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Betterave
Guest
You again demonstrate your complete ignorance of the fundamentals of Catholic thought.
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tonyrey
Guest
I believe one of the main causes of atheism is all the propaganda about evolution which gives the impression that we are merely “naked apes”. That is hardly a sound reason to abandon all one’s beliefs in truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love! The teaching and example of Jesus shine by their own light…
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
How would* you** bring an atheist around? *
This question was asked in post # 866. Did I miss your answer?
This question was asked in post # 866. Did I miss your answer?
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kbachler
Guest
Actually, reason is not what get’s the atheist into the mess. It’s actually lack of reason. Someone who reasons, but is unwilling to take the step to believe (either for or against) and so feels only that the answer is unknowable is an agnostic, not an atheist.
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jonfawkes
Guest
No I missed the question. Off the top of my head - I’d say at the heart of it is a mystery, reason and logic won’t get you there. No matter your world view, religious, secular or a combo, you are going to hit the same wall. At some point you say " well it’s a mystery" we push farther and farther into the mystery but we always hit that wall. Faith is a relationship with that mystery. You can’t understand it, you can just experience it. All humans have the drive for the infinite, we call it different things. The relationships are different some personal some not, don’t get caught up in the trappings and realize you are already on the path. (my personal feeling that is why atheists are obsessed with religion, they know this but they just get caught up in the trappings because of logic) Religion is a method not an answer.
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kbachler
Guest
Greatly paaphrasing Hegel, self awareness comes from facing ones own mortality (shades of Eden! and it ony took us a few thousand years to reason that out.) But the point to address your question is - that form of self-awareness may “bring an atheist around”.
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tonyrey
Guest
Religion is an answer which gives us a method! As you point out, faith is a relationship with the mystery at the heart of reality. I use the word “heart” advisedly because only love can penetrate that mystery. If any religion or other interpretation of reality omits the fact of love it is necessarily incomplete and unfulfilling. We are back to Pascal’s insight that the heart has its reasons…
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
kbachler
*Greatly paaphrasing Hegel, self awareness comes from facing ones own mortality (shades of Eden! and it ony took us a few thousand years to reason that out.) But the point to address your question is - that form of self-awareness may “bring an atheist around”. *
That is why Pascal says elsewhere, “Live as though you have eight hour left to live.” Pensees # 203
In such a life your mind and heart get wonderfully focused on what is most important … whether or not you have a soul and what’s going to happen to it after it leaves your body.
*Greatly paaphrasing Hegel, self awareness comes from facing ones own mortality (shades of Eden! and it ony took us a few thousand years to reason that out.) But the point to address your question is - that form of self-awareness may “bring an atheist around”. *
That is why Pascal says elsewhere, “Live as though you have eight hour left to live.” Pensees # 203
In such a life your mind and heart get wonderfully focused on what is most important … whether or not you have a soul and what’s going to happen to it after it leaves your body.
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tonyrey
Guest
Indeed! Some one remarked that the prospect of death - perhaps being hanged next morning - concentrates the mind wonderfully…
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tonyrey
Guest
Sorry, Charlie! You anticipated me by one minute.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
tonyrey
Sorry, Charlie! You anticipated me by one minute.
Great minds think alike!
Sorry, Charlie! You anticipated me by one minute.
Great minds think alike!
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jonfawkes
Guest
Tell it to Christopher Hitchens
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
I don’t think Hitchens has to be told anything. He is facing his own “eight hours to live,” and if he follows the examples set by the illustrious atheists Jean Paul Sartre and Antony Flew, who took their cue from Pascal, he will get rightly focused on what really matters … the miserable fate of his immortal atheist soul.
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
Pascal stated the ongoing theme of Pensees in two sentences. “If man is not made for God, why is he only happy in God? If man is made for God, why is he so opposed to God?” It is the second question that Pascal believed every atheist must answer for himself.
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kbachler
Guest
Reminds me of a true story from a wonderful 2 semester, 15 credit hour Western religion/ literature/ philosophy class I had where part of the course construction was to show how later religious writers, literary authors, and philosophers built on each other and from those who came before. (How did the Bible influence literature, or Aristotle influence the Bible?).Tell it to Christopher Hitchens
After reading “Phenomenolgy of Spirit” by Hegel and discussing it for days, the instructor (a very, very bright PhD from U of Chi) said “Well, that’s it. Hegel has solved all the major questions of philosophy.”
There were a few moments of silence in the room. Then a fellow student asked “Dr. X, if Hegel solved all the questions, then what about Nietsche? Or why is their Kierkegaard or Sartre?”
The instructor without missing a beat replied, “Oh, they just didn’t like the answers.”
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
“The knowledge of God without that of man’s misery causes pride. The knowledge of man’s misery without that of God causes despair. The knowledge of Jesus Christ constitutes the middle course, because in Him we find both God and our misery.” Blaise Pascal
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jonfawkes
Guest
Interesting - Very Buddhist
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
“If man is not made for God, why is he only happy in God? If man is made for God, why is he so opposed to God?” Blaise Pascal
jonfawkes, would you like to tackle the second question?
jonfawkes, would you like to tackle the second question?
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jonfawkes
Guest
Because they mistake religion for God.“If man is not made for God, why is he only happy in God? If man is made for God, why is he so opposed to God?” Blaise Pascal
jonfawkes, would you like to tackle the second question?
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
jonfawkes
*Because they mistake religion for God. *
That would seem to me a shallow-minded mistake.
jon, as a Catholic, how would you address their mistake?
*Because they mistake religion for God. *
That would seem to me a shallow-minded mistake.
jon, as a Catholic, how would you address their mistake?
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