Passing of loved one...doesn't make an angel

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Clang74

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I have a family of dear friends who recently lost their father/husband. In typical mourning family fashion, there’s been a little “deification” of him. Little “shrines” of remembrance to him, etc.

My question is to the appropriateness of some common misconceptions…and whether they’re harmless or something to address.

The first and most common, is the assumption that he’s become their own “special angel.” Perhaps a bit harmless, and very common…but very contrary to Catholic beliefs.

The second being “visits” and “messages” from loved ones. My own family has had experiences in this regard. My mother has had brief but uplifting talks with my father, and I briefly glimpsed him (had not been thinking of him…had been preoccupied) on the eve of my divorce hearing. Most of these have been fleeting but accompanied by a feeling of peace.

However, I’m seeing a LOT of reliance on these. Every time they see a bluejay or cardinal, they’re convinced it’s him. They’ve posted a LOT of images to social media (and many of them are truly puzzling) of “signs” they’ve received from him.

While most of these things are likely benign, I fear that they’re treading in dangerous ground. No where does the Church teach that blue jays are messengers, nor do they teach that deceased loved ones become guardian angels (quite the opposite). While often harmless, I fear that these beliefs may lead them along the lines of spiritualism, and being affected by forces not nearly as benign as a deceased loved one.

I’ve had experiences, myself with loved ones…so I know how beneficial and good they can be…so I’m not looking to disprove or eliminate them altogether. I’m unsure as to whether to mention these things (and potentially eliminate the comfort they’re providing), or allow them to hopefully pass. Does this deserve a warning? Do I just keep my thoughts to myself?

Thoughts, experiences, and advice are greatly appreciated.
 
I would leave them alone. It it comforts them, why does it bother you? Why is it okay for you to have “visits” but not them, btw?
 
Clang74 said:
However, I’m seeing a LOT of reliance on these. Every time they see a bluejay or cardinal, they’re convinced it’s him.
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We had a thread almost exactly like this some months ago from someone who was concerned that her relative or close friend, who had lost a child, was seeing all these clouds or birds in the sky or other items that reminded her of her lost daughter and thinking it was a message from daughter.

These people are in grief. Leave them alone. Pray for them.
They are also not your immediate family, and it is not your father or husband who died, so you would be a bit out of place speaking up and telling them how to handle their grief about their own father/ husband.
 
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That is a totally unfounded comment to make, TrueRomanCatholic. There is nothing demonic about their behavior.
 
It is understood by those doing research into the grieving process that “visits” and seeing signs of recently passed loved ones is common and normal. It seems to be one of the ways our brains process the grief and gives self comfort. If this is true (and it certainly happens a lot) then just leave them to their processes.

Often in follow up research when the grieving has run its course, the people often realize that most of these experiences weren’t “real” yet they appreciated having them.

It seems to be a natural occurrence of our brain and an often welcome one even if our more rational side knows it’s not. Don’t worry about it now. If it’s still happening years from now, that may be another story.
 
I do not wish to “take away” their comfort. As I mentioned, it brought great comfort to our family as well.

However, I did not do a good job of communicating something. They’ve been communicating a desire to further this communication…and implying a desire to do so on their terms (when, where, for how long, etc.). THAT is my concern.

Spiritualism.
 
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I’d say to just let them be. They’re grieving. They’re in pain. As for the “deification” part, that’s hardly a problem, and it’s not “deification”. It’s actually quite natural- when my uncles died my mother did not leave a single corner of the house without a small picture of them.

Don’t know about the second part. I’ve lost lots of relatives and friends, but I’ve never been “visited” by them. Dreamt of them, yes. Recieved “messages”? No. They know me better than to try to contact me anyways- they know I’d just shrug it off.

I politely think that your worries are unfounded. Your friends’ family is grieving. Unless they have a history of spiritualism and are in danger of a relapse, there’s nothing to worry about.

With all due respect, I think you should be helping them through difficult times, not trying to see whether you should give them “warnings”. If I’m grieving and my friend does something like this, the friendship ends right there.

Peace.
 
PattyIt, I appreciate your perspective is coming from a non-Catholic, but please understand that we Catholics often believe that “visits” - which many of us have had, sometimes in very dramatic ways - are from God, not from our brains seeing things that aren’t real.

The OP is concerned because the people are thinking they are getting messages in ways that are not the “normal” ways for bereaved Catholics to have “visits” and between that and the angel talk, it is verging on new age.

I know you did not mean to be offensive in any way, but if anyone told me that my 'visits" from deceased husband or mother were my brain making up some unrealistic business to deal with the death, I would politely tell them to buzz off. It is not my brain chemistry at work here. It is God. If he uses my brain chemistry as an instrument fine, but the visits are real.
 
I’ve been assisting in every way I can…sharing experiences, advice, and just listening. However, some of these border on New Age, and I worry. Yesterday they received advice to see if John Edwards has a show coming up, and 20 minutes ago, a family member offered to take them to a medium (all on Facebook).
 
I think you could tell them a medium is not a good idea. I would worry in that case they would be taken advantage of, especially if the medium started asking them for money or donations. Also, mediums are not necessary. You can connect with your loved ones’ world any time you receive Eucharist (which is one reason why I try to do that often) and if God wants you to see your loved one, God will send him or her to see you. It’s up to God though.

Mediums are dangerous.
 
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“Canonize”… That’s a far better descriptor than “deify.” I’ve been fortunate to have replies that have phrased my concerns far better than I originally could. Thanks to all.
 
I certainly meant no offense! I just wanted to point out that, whether from God or grief, it is normal. Though it now sounds like it is going beyond visits from God.

I’ll leave you all to this conversation.
 
No offense taken. This is a tricky topic even for Catholics as it’s technically private revelation and no Catholic is required to believe in it, and some don’t.
 
Deuteronomy : 18 : 10 - Do not let there be found among you one who would purify his son or daughter by leading them through fire, nor one who consults seers, nor one who observes dreams or omens. Do not let there be found among you one who practices the occult,
Deuteronomy : 18 : 11 - nor one who uses spells, nor one who consults demonic spirits, nor a diviner, nor one who seeks the truth from the dead.

This is the first thing that entered my mind when I read this thread. Discerning if an omen is from God or something else is a difficult task but I think consulting a medium is crossing a red line and a slippery slope to the occult.
 
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That cannot be the work of demons. While true the person who died is not an angel, it is completely possible to see signs from loved ones. Like everyone else said, they are grieving people
 
http://religiousdemonology.com/questions.html

Perhaps this is a resource that can help you… if you scroll down to the question “Should I trust information from the dead?”

Adam Blai is a demonologist who works with the diocese of Pittsburg. To paraphrase what he says, souls in purgatory are not permitted to 'talk" to us, unless it is to ask for prayers. Saints in heaven are not permitted to talk directly to us either. If we “see” or are “visited” by the deceased we should pray for them and leave it at that. Dammed souls can visit us and talk to us and do whatever they want, they answers to the devil. And demons can trick us by appearing as our departed loved ones.

My father recently passed and I was being visited by him often, in dreams and at night, sometimes in very disturbing ways. My preist told me essentially the same thing, offer prayers and do not attempt to communicate - there is no way to know who that really is.

I have no idea how you could convey this charitably with this family, but I will pray for them and you.
 
ZemD said:
To paraphrase what he says…Saints in heaven are not permitted to talk directly to us either.
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The idea that “saints in heaven are not permitted to talk directly to us” is directly at odds with Catholic private revelation to many saints who were visited by other saints, including all the Marian apparitions approved by the Vatican, since Mary herself is a saint.

Saints in heaven can certainly communicate with us, with God’s permission only.

In addition, I cannot find this statement about saints on Adam Blai’s website.
Do you have a link to the statement?
 
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If the person who died was a saint, that’s pretty close to an angel, saints are still saints whether we know they are yet if ever “here” or not . But it most definitely could be demons, we have to test things especially the supernatural, for what they are causing “by their fruits” and discernment of the Holy Spirit. Just pray for them and lightly tell them like was mentioned seeing a medium is too far, and most definitely inviting “other spirits” to come see what else you’ll think is angelic or from God.

Hint:. If your loved ones are telling you to offer them sacrifices of chicken blood or baby kittens, or to go dig up there bones and venerate them and get others to as well, you might be dealing with some other spirit then your long lost relative. It could be just their mind, or maybe the devil, or maybe God, help them figure it out with love
 
I think going to the old testament is extreme, I know I’m not about to stand by “do not suffer a witch to live.”. But here’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says(2116),

" All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
 
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