Passive aggresssive anti-Catholicism

[Robot_Maria]

Hi, everyone! This is my fist post in CAF, although I’ve been reading it off and on for a few years. I have a question that’s been similarly answered before by others, but I think my case might be a bit different.

I’m from an area that’s predominately Catholic, so I was never exposed to anti-Catholicism as a child. In fact, I wasn’t even aware it even existed until I caught a whacky tirade on AM radio when I was a teenager. I’m now in my thirties, have four wonderful kids that go to Catholic school, am married to an atheist, and still live in a predominately Catholic area, but a different city from where I grew up.

The issue is with my in-laws, specifically my mother-in-law. She was raised a Southern Baptist but doesn’t practice or follow a religion, and hasn’t for probably about 40 years or so. My father-in-law was raised Catholic but like his wife he seems to be comfortably agnostic and has been his entire adult life. Lately I’ve been getting more and more vibes of animosity from my mother-in-law about my Catholicism. She has A LOT of closet prejudices that she’s always tended to cover up with platitudes of praise in a hand-wringing sort of way. (“Mexicans are so hard-working!” kind of stuff.)

But the romantic pandering to all things minority is starting to fade when it comes to Catholicism. She used to bend over backwards to assure me that Catholics don’t bother her at all. Oh, no no no! Not at all! In fact, her mother once stood up at a prayer group and admonished a Baptist man (a deacon no less!) for saying disparaging things about Catholics. Could she possibly have religious discrimination with a mother that noble? Of course not! I always knew what she was doing. I didn’t discuss religion with her because, well, it obviously caused her distress.

A few weeks ago at a family dinner my brother-in-law jokingly asked if we get a volume discount on tuition (Catholic or not, four kids is a lot this day in age.) I laughed and told him that, yes, in fact we do get a small discount. He and my father-in-law thought that was delightful, but my mother-in-law (who in fairness had had two glasses of wine at that point) just sort of shouted, “They want you to have all these children, but they expect you to pay to go to school!” Flustered and confused, my father-in-law asked what she was talking about. She said, “The Catholic Church! They don’t let them use birth control!” The room fell silent, and my husband just said, “Gee Mom, that’s a great attitude you have…”

Slightly whacky stuff like this has been happening more and more. She once spotted a bible I had hanging around and told me, “Oh, you know… We read the King James Version in my church as a child. I don’t think you guys are allowed to read that one.” I pointed out that that bible was, in fact, the King James Version. (Who in the world would think Catholics aren’t “allowed” to read a non-canonical bible?)

She refuses to go to any church service held by the kids’ school. For every one of our kids’ baptism she made a point for her and my father-in-law to show up right after mass, just in time for the actual Baptism. She once asked for my son to take off his crucifix for a trip to her family’s house. Just weird stuff like that. She also refuses to acknowledge that my husband, her son, is atheist and always has been. She swears up and down that he’s “very spiritual, he just doesn’t like organized religion.” Believe me when I say that there is absolutely positively nothing whatsoever spiritual about my husband. When he pointed out to her that he is most certainly atheist, which really shouldn’t be a surprise considering his personality and that he was raised with no religion whatsoever, she countered with, “Well I just think ‘atheism’ is a very negative word.” I can’t help but wonder if she thinks spirituality, or her romantic interpretation of it, is like spontaneous generation.

I’m not going to force the woman to go to mass. I’m not even going to say anything about it (I never have.) But I can’t help but wonder how she’d feel if I refused to go to a church service held in her hometown. And furthermore, would she actually expect me to refuse to enter a Protestant church? Does she think that’s normal behavior? Rhetorical questions abound!

My mother thinks these stories are entertaining, and I agree that they can be. The NO BIRTH CONTROL story will last me a lifetime. I can’t wait to share that one with my future daughters-in-law. But at the same time I guess I just don’t know how to react to all of this. She’s not so much hurtful, but just good old fashioned wrong. And besides, it’s not like she can shed what’s obviously a deep prejudice she’s held for a long time. Any advice? And are there any people here who are in a similar position of having a family member who may not even realize their own prejudices?

Thanks for reading this entire rant, and I’m glad to finally post at CAF!

 

[EasterJoy]

It is nothing against you that a non-Catholic doesn’t go to Catholic services, even if she is your MIL. Give her freedom of conscience; it won’t hurt the Church and it isn’t a bad example to give to your children. If you don’t go to someone’s gay marriage ceremony, you’ll have set the precedent by your gracious willingness to be tolerant of the consciences, scruples, or even the wrong-headed neglect of others.

I will tell you that there are Catholics who grouse about the cost of a Catholic education, too, and Catholics who grouse about birth control, and those who use birth control in spite of what the Church teaches particularly aim this at Catholics who adhere to Church teachings with regards to birth control. It is like being a scofflaw with the IRS and having someone in the family who actually pays all their taxes. The people who are actually doing what you have told yourself is not realistic to even ask can make one very uncomfortable, and therefore can be very annoying. This is human nature. Seeing your DIL is raising Christians while you yourself raised an atheist can be very annoying.

We should not fail to admonish the sinner when it might do them some good, but otherwise it is better for both ourselves and the pig if we refrain from throwing our pearls before swine. It is a maxim I am fond of repeating: Don’t try to teach a pig to sing, you just frustrate yourself and annoy the pig. Well, don’t get too worked up that your MIL is on a totally different wavelength. If she has some good points, be thankful for that. Give her honor and affection for having raised your DH. If she was difficult for him, well, any landing you walk away from is a good one. If he’s on speaking terms with her, you ought to be pleasant to her, because whatever else she does is small compared to having brought the love of your life and the father of your children into this world. That is enough to win her your willingness to endure the penance of whatever down side there is to that.

 

[Robot_Maria]

It is nothing against you that a non-Catholic doesn’t go to Catholic services, even if she is your MIL. Give her freedom of conscience; it won’t hurt the Church and it isn’t a bad example to give to your children. If you don’t go to someone’s gay marriage ceremony, you’ll have set the precedent by your gracious willingness to be tolerant of the consciences, scruples, or even the wrong-headed neglect of others.

Oh, I’m not expecting her to go to church with us on Sundays or anything like that. But for things like school events, for example grandparents’ day, she makes a point to leave before all the kids in school head to church for the grandparents’ mass. I don’t know, I just find it odd. If a Protestant friend invited me to her child’s baptism I wouldn’t pointedly skip the service or sermon. It just seems needlessly rude.

And I’d like to point out that she really is a lovely woman. Both of my in-laws are wonderful people, really. And I do get your point about it possibly being annoying to have grandchildren who are being raised a religion one is discriminatory against.

 

[CatholicRaven]

Pray for her. That’s my first and most important piece of advice.

I usually expect my husband to handle any difficulties with his mother, and I handle any difficulties with mine. Works for us.

I have found that usually when someone starts out with how “accepting” they are of Catholics, and then later starts making negative comments or showing disrespect regarding Catholicism, that’s actually a* good *sign. It often means they are being challenged in their beliefs about what the Catholic Church really is and really teaches.

Many of us human beings don’t like growth or change, and we tend to resist it–even changes to our perception. I’ve seen some people who really get irked because they think they have been doing all the “right” things, and Catholics are doing all the “wrong” things, but here is a Catholic who is at peace, joyful, solid in her faith… and it can seem somewhat unfair to them, especially if they are struggling with their own faith. That could be what is happening here. Perhaps she sees you living your faith, and it doesn’t look like what she expected, and it’s confusing and frustrating for her.

My suggestion is simply to be charitable to her. You can’t control her behavior, you can only control your response to it. Keep living the faith–usually, you can help convert hearts more through your actions than through your words, especially when it comes to family.

 

[JerryZ]

Hi, everyone! This is my fist post in CAF, although I’ve been reading it off and on for a few years. I have a question that’s been similarly answered before by others, but I think my case might be a bit different.

I’m from an area that’s predominately Catholic, so I was never exposed to anti-Catholicism as a child. In fact, I wasn’t even aware it even existed until I caught a whacky tirade on AM radio when I was a teenager. I’m now in my thirties, have four wonderful kids that go to Catholic school, am married to an atheist, and still live in a predominately Catholic area, but a different city from where I grew up.

The issue is with my in-laws, specifically my mother-in-law. She was raised a Southern Baptist but doesn’t practice or follow a religion, and hasn’t for probably about 40 years or so. My father-in-law was raised Catholic but like his wife he seems to be comfortably agnostic and has been his entire adult life. Lately I’ve been getting more and more vibes of animosity from my mother-in-law about my Catholicism. She has A LOT of closet prejudices that she’s always tended to cover up with platitudes of praise in a hand-wringing sort of way. (“Mexicans are so hard-working!” kind of stuff.)

But the romantic pandering to all things minority is starting to fade when it comes to Catholicism. She used to bend over backwards to assure me that Catholics don’t bother her at all. Oh, no no no! Not at all! In fact, her mother once stood up at a prayer group and admonished a Baptist man (a deacon no less!) for saying disparaging things about Catholics. Could she possibly have religious discrimination with a mother that noble? Of course not! I always knew what she was doing. I didn’t discuss religion with her because, well, it obviously caused her distress.

A few weeks ago at a family dinner my brother-in-law jokingly asked if we get a volume discount on tuition (Catholic or not, four kids is a lot this day in age.) I laughed and told him that, yes, in fact we do get a small discount. He and my father-in-law thought that was delightful, but my mother-in-law (who in fairness had had two glasses of wine at that point) just sort of shouted, “They want you to have all these children, but they expect you to pay to go to school!” Flustered and confused, my father-in-law asked what she was talking about. She said, “The Catholic Church! They don’t let them use birth control!” The room fell silent, and my husband just said, “Gee Mom, that’s a great attitude you have…”

Slightly whacky stuff like this has been happening more and more. She once spotted a bible I had hanging around and told me, “Oh, you know… We read the King James Version in my church as a child. I don’t think you guys are allowed to read that one.” I pointed out that that bible was, in fact, the King James Version. (Who in the world would think Catholics aren’t “allowed” to read a non-canonical bible?)

She refuses to go to any church service held by the kids’ school. For every one of our kids’ baptism she made a point for her and my father-in-law to show up right after mass, just in time for the actual Baptism. She once asked for my son to take off his crucifix for a trip to her family’s house. Just weird stuff like that. She also refuses to acknowledge that my husband, her son, is atheist and always has been. She swears up and down that he’s “very spiritual, he just doesn’t like organized religion.” Believe me when I say that there is absolutely positively nothing whatsoever spiritual about my husband. When he pointed out to her that he is most certainly atheist, which really shouldn’t be a surprise considering his personality and that he was raised with no religion whatsoever, she countered with, “Well I just think ‘atheism’ is a very negative word.” I can’t help but wonder if she thinks spirituality, or her romantic interpretation of it, is like spontaneous generation.

I’m not going to force the woman to go to mass. I’m not even going to say anything about it (I never have.) But I can’t help but wonder how she’d feel if I refused to go to a church service held in her hometown. And furthermore, would she actually expect me to refuse to enter a Protestant church? Does she think that’s normal behavior? Rhetorical questions abound!

My mother thinks these stories are entertaining, and I agree that they can be. The NO BIRTH CONTROL story will last me a lifetime. I can’t wait to share that one with my future daughters-in-law. But at the same time I guess I just don’t know how to react to all of this. She’s not so much hurtful, but just good old fashioned wrong. And besides, it’s not like she can shed what’s obviously a deep prejudice she’s held for a long time. Any advice? And are there any people here who are in a similar position of having a family member who may not even realize their own prejudices?

Thanks for reading this entire rant, and I’m glad to finally post at CAF!

Well Maria, Bienvenida a CAF

I guess that the only thing you can do is pray and ask the Holy Spirit to (Wasn’t Pentecostes Today ) open her heart and your husband’s also. At least you are bringing your children Catholic and that is very important.
Keep up the faith, I’ll pray for you and yours.

Blessed Pentecostes!

 

[Bonnie]

My mother-in-law - a delightful Catholic lady - had one rule about relatives she tried to live by: put as many miles as possible between you and your relatives - in-laws, out-laws, whatever.

We lived 2000 miles apart & got on quite well. We wrote lots of letters. When she died, one of my first thoughts was: who am I going to write letters to? For a long time, every time one of the kids did something cute, I’d be thinking: I’ve got to remember to put that in my next letter…and then I’d remember.

 

[Allegra]

I hate to be the “devil’s advocate”, but I honestly didn’t see anything horribly offensive about what your mother-in-law has said. I wouldn’t expect her to understand the Church’s teaching on NFP as very few people do. (seemingly, even very few Catholics.) The most bothersome thing to me would be asking your son to remove his crucifix. I wouldn’t expect someone who is uncomfortable with the Church to attend Mass either. I know it can be irritating when someone doesn’t understand you but I think it’s important to remember that your mother-in-law isn’t at all out of step with the general population.

And, if it makes you feel better, my mother also claims my younger sister is “very spiritual” even though she is clearly agnostic at the very least and doesn’t give God second thought. It’s a defense mechanism so she doesn’t feel guilty as if my sister’s lack of faith is a result of her parenting. She even claims that being “spiritual” is, in fact, superior that being “religious”. She also claims that the same sister is “street smart”. What that means is that she is a horrible student and couldn’t even register her own car until she was twenty-two. Of course, being “street smart” is preferable to being “book smart”.

 

[Steveabrous]

First of all let me say that I am a convert to Catholicism who lives in a heavily Protestant area, and married to a Protestant woman. My mother-in-law was blantantly anti-catholic when we got married,refused to go to my children’s first communion etc. That caused me to research my faith and counter her accusations. She has lighten up a lot.

As people get older they lose the ability to filter their opinions.

There are differences between Protestants and Catholics that are centuries old. Protestants are inherently anti-catholic or they would be Catholic. The only way to have ensured no prejudice against Catholicism would have been to marry a Catholic from a Catholic family. As is you’ll probably have to just grin and bare it.

 

[Robot_Maria]

Many of us human beings don’t like growth or change, and we tend to resist it–even changes to our perception.

That’s very wise, CatholicRaven. And it holds true for me as well.

I remember my now husband once saying that he’d NEVER walk into a church, he is so much more enlightened than that, sheeple sheeple, yada yada yada… A couple of years later he was happily attending pre Cana, and we married in a Catholic church. His children are being reared Catholic, he knows most of the ins and outs of the Catholic faith, and he thinks it’s wonderful that our oldest is an alter server. I think he views Catholicism like his father does: not a believer, but has a deep appreciation for at least the culture of it.

My husband’s Catholic grandmother, according to the family, was a generally unpleasant woman. She passed away while my husband and I were still dating and I never met her, but there are quite a few stories of how judgmental and a little mean-spirited she was. She had seven grandsons and once announced that she planned to partially support one of them through college because he was her only Catholic grandchild. If that was the mother-in-law my own MIL had to deal with, I guess I can understand her attitude, especially if it was her only real exposure to a practicing Catholic. It would probably just reinforce the negative stereotypes she may have grown up with.

Considering that, I think when she realized that we weren’t just getting married at that Catholic church for the pretty pictures, that I was actually a practicing Catholic and intended to raise my children Catholic (she likely doesn’t know anything about pre-Cana or what it involves and what the Church expects) she may have been concerned or worried that my kids were going to grow up to be stern authoritarians or something. And her husband grew up in New England, pre Vatican II, raised by a career military man. Not to judge unfairly, but I can’t help but imagine people wearing perfectly round spectacles, never smiling, and never drinking beer from a can.

Well Maria, Bienvenida a CAF

I guess that the only thing you can do is pray and ask the Holy Spirit to (Wasn’t Pentecostes Today ) open her heart and your husband’s also. At least you are bringing your children Catholic and that is very important.
Keep up the faith, I’ll pray for you and yours.

Blessed Pentecostes!

Thank you, JerryZ!

My mother-in-law - a delightful Catholic lady - had one rule about relatives she tried to live by: put as many miles as possible between you and your relatives - in-laws, out-laws, whatever.

We lived 2000 miles apart & got on quite well. We wrote lots of letters. When she died, one of my first thoughts was: who am I going to write letters to? For a long time, every time one of the kids did something cute, I’d be thinking: I’ve got to remember to put that in my next letter…and then I’d remember.

That is very touching, Bonnie. I’ll say a prayer for you and your family.

 

[Robot_Maria]

I hate to be the “devil’s advocate”, but I honestly didn’t see anything horribly offensive about what your mother-in-law has said. I wouldn’t expect her to understand the Church’s teaching on NFP as very few people do. (seemingly, even very few Catholics.) The most bothersome thing to me would be asking your son to remove his crucifix. I wouldn’t expect someone who is uncomfortable with the Church to attend Mass either. I know it can be irritating when someone doesn’t understand you but I think it’s important to remember that your mother-in-law isn’t at all out of step with the general population.

I don’t think she’s being all that offensive. Like I wrote, I’d never been exposed to anti-Catholicism before. And I didn’t even know it existed before I was a teenager. I live in Southeast Louisiana, which is overwhelmingly Catholic. And although I’ve known quite a few Protestants growing up, I thought the idea of anti-Catholicism was as dead as the dinosaurs.

I think it just shows how culturally sheltered one can be, despite not being sheltered in a traditional sense.

 

[jimperu]

You now can see the great value of a good Christian upbringing. Your children will remember and be strengthened by your wise decision to send them to a Catholic school and go to Mass every Sunday. I compliment your husband for agreeing to and supporting your efforts to raising your children in Gods love. Stand firm always, for your faith, and teach your children the same, for their souls and yours are at stake. Your mother in law is displaying her upbringing, it is sad, she is uneducated in the faith. Pity and love her, for only an informed conscience can understand the true meaning of the Trinity and Gods ways. Always pray for all those around you, no matter how they choose to live. NEVER give up hope that some day they may come to FIND God. Remember to always, “GIVE and FOREGIVE”. Your a good MOM keep it up…

 

[hsmomforlife]

I think it just shows how culturally sheltered one can be, despite not being sheltered in a traditional sense.

I remember the Sisters telling us in grammar school during the VERY late 1970’s…'just because you live in an area where everyone is Catholic…don’t believe for one minute that the whole world is like that! You have to know your faith. You may move some day!"
:nun2:Sister Helen, Sister Gracita, Sister Jeanine…thank you for your wise words…RIP!!:harp:

 

[EasterJoy]

We have been having on-going issues with my MIL (especially since my FIL passed away). We have offered to pay for our share of joint counseling, we have begged her to at least modify her methods of communication (she is P-A and we are direct). However, some people are just difficult. In my case, hubby and I didn’t want to deal with a mostly shallow, self-absorbed person who takes no pains to understand the difficulties we have raising a son with autism. We just had to stop verbal contact with her. It is sad, but we did what we could.

The other person or persons have to want to change as well.

There are also generational differences. What is now considered passive-aggressive used to be considered by some to be how polite people acted. It was socially forbidden to openly advocate in favor of one’s own needs and wants, it was socially required in some quarters that offers for help be initially denied even though it was fully expected and everyone knew it would eventually be accepted, it was socially required in some quarters that one claim to defer to what everyone else wanted, and so on. The resulting strife was delightfully recounted in C.S. Lewis’ The Screwtape Letters (Letter 26):

*…The grand problem is that of “unselfishness”. Note, once again, the admirable work of our Philological Arm in substituting the negative unselfishness for the Enemy’s positive Charity. Thanks to this you can, from the very outset, teach a man to surrender benefits not that others may be happy in having them but that he may be unselfish in forgoing them. That is a great point gained. Another great help, where the parties concerned are male and female, is the divergence of view about Unselfishness which we have built up between the sexes. A woman means by Unselfishness chiefly taking trouble for others; a man means not giving trouble to others. As a result, a woman who is quite far gone in the Enemy’s service will make a nuisance of herself on a larger scale than any man except those whom Our Father has dominated completely; and, conversely, a man will live long in the Enemy’s camp before he undertakes as much spontaneous work to please others as a quite ordinary woman may do every day. Thus while the woman thinks of doing good offices and the man of respecting other people’s rights, each sex, without any obvious unreason, can and does regard the other as radically selfish…

…When once a sort of official, legal, or nominal Unselfishness has been established as a rule - a rule for the keeping of which their emotional resources have died away and their spiritual resources have not yet grown - the most delightful results follow. In discussing any joint action, it becomes obligatory that A should argue in favour of B’s supposed wishes and against his own, while B does the opposite. It is often impossible to find out either party’s real wishes; with luck, they end by doing something that neither wants, while each feels a glow of self-righteousness and harbours a secret claim to preferential treatment for the unselfishness shown and a secret grudge against the other for the ease with which the sacrifice has been accepted. Later on you can venture on what may be called the Generous Conflict Illusion. This game is best played with more than two players, in a family with grown-up children for example. Something quite trivial, like having tea in the garden, is proposed. One member takes care to make it quite clear (though not in so many words) that he would rather not but is, of course, prepared to do so out of “Unselfishness”. The others instantly withdraw their proposal, ostensibly through their “Unselfishness”, but really because they don’t want to be used as a sort of lay figure on which the first speaker practices petty altruisms. But he is not going to be done out of his debauch of Unselfishness either. He insists on doing “what the others want”. They insist on doing what he wants. Passions are roused. Soon someone is saying “Very well then, I won’t have any tea at all!”, and a real quarrel ensues with bitter resentment on both sides. You see how it is done? If each side had been frankly contending for its own real wish, they would all have kept within the bounds of reason and courtesy; but just because the contention is reversed and each side is fighting the other side’s battle, all the bitterness which really flows from thwarted self-righteousness and obstinacy and the accumulated grudges of the last ten years is concealed from them by the nominal or official “Unselfishness” of what they are doing or, at least, held to be excused by it. Each side is, indeed, quite alive to the cheap quality of the adversary’s Unselfishness and of the false position into which he is trying to force them; but each manages to feel blameless and ill-used itself, with no more dishonesty than comes natural to a human.

A sensible human once said, “If people knew how much ill-feeling Unselfishness occasions, it would not be so often recommended from the pulpit”; and again, “She’s the sort of woman who lives for others - you can always tell the others by their hunted expression”*…

 

[tijeras]

This is how I learned to deal with my mother-in-law:

I forgive her for everything she’s done,
everything she’s doing right now,
and everything she’s going to do.

Accept her as she is, assuming she’ll never improve, and may possibly get worse.

BUT, set your boundaries and try to minimize the damage she may to do your children. Forgive her stupidity, but don’t pander to it and don’t encourage them to either (“No ma’am, Jesus was crucified for us out of His intense love for us and I don’t want my son to ever forget it. The crucifix stays on him. We can go home if you’d prefer.”)

 

[HolyRosaryChild]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please inform your Mother-In-Law that if she is genuinely following Jesus’ Teachings she should be doing so by His Bible and every one of His Commandments and Scriptures which includes “Love Thy Neighbour” which includes “Loving all Family Members unconditionally”.

Otherwise, she is following Religion for the sake of following Religion and not Jesus Teachings.

When you look at your Mother-in-law in conversation bathe her In Jesus Resurrection (His Holy Cross) and during prayer offer up all of your Crosses in relation to your Mother-in-Law asking Jesus and Mother Mary for His Divine Love and Wisdom flowing through you and your Mother-in-Law, bathing you both in His Love and Unity.