it as presented here.
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Cardinal George of Chicago, a Latin, was talking about theosis on Relevant Radio, rather accurately, with approval.
 
Protestant101 said:
I think Catholics are trying to say that the Eucharist is a way to “partake of His nature” meaning God’s, but that whole doctrine really sounds strange. I don’t see the Bible as supporting that idea; it does not say that we need to do a Communion Service, or Mass to partake of God’s nature.
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Yes, the entire historical Church: Orthodox and Catholic recognize that partaking of the Eucharist is partaking of the Divine Nature because the Eucharist is the very Body and Blood of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

As far as the Bible supporting it, read John 6 in its entirety.

It begins with the multiplication of the loaves and fishes to feed thousands - this shows that when we partake of the Eucharist his Body and Blood never “run out” so to speak.

Then it talks about the OT manna from Heaven and Jesus is very clear that He is that fulfillment.

Then Jesus very firmly and repeatively states that anyone who eats His Flesh and drinks His Blood will have eternal life and also states that if you do not eat His Flesh and drink His Blood you do not have Life in you.

Guess what happens next - those who had followed him and believed in Him up to this point said amongst themselves: “How can this be? How can this man give us His Body to eat?” (Sounds like a bunch of modern day protestants if you ask me)

Jesus repeats what He had been saying - yes, you’ve got to eat My Body and Drink My Blood. side note: this would have been a perfect time to tell them that they were misunderstanding Him, but since they understood Him perfectly, no correction was needed.

Next, the followers of Jesus left Him and you will see that Jesus did not call them back and tell them “hey wait a minute, you misunderstood me” why did He not do this? That’s right, because they understood Him perfectly, but didn’t believe.

After that Jesus turns to his 12 and asks them if they will leave Him too and they said, “No”

Then the very last thing that happens: The Scripture points out for the first time that Judas would betray Jesus - Judas left Jesus in his heart at this very point because of this very doctrine which he could not believe.

Judas does not believe that Eucharist is the Body and Blood of our Lord.
The Disciples DO BELIEVE!

**After careful reading of John 6, you have to decide: Are you a Judas or are you a Disciple? ** :confused: This is a decision to be made on your own and very carefully after prayer with an open heart for the One True God.

Best Wishes,
Christy
 
If you truly are seeking these mysteries out that are of God, and not with a heart of contempt for the body of Jesus Christ on earth which is his Catholic church. I would encourage you to read the following scriptures, this is just an introduction to the mysteries of being partakers of the his divine nature, both now and in heaven. You will not understand them if you do not allow the holy spirit to reveal them, your journey can begin by removing pride and seek God with all your heart,mind soul and body. Other wise becareful what you ask for, for entering into the truths of God and his mysteries, and then not discerning them will bring about a curse as St. Paul states below.

I must inform you, you are going about this journey backwards, for the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been granted to the baptised in Jesus Christ.

Mathew 13:11
4 He said to them in reply, "Because knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been granted to you, but to them it has not been granted.
because ‘they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand.’
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Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says: ‘You shall indeed hear but not understand you shall indeed look but never see.
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Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted, and I heal them.’
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7 "But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear.
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Amen, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

May God be with you as you begin this journey into the mysteries of God. Peace be with you.

2 Peter 1:4
Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.

To understand these mysteries of sharing in the divine nature, one has to suspend his natural logic and believe in the finger of God touching humanity, as witnessed by many when Jesus walked the earth healing, casting out demons, raising the dead. This work continues today in his Catholic church.

Luke 11:20
But if it is by the finger of God that (I) drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

To enter into these mysteries, are for those who are a people set apart for God, Catholics are considered “Sacramental people.” Which are people of the Spirit.

1Corinthians 2:12
We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God.
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And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms. 7
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**Now the natural person 8 does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually. **
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The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgment 9 by anyone.
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For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Jesus onced told us “do not cast our pearls among swine, lest they trample them” so if your still seeking God’s love with a true heart, the treasure will be opened to you, to receive these gifts from God. The Catholic church does not own these mysteries, The Catholic church is just the good steward of these mysteries, and gives them to anyone God calls.

The Catholic church are the stewards of these mysteries, handed down to us by Jesus and the apostles themselves, that is why you hear Catholics claim the importance of sacred scripture and sacred Tradtion:

1 Corinthians
Chapter 4
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Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
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Now it is of course required of stewards that they be found trustworthy.

2 Thesolonians 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

1Corinthians 11:23
11 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
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and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
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In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
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For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
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**Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12
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A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
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For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself. **

Colossians 1:24
13 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking 14 in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church,
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of which I am a minister in accordance with God’s stewardship given to me to bring to completion for you the word of God,
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the mystery hidden from ages and from generations past. But now it has been manifested to his holy ones,
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to whom God chose to make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; it is Christ in you, the hope for glory.
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It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

These are just a few scriptures for you to meditate upon. After you read this I hope you become interested in knowing more about entering the mysteries and what each one is and partaking of the divine nature?
 
Thanks to all the replies so far. I will consider how to reply as soon as time permits.

I just wanted to post the following for now from another thread to illustrate the kinds of things I am interested in exploring. Later; I will get back here with my questions - and likely a challenge or two…👍

Here is the quote:
Originally Posted by mercygate forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4024322#post4024322
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1/ This is probably a bigger and subtler question than I am equipped to answer. But at the very least we Catholics understand that Christ comes to us and speaks to us in many ways.

2/ But we know from Scripture and from the actual life of the early Church that the Eucharist is the privileged place of Communion with Him. The Eucharistic Presence is substantial and qualitatively different from other ways in which His grace functions in our lives.

3/ In the Eucharist we are brought into Communion with Him, with the Father, by the Holy Spirit; we are also brought into substantial Communion with the whole Church in Heaven and on Earth. We are constituted as the Body of Christ by his Body and Blood.

4/ Where non-Catholics trip is that they recognize all the other ways in which Christ appears in our lives – particularly through Scripture – and they assume that because this is so GREAT that nothing could possibly be “better.”

5/ There is also a rather prevalent idea among protestants that “spiritual” means “symbolic” or “not real.” Catholic theology accepts that “God is substantially Spirit” (as St. John so pithily states); therefore Spirit is “more” real than physics and trans-substance-iation is definitely a privileged contact point of the soul with its Redeemer.
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I would like to ask for now that if anyone can tell me where in the Catechism each of the 5 paragraphs numbered above could be found, or where in other official Catholic writings it can be found; I would like to see such references, please. Thanks for those who participate here. I do appreciate it. I have some specific questions/concerns re the above 5 paragraphs; but I am out of time for now. 🙂
 
Protestant101 said:
I would like to ask for now that if anyone can tell me where in the Catechism each of the 5 paragraphs numbered above could be found
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For the teachings on the Eucharist, including the communing nature, the nature of the Eucharist’s “presence”, Transubstantiation, etc… there are sub-heads under Eucharist for all of these topics.

For the nature of God as pure spirit see CCC# 370, 395.

If I have time tomorrow, I’ll look up some others, but the search feature of the Catechism works pretty well.
 
MarcoPolo said:
For the teachings on the Eucharist, including the communing nature, the nature of the Eucharist’s “presence”, Transubstantiation, etc… there are sub-heads under Eucharist for all of these topics.

For the nature of God as pure spirit see CCC# 370, 395.

If I have time tomorrow, I’ll look up some others, but the search feature of the Catechism works pretty well.
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Thanks, I didn’t know that site existed; it seems easier to use than the Catechism at the Vatican Site because of the search feature. 🙂
 
Protestant101 said:
Thanks to all the replies so far. I will consider how to reply as soon as time permits.

I just wanted to post the following for now from another thread to illustrate the kinds of things I am interested in exploring.
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Did you consider the Theosis material at all?
 
Hesychios said:
Did you consider the Theosis material at all?
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Yes, thankyou. I have bookmarked the links but with me it can take a week or so to review something like this enough to explore it more. Be patient. I will return.

I will say though that I find the whole notion Catholics have about the bread and the wine being “changed” into literal flesh and blood to be gruesome and repulsive. It doesn’t seem like that’s what the Bible means in John chapter 6 at all.

Also; It seems like some believe how that the Eucharist is the best way, but not the only way to partake of the divine nature. Is there any official Catholic teaching on that point?
 
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