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pacislander4lif
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LOL… Amen
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pacislander4lif
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OTM, you would do well to remove the beam in your own eye first, before seeing to remove the speck in MsS’ eye. I refer you to Hebrews 8, which by the way quotes your passage in the OT. Pay close attention to verse 6 and 13:Since He is already in the Catholic church, and that is the two alternatives you give me, He would go to the Jewish synagogue (there is not temple at this time).
And as to the old Covenants, would you suggest that “I will be your God, and you will be My people” is no longer in force for Catholics? Think, before you answer; are we not only His people, but also His Body?
1Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, 2a minister in the holy places, in the true tent[a] that the Lord set up, not man. 3For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer. 4Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. 5They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.” 6But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. **7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.
8For he finds fault with them when he says:[c]
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah,
9not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt.
For they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
11And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.”
13In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
-Laurence**
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pacislander4lif
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I dont know which Catechism passage you are referring to but the Jews MUST convert if they want Salvation, unless invincibly ignorant. Their Covenant has become null and void.
-Laurence
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pacislander4lif
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Let me hlp you out with this imagery in Scripture:
Romans 11:16-24:
16If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root[a] of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
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pacislander4lif
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Read Romans 11:26-24
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pacislander4lif
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If all else fails, call them “anti-Semites”… But, that’s ok, you redeem yourself by saying “I hope I am wrong”… Give me a break… The Jews rejected the Messiah and they have been cut off from the tree. If they choose to be re-grafted onto the tree, then they can, verse 24.
-Laurence
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pacislander4lif
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The holocaust was done by atheists, not believers in the Gospel. Stop trying to make this into anti-Semitism. It isnt. The Catechism also says that those who having been presented the Gospel, and reject Jesus and the Church, cannot be saved. The Jews still have an opportunity, all people do, Jews, Muslims, pagans, even cafeteria Catholics… All they have to do is freely accept Jesus Christ. It is heresy to believe that the Jews can be saved in their own Covenant; that covenant has been superceded.
-Laurence
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MrS
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well said pacislander4lif… welcome home
I also noticed that the thread first started over one year ago and mentioned Robert Sungenis.
How ironic that a chaplain at a “Catholic” College…Ave Maria University… conducted a “Catholic Seder Meal” this year, and was questioned on it by a Dr. Suter…
the results are here:
catholicintl.com/book-recomendation/AMU.pdf
and here:
catholicintl.com/book-recomendation/AMSS.pdf
Please read them through… very interesting observations.
I see more reason to do things Catholic during Holy Week and beyond… not doing things Catholic-version-of-Jewish.
If you want to do something Jewish, do it. Don’t alter it in the hopes of “making it Catholic”.
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Valke2
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why would it be wrong? THe story of Exodus is wrong?
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Valke2
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Really? Is Christanity the same today that it was in the first century CE?
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Valke2
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Is this what the Church believes? Judaism believes that anyone can have a share in the world to come. Does the Church now teach that every Jew that does not accept Jesus as God is cut off from salvation? Your current pope stated, when he was Cardinal, that the Jews are not excluded from salvation. (page 151 of “God and the World”).
“God has not cast off his people”.
Eugene Fisher of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops:
"We don’t need to work or pray for the conversion of Jews to Christianity. God already has the salvation of the Jews figured out, and they accepted it on Sinai, so they are OK. Jews are already with the Father. We do not have a mission to the Jews, but only a mission with the Jews to the world. The Catholic Church will never again sanction an organization devoted to the conversion of Jews. That is over, on doctrinal, biblical and pastoral grounds.”
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chosen_people
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Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. However any honest person must realize that a religion that teaches that if the Jews do not not believe what you do they are cursed and damned, inherently lays the groundwork for antisemitism. Judaism is “heresy” ergo Jews are “heretics”. Incidentally, Hitler was a Catholic. His speeches contain Catholic scriptual references. He was especially fond of the scene where Yehoshua bar Yosef drives “the moneylenders” from the temple. His edicts against the Jews including expulsions, ghettoes and stripping the Jews of their legal and civil rights were merely the reinstitution of Papal Church edicts against the Jews such as those inforce during the reign of Pius IX.
There is only one acceptable reason for a Catholic to attend a Jewish seder and that is in order to learn about another religion and to foster mutual understanding and tolerance. All such good people will always be welcome.
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MrS
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Agreed.
However, this thread also addresses the event referred to as a “Catholic Seder Meal”, or a “Christian Seder Meal”.
On the surface it may seem okay, or even interesting… but some past Church Doctors seem to disagree as found in the links posted a few posts back.
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