Participating in a wedding

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My raised protestant/meh brother is marrying a secular/meh Indian (Asian) woman who was previously in a marriage with another guy in what I believe was a Hindu context.

She’s a sweet lady with two little girls, but the meat of the question is how the Church (and laity) handle these things concerning other faiths or the lack thereof. We have a different understanding of marriage then the rest of the world. Naturally, he just asked me to be in the wedding, I’m assuming as either the best man or some other person.

Next steps?
 
TK421 said:
My raised protestant/meh brother is marrying a secular/meh Indian (Asian) woman who was previously in a marriage with another guy in what I believe was a Hindu context.

She’s a sweet lady with two little girls, but the meat of the question is how the Church (and laity) handle these things concerning other faiths or the lack thereof. We have a different understanding of marriage then the rest of the world. Naturally, he just asked me to be in the wedding, I’m assuming as either the best man or some other person.

Next steps?
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Hi!
…I may not be the best respondent since I am biased (Sacramental Marriage); my understanding is that most (if not all) non-Catholic Christians buy into the divorce and remarry (as often as you want) rule; they do not believe in the Sacrament of Matrimony (they reject Christ’s Command completely–but of course their claims is that there’s no such Sacrament); so here’s the pickle: do you believe that they are wrong in contracting this marriage or better yet, would they believe that your participation in their wedding would mean that the Catholic Church approves of their vows?

Conversely, if non-believers would ask you to partake of their civil wedding, would you have a problem with it–would they think that by your assent the Catholic Church is signaling her acceptance of a marriage outside of the Church?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Don’t run the risk of ruining your relationship with your brother and his soon to be wife or give them a reason to resent Catholicism. Attend the wedding. Be in the wedding party if he asks you and it’s not a religious ceremony. Be a good example and a loving brother. That may be the seed for his eventual conversion.
 
jcrichton said:
Hi!
…I may not be the best respondent since I am biased (Sacramental Marriage); my understanding is that most (if not all) non-Catholic Christians buy into the divorce and remarry (as often as you want) rule; they do not believe in the Sacrament of Matrimony (they reject Christ’s Command completely–but of course their claims is that there’s no such Sacrament); so here’s the pickle: do you believe that they are wrong in contracting this marriage or better yet, would they believe that your participation in their wedding would mean that the Catholic Church approves of their vows?

Conversely, if non-believers would ask you to partake of their civil wedding, would you have a problem with it–would they think that by your assent the Catholic Church is signaling her acceptance of a marriage outside of the Church?

Maran atha!

Angel
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Well, I have no idea.

The Church doesn’t really disapprove/approve of non-Catholic weddings. i.e. if a Jewish or Muslim or protestant wedding occurs, it isn’t as though they are sinning - they very well might be doing something that is virtuous in of itself - but generally speaking it wouldn’t be a sacramental marriage. I think ‘natural marriage’ is the term used. So whether or not the Church (or really, Christ) approves or disapproves of the wedding is an unknown. The idea of explicitly not attending weddings that aren’t Catholic seem strange to me and I’m not aware of this being practiced. The only caveat that made me slightly uncomfortable is that the woman was previously married and then divorced, though in something far different from a sacramental Catholic context, so I felt the need to ask. They were also already cohabiting, etc… I could easily make a small list of sins if I wanted to of the things they were doing that they ideally ought not to have been doing, although I’m not in the business of condemning. They are semi-religious/semi-‘meh’ people and they therefore behave as one would expect them to behave. In one respect, yeah, they’re obviously not devout Catholics or AFAIK devout Christians and the Catholic theology on marriage is alien to both of them. In another respect, I could also see them transitioning into a marriage as an objectively good thing relative to where they were. A stable, permanent position in life can put a person into a better disposition to adopt more culture of life/family oriented values and ultimately lead through degrees of inner conversion.

I just wasn’t entirely sure if I was passing a red line or something. My intuitive reaction as any brother was of course to send a congratulations.
 
TK421 said:
Well, I have no idea.

The Church doesn’t really disapprove/approve of non-Catholic weddings. i.e. if a Jewish or Muslim or protestant wedding occurs, it isn’t as though they are sinning - they very well might be doing something that is virtuous in of itself - but generally speaking it wouldn’t be a sacramental marriage. I think ‘natural marriage’ is the term used. So whether or not the Church (or really, Christ) approves or disapproves of the wedding is an unknown. The idea of explicitly not attending weddings that aren’t Catholic seem strange to me and I’m not aware of this being practiced. The only caveat that made me slightly uncomfortable is that the woman was previously married and then divorced, though in something far different from a sacramental Catholic context, so I felt the need to ask. They were also already cohabiting, etc… I could easily make a small list of sins if I wanted to of the things they were doing that they ideally ought not to have been doing, although I’m not in the business of condemning. They are semi-religious/semi-‘meh’ people and they therefore behave as one would expect them to behave. In one respect, yeah, they’re obviously not devout Catholics or AFAIK devout Christians and the Catholic theology on marriage is alien to both of them. In another respect, I could also see them transitioning into a marriage as an objectively good thing relative to where they were. A stable, permanent position in life can put a person into a better disposition to adopt more culture of life/family oriented values and ultimately lead through degrees of inner conversion.

I just wasn’t entirely sure if I was passing a red line or something. My intuitive reaction as any brother was of course to send a congratulations.
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I think that the only religion that does not call her members to divorce (shun) family is the Catholic religion. That’s why I attempted to address the issue of “perception.” If you have a problem (if it bothers your conscience) then do not attend; if your brother would believe that by attending (as a Catholic) the Church is supportive of non-Sacramental unions, don’t attend or clarify that you do not represent such ideals.

However, it sounds very much as though they are taking a step towards a higher morality (formal union) and that they are not aware of Church Doctrine–I equate that to a civil union (forming a monogamous relationship) which is preferable to cohabitation., and as you’ve pointed out an amicable situation can lead to conversion as issues may arise where you can bring them to the knowledge of the Faith.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
TK421 said:
My raised protestant/meh brother is marrying a secular/meh Indian (Asian) woman who was previously in a marriage with another guy in what I believe was a Hindu context.

She’s a sweet lady with two little girls, but the meat of the question is how the Church (and laity) handle these things concerning other faiths or the lack thereof. We have a different understanding of marriage then the rest of the world. Naturally, he just asked me to be in the wedding, I’m assuming as either the best man or some other person.

Next steps?
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Advise him to talk to a Catholic Priest about the situation. Pray for him and her and the Priest that will be guiding him, not what we want but what God Wants and the Priest will help him he will explain what he needs to know prior to marriage. don’t tell him that just tell him that he needs to talk to a Priest to guide him.
 
There’s a pretty comprehensive article on this question on this site. It’s written by Michelle Arnold who is quite orthodox. I would say that her prescriptions are pretty hard line and most Catholics I know would attend more ceremonies than she allows.

So, even though your brother and his wife aren’t Catholics, because of previous marriage, there are impediments to the marriage. That makes these two points most relevant to you:
The Church does not explicitly forbid Catholics from attending presumptively invalid marriages. Catholics must use their own prudential judgment in making the decision, keeping in mind the necessity to uphold the Catholic understanding of the sanctity of marriage. To make such a judgment, you might ask yourself if you believe the couple is doing the best that they can to act honorably and according to the truth that they have. For example, you might decide to attend the presumptively invalid wedding of a couple who is expecting a child (thereby attempting to provide a family for that child); but you might decline to attend the presumptively invalid wedding of a couple you know to have engaged in adultery (thereby destroying previous marriages and families).
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While there may be just reason to attend a particular wedding that will be presumptively invalid, I cannot recommend participating as a member of the wedding party in such weddings. There is a difference between attending as a non-participating guest and actively involving yourself in the wedding.
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I think you can clearly see that they are doing their best according to their own truths and so you have no reason not to attend. Michelle Arnold suggests you may have reason to decline to participate in the wedding party. That part is up to you.

Note that the Church does not give hard line prohibitions here. She says she cannot advise it, but you are not forbidden from doing it. It is a matter for your own conscious.

My advice (admittedly as a non-Catholic) would be this: if you love your brother and you can make the day about him, do it. Your relationship with him will last for the rest of your lives and making him feel you reject him doesn’t do anything to help either of your or bring him closer to God. If anything, it will drive him away.

However, you know yourself better than any of us. If you agree to be in his party, but are going to be unhappy the whole time, making occasional remarks about how this marriage isn’t valid, that they should be talking to priest, whatever, then tell him up front that while you love him, you can’t do this, decline to be the wedding party, and go as a guest. He deserves to have a wedding party that supports him completely.
 
Talk with / visit with a priest on your diocesan marriage tribunal.

They have seen everything.

[Ask your pastor for a name and phone number.]
 
WilliamE said:
As a non-Catholic, why would he be interested in what Catholic priest has to say about it?
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I wondered about this too.

OP, if your brother is not and never was Catholic, the Catholic rules for marriage do not apply. If you have reservations about being in the wedding, you need to talk to your priest about your issues.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
I wondered about this too.

OP, if your brother is not and never was Catholic, the Catholic rules for marriage do not apply. If you have reservations about being in the wedding, you need to talk to your priest about your issues.
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…they don’t apply as far as needing to get married in a Catholic church, but the situation is still considered adultery if the first marriage was not declared null or if the bride is not a widow (and it probably wasn’t ever investigated, because the parties aren’t Catholic.) Not that anyone in the family besides the OP cares, but no, Catholics would say that’s wrong for everybody, not just Catholics.

There’s a possibility for a similar situation to arise with my sister, who’s living with her divorced boyfriend. If they get engaged I have no idea what we’ll do as far as the wedding. I don’t approve of their relationship for lots of reasons, but that’s among them. I do know I won’t agree to be in the wedding party even if we do attend, nor will I permit my children to be. But I live across the country and can politely decline too much involvement or even attending at all with the excuse of practicality. I know better than to suggest a religious or moral objection - my sister thinks religious people are weird and creepy. :rolleyes: But she’s also the most likely to throw down with crazy drama and be bridezilla-ish about the whole thing, so who knows?

My personal standard, I think, is to attend if it’s family but decline active participation, and decline attending for everybody else, but always to pray for everyone involved.
 
@carefullytread:

I don’t have any personal reservations about going to the wedding, and I will be in good spirits while attending both the ceremony and the party. I see the decision - in so far as the limits of where they currently are spiritually, mentally, and psychologically - as an objective moral improvement and therefore something that merits celebration. Although there are circumstances in life that might demand or strongly point towards non-participation, I’m 98% certain it would be counterproductive in this instance. My brother & fiance aren’t members of the Faith in the first place (and both of their family backgrounds have zero connection to the Catholic Church - there’s me, but I hoped on the boat in '14 and live over a thousand miles away on a Native reservation) and I’m positive beyond a reasonable doubt I would boggle & confuse & upset them if I made some arcane speech about why I supposedly can’t attend. Bridges would be burnt, hearts would be hardened, etc.

That being said, I’m new’ish to the Church and I know simply following human intuition is not completely reliable, so I was curious if there were any hardline prohibitions towards this sort of thing for me to submit to. It seems the answer is no.
 
Wondering it folk have taken on board the difference between attending the wedding and eg being best man?

Seems to m that that distinction is what is worrying you?
 
TK421 said:
I don’t have any personal reservations about going to the wedding, and I will be in good spirits while attending both the ceremony and the party. I see the decision - in so far as the limits of where they currently are spiritually, mentally, and psychologically - as an objective moral improvement and therefore something that merits celebration.
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That’s great. I wish your family the best and pray that they have a happy and lasting marriage.
 
Rosebud77 said:
Wondering it folk have taken on board the difference between attending the wedding and eg being best man?

Seems to m that that distinction is what is worrying you?
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The only thing that concerned me is the Hindu/secular woman being civilly divorced and remarrying. In a Catholic context of sacramental marriage this would need to be addressed before proceeding.

I don’t personally see a distinction beyond the superficial in whether I’m the best man or whether I’m sitting in a chair clapping. In my mind it’s either appropriate to participate or it isn’t.
 
I personally have wondered about these things, but have not yet had to address them in my own family.
One thought I have, is that it may have been useful / helpful “back in the day”, (say, pre-1960s?) when an entire family (parents, aunts uncles, cousins etc.) may have declined to attend a wedding that is iffy. However, when you are the only one who is taking a hard line, it just makes you out to be the jerk. Just one person (relative) is not enough to supply the social pressure that is the point of declining the invitation to go, I think.
Maybe better to keep a good relationship, even if you do not participate as a member of the wedding party?
Just my 2 cents.
 
Eliazer said:
Advise him to talk to a Catholic Priest about the situation. Pray for him and her and the Priest that will be guiding him, not what we want but what God Wants and the Priest will help him he will explain what he needs to know prior to marriage. don’t tell him that just tell him that he needs to talk to a Priest to guide him.
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Since he is Protestant, there would be no reason for him to talk to a priest.
 
I read that it’s OK to attend because of the potential of non-Catholic marriages like this always have the potential of becoming sacramental.

The chances of this happening is zero if you don’t go. If you just have to stand there to participate it’s fine as opposed to being obligated to pray to Zeus or similar.

Ask what you need to do, and go.
 
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