Pascal's Wager Argument

[jonfawkes]

Yes! A relationship.

One cannot have a relationship/be tied or bound with God without religion.

This is true enough. A nonsequitor to be sure, but true nonetheless.

One cannot have a relationship with God without religion. It’s nonsensical.

It’s like saying I want to be tied to you without being tied to you.

LOL!

If you are using religion as synonym for relationship, your statement is silly, basically “you can’t have a relationship with out having a relationship” It doesn’t speak to the type or nature of the relationship. A man has a relationship to a woman who his ex-wife which is much different than his relationship her when she was a wife.

Rejecting God is a relationship with God. Satan has a relationship with God. The relationship is just not a good one. Friend and Enemy are both relationships.

To bind oneself to someone has a stronger connotation. You have tied yourself to something. Where they go you go. It is a specific relationship, not a relationship in a generic sense.

I’m going to celebrate Bin Laden’s death TTYL8R.

 

[PRmerger]

If you are using religion as synonym for relationship, your statement is silly, basically “you can’t have a relationship with out having a relationship”

Well, then, good. It seems that you have come to see my point that religion does mean relationship.

It doesn’t speak to the type or nature of the relationship. A man has a relationship to a woman who his ex-wife which is much different than his relationship her when she was a wife.

Again, 'tis true, 'tis true. Nonsequitors, but true.

Rejecting God is a relationship with God.

:ehh:

Satan has a relationship with God.

Are you saying Satan is an atheist? uch:

The relationship is just not a good one. Friend and Enemy are both relationships.

True enough, O King of the NonSequitors.

To bind oneself to someone has a stronger connotation. You have tied yourself to something. Where they go you go. It is a specific relationship, not a relationship in a generic sense.

Right.

So, to bring this all around and tie it with a bow, when one rejects religion/faith/Church, one is rejecting God. They are tied together and if one rejects the Church, he rejects Christ.

I’m going to celebrate Bin Laden’s death TTYL8R.

It gives one pause to say we are celebrating the death of someone, but I celebrate right along with you!

 

[jonfawkes]

Well, then, good. It seems that you have come to see my point that religion does mean relationship.

Again, 'tis true, 'tis true. Nonsequitors, but true.

:ehh:

Are you saying Satan is an atheist? uch:

True enough, O King of the NonSequitors.

Right.

So, to bring this all around and tie it with a bow, when one rejects religion/faith/Church, one is rejecting God. They are tied together and if one rejects the Church, he rejects Christ.

It gives one pause to say we are celebrating the death of someone, but I celebrate right along with you!

No, religion does not mean relationship, it is a type of relationship. You don’t say I am in a committed religion with my spouse. They are not synonymous.

You can reject one type of relationship in favor of another and still have a relationship.

 

[PRmerger]

No, religion does not mean relationship, it is a type of relationship. You don’t say I am in a committed religion with my spouse. They are not synonymous.

Fair enough. They are not synonymous.

You can reject one type of relationship in favor of another and still have a relationship.

LOL! Ok.

Your point is atheists and Satan have a relationship with God?

I won’t belabor that, but I think it will cause some amusement among those following this thread.

So, to bring this all around, when you claim that Catholics “worship the Church” you agree that the Church (meaning: the Body of Christ) is the relationship with God and one cannot worship God without it.

So, you worship the Church. Interesting.

 

[jonfawkes]

So, to bring this all around, when you claim that Catholics “worship the Church” you agree that the Church (meaning: the Body of Christ) is the relationship with God and one cannot worship God without it.

I never claimed Catholics worship the Church, only Char II. So no, I do not agree with you.

I am a Catholic and I don’t worship the Church. If the the Church ceases to exist, God will still remain.I worship God not the Church.

The Church facilitates the relationship I have with God. Religion is a tool to help men to serve God, not God.

 

[PRmerger]

I am a Catholic and I don’t worship the Church. If the the Church ceases to exist, God will still remain.I worship God not the Church.

The Church facilitates the relationship I have with God. Religion is a tool to help men to serve God, not God.

Well then we are agreed.

Catholics are not taught to worship the Church.

Religion is the relationship we have with God, and the only way we know who God is and can have a relationship with Him is through the Church.

 

[jonfawkes]

Well then we are agreed.

Catholics are not taught to worship the Church.

Religion is the relationship we have with God, and the only way we know who God is and can have a relationship with Him is through the Church.

No we are not, the Church is not the only way. It is a way. One that is graciously provided to us by God, but not the only way.

 

[PRmerger]

No we are not, the Church is not the only way. It is a way. One that is graciously provided to us by God, but not the only way.

What other way is there to have a relationship with God?

How is it that God has revealed who He is?

 

[jonfawkes]

What other way is there to have a relationship with God?

How is it that God has revealed who He is?

I’ve had this conversation already but a quick answer is He is omnipresent so the whole of creation reveals His nature, also He us infinite so he transcends all that is revealed.

 

[PRmerger]

I’ve had this conversation already but a quick answer is He is omnipresent so the whole of creation reveals His nature, also He us infinite so he transcends all that is revealed.

Heh.

The reason you know this is because RELIGION, specifically Judeo-Christianity, has told you this.

You would not know God were it not for religion. Specifically, Christianity, as revealed to you and me through the Catholic Church.

I rest my case. :curtsey:

 

[Charlemagne_II]

jonfawkes

**I never claimed Catholics worship the Church, only Char II. So no, I do not agree with you. **

I never said Catholics worship the Church. Why are you making up stuff?

What I said is that you can’t get to Christ without going through the Church (assuming you are aware that the Church exists and you have repudiated Christ). We have his own authority for that, and don’t need yours.

“Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my
heavenly Father.” Matthew 10:32-33

 

[jonfawkes]

Heh.

The reason you know this is because RELIGION, specifically Judeo-Christianity, has told you this.

You would not know God were it not for religion. Specifically, Christianity, as revealed to you and me through the Catholic Church.

I rest my case. :curtsey:

All religions, science and most philosophy say we are all part of the same fabric. God us revealed in many ways. God is not proprietary.

 

[jonfawkes]

jonfawkes

**I never claimed Catholics worship the Church, only Char II. So no, I do not agree with you. **

I never said Catholics worship the Church. Why are you making up stuff?

What I said is that you can’t get to Christ without going through the Church (assuming you are aware that the Church exists and you have repudiated Christ). We have his own authority for that, and don’t need yours.

“Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my
heavenly Father.” Matthew 10:32-33

I’ve already have had this conversation with you.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

jonfawkes

**I’ve already have had this conversation with you. **

Ain’t it the truth!

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Due to the length of the thread, it is now closed. Fell free to begin a new thread where this one left off.

God bless

Rachel