Past lives & reincarnation

[Giggly_Giraffe]

How do Christians keep open dialog with those who believe in reincarnation and past lives.

 

[jerry_joseph]

How do Christians keep open dialog with those who believe in reincarnation and past lives.

They are considering poor, blind and black people all as sinners who does not deserves any mercy… As they got sufferings in this life due to sins of past life. If we help them , actually we are doing harm to them, as they cannot escape from sufferings , then they have to suffer in their next birth too. So dont do any charity works.

This is the great advice that christian missionaries got from them, when they came to help poor people.

 

[flower_lady]

Tell them you are a christian and that you believe in Heaven Hell and Purgatory. That is if you are catholic. If they want to have a civilized conversation about it ok, but any long drawn out arguments or debates NO WAY. I have had to get up and walk out of the room on some people because they refuse to stop talking about it and I refuse to hear it.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

First of all we make our position clear from the begining without trying to diminish what we believe, that reincarnation or transmigration of the soul is a belief we consider absolutely false. Included in that is the eternality of the soul as well.

 

[Protos]

How do Christians keep open dialog with those who believe in reincarnation and past lives.

A quote from John Stott may help:

“I believe we are called to the difficult and even painful task of ‘double listening’. That is, we are to listen carefully (although of course with differing degrees of respect) both to the ancient Word and to the modern world, in order to relate the one to the other with a combination of fidelity and sensitivity.” (The contemporary Christian)

I watched a programme a while back where some non Christians were wanting to discuss some questions they had and their views. The pastor gave a solid biblical answer from a Christian perspective but he wasn’t listening to them and they left angry, I had a friend who was reluctant to talk to me about his involvement in spiritualism because he felt I as a Christian would be quick to condemn. Maybe in regards to reincarnation ask questions about their beliefs, why they believe it, show genuine interest and also explain your views.

 

[Rfrmtn_Catholic]

I would say either “You have raised an important concept here” or “That is an important question” depending on whether I was responding to a statement or a question. Then I would say “At one point some of Jesus’ own disciples appear to have asked about a man’s sins in a previous life.” (Notice I did not say which disciples nor did I say that they for sure believed in reincarnation, however, on the face of it, it seems some disciples were asking about pre-birth sins.) Finally I would say, “Jesus had a completely different view of sin and suffering and I believe his teaching. Please listen to these three verses at the beginning of John chapter 9.” At this point I would read to them or invite them to read with me John 9: 1-3, which says:
As he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be made manifest in him.”
Yes, this man suffered and so did his parents because of his blindness, but they all had a chance to experience the works of God made manifest in him.

 

[Skadi]

They are considering poor, blind and black people all as sinners who does not deserves any mercy… As they got sufferings in this life due to sins of past life. If we help them , actually we are doing harm to them, as they cannot escape from sufferings , then they have to suffer in their next birth too. So dont do any charity works.

This is the great advice that christian missionaries got from them, when they came to help poor people.

This is totaly inaccurate… just wow holy **** is that an outrageous blanket claim. That is a belief held by SOME Hindus and you just extended it to a whole afterlife system that varys hugely from religion to religion. The Idea of Karma, that your life is a reflection of past lives, is a Hindu Idea. Buddhists and many other believers in reincarnation do not follow it and believe in other theories, such as random reincarnation, ancestral reincarnation, or ethnic reincarnation.

 

[hannajomar]

I say something like, “Being a Catholic, I believe ___________.” For me, having dialogue is often just explaining to each other what we believe without pressuring the other person to agree with me, and vice verse.

 

[Portofino]

How do Christians keep open dialog with those who believe in reincarnation and past lives.

For New Agers, reincarnation serves a purpose that is roughly similar to the purpose that purgatory plays in the Catholic tradition.

For a New Ager, we are not yet “ready” to move to the next plane of existence; we have too much negativity in us, too much fear, too much – indeed – separation from the divine source. This world is a school room and we learn our lessons, until we are ready to “evolve” into a next plane of existence, that is more in harmony with the divine.

In very rough terms, this serves a similar role to the Catholic notion of purgatory – this idea of souls that are not yet ready for heaven.

So there is common ground there, with the New Agers, more so than there would be with Protestants, who do not believe in purgatory.

I suppose you would tell them that Catholics do not believe in reincarnation; however; they do believe in purgatory, where an imperfect soul, that is heaven bound, “prepares itself” to enter the perfection of heaven.

For New Agers, this life – in the here and now – is our purgatory, and we will continue to come back, again and again, until we are ready to enter into heaven, to be with God.

A big difference is that, for New Agers who believe in reincarnation, this life is not so much about expiating for sins so much as learning from mistakes that cause us suffering (karma, “as you reap, you will sow”) and realizing that, if we want the pain to stop, we’ll need to learn from our mistakes and do better.

 

[jerry_joseph]

This is totaly inaccurate… just wow holy **** is that an outrageous blanket claim. That is a belief held by SOME Hindus and you just extended it to a whole afterlife system that varys hugely from religion to religion. The Idea of Karma, that your life is a reflection of past lives, is a Hindu Idea. Buddhists and many other believers in reincarnation do not follow it and believe in other theories, such as random reincarnation, ancestral reincarnation, or ethnic reincarnation.

I think it is originated from human way of thinking to find out the cause for sufferings in life. Also , when a soul wants to enter into heaven or to unify with the God, requires fullness of purity. Birth and rebirth is another chance for soul , to purify through sufferings and to do good deeds for salvation.For them there is no hell, sufferings are in this world.

 

[openmind77]

They are considering poor, blind and black people all as sinners who does not deserves any mercy… As they got sufferings in this life due to sins of past life. If we help them , actually we are doing harm to them, as they cannot escape from sufferings , then they have to suffer in their next birth too. So dont do any charity works.

This is the great advice that christian missionaries got from them, when they came to help poor people.

Now, now, Mr Joseph! Bearing false witness is a mortal sin. Spreading other people’s lies is equally bad. You had better run over and confess / repent because if you get hit by a bus today, we don’t want you to go where unrepentant sinners go.

 

[openmind77]

I think it is originated from human way of thinking to find out the cause for sufferings in life. Also , when a soul wants to enter into heaven or to unify with the God, requires fullness of purity. Birth and rebirth is another chance for soul , to purify through sufferings and to do good deeds for salvation.For them there is no hell, sufferings are in this world.

I am not sure where you got the idea that there is no hell in Hinduism or there is no hell according to people who believe in reincarnation. There is definitely a concept of hell, except that it is not eternal. The sinner after spending the appropriate amount of time in hell as punishment, is reborn to try and lead a better life next time around. Eventually after many lifetimes, if he learns to be a good person and becomes pure enough (almost saintly), he will be allowed into heaven for eternity.

According to the Catholic Church, on the other hand, the person who tried to assassinate Pope John Paul, since he has repented (he actually met and talked with the Pope), may now be destined for eternal heaven (after purgatory) to sit next to the Pope grinning possibly from ear to ear (however there is some small question about there being a body or ears in heaven).

 

[ellzeena]

Now, now, Mr Joseph! Bearing false witness is a mortal sin. Spreading other people’s lies is equally bad. You had better run over and confess / repent because if you get hit by a bus today, we don’t want you to go where unrepentant sinners go.

He’s not “bearing false witness”, he’s attempting an explanation of reincarnation as he sees it or has learned it. And he’s not “spreading other people’s lies” either! Explaining (or trying to) a belief system which with WE do not agree is not spreading “lies”. Ye gads your judgment here is quite harsh, I think you might want to watch out for that bus. Just sayin…

 

[openmind77]

He’s not “bearing false witness”, he’s attempting an explanation of reincarnation as he sees it or has learned it. And he’s not “spreading other people’s lies” either! Explaining (or trying to) a belief system which with WE do not agree is not spreading “lies”. Ye gads your judgment here is quite harsh, I think you might want to watch out for that bus. Just sayin…

He is telling the truth? From personal knowlege? Do you know someone who believes in reincarnation and also says people don’t deserve mercy? What has mercy got to do with reincarnation?

They are considering poor, blind and black people all as sinners who does not deserves any mercy…

Who are ‘they’ that he is talking about? This is not slander? Has he met and talked to ‘them’? Have you met these people who consider that someone does not deserve mercy?

So dont do any charity works…

So only people who do not believe in reincarnation do charity work? This is not lies? Is this the way to explain someone’s belief system, by ascribing false motives onto them?

So you are saying making false statements about a large number of people is not a mortal sin? So it is just a minor sin according to the Church? Or it not a sin at all - just some casual, friendly accusations? Or do you yourself actually believe it is true that people who believe in reincarnation don’t believe in mercy? That people who believe in eternal damnation are far more merciful (or are the only merciful ones)? That people who believe in eternal damnation are the only ones who do ‘charity works’?

 

[superwimp]

How do Christians keep open dialog with those who believe in reincarnation and past lives.

Hello Giggly Giraffe,

 There are many versions of the afterlife held by multiple lifetime people just like there are many versions of the afterlife held by the one lifetime only people.  I personally believe in the version of reincarnation as taught by the psychic Edgar Cayce.

From my perspective the major difference between the two groups is we (MLP) believe our life on earth is a learning opportunity while OLOP believe life is a test.  Those OLOP who believe in an afterlife usually are provided some sort of edge over everyone else by there respective religious organizations.  Evangelicals accept Jesus as their savior, LDS Mormons do various temple ceremonies, and Catholics have their sacraments.  Oftentimes they'll place a great deal of importance on correct doctrine.  For MLP there is no quick fixes that will give us an edge.

 

[billcu1]

I am not sure where you got the idea that there is no hell in Hinduism or there is no hell according to people who believe in reincarnation. There is definitely a concept of hell, except that it is not eternal. The sinner after spending the appropriate amount of time in hell as punishment, is reborn to try and lead a better life next time around. Eventually after many lifetimes, if he learns to be a good person and becomes pure enough (almost saintly), he will be allowed into heaven for eternity.

According to the Catholic Church, on the other hand, the person who tried to assassinate Pope John Paul, since he has repented (he actually met and talked with the Pope), may now be destined for eternal heaven (after purgatory) to sit next to the Pope grinning possibly from ear to ear (however there is some small question about there being a body or ears in heaven).

Some people sure are misinformed aren’t they? Some people think yoga is bad. It only means to “yoak” to the divine. The rosary is an excellent yoga. To me philosophically it only makes sense that if you’re dead you must’ve been alive. And if you’re alive at some point you must’ve been dead.

 

[jerry_joseph]

He is telling the truth? From personal knowlege? Do you know someone who believes in reincarnation and also says people don’t deserve mercy? What has mercy got to do with reincarnation?
Who are ‘they’ that he is talking about? This is not slander? Has he met and talked to ‘them’? Have you met these people who consider that someone does not deserve mercy?

So only people who do not believe in reincarnation do charity work? This is not lies? Is this the way to explain someone’s belief system, by ascribing false motives onto them?

Who are Dailts and Shudras?. Why they are considered as untouchables as per your religion?. What caused them to born as Dalits and shudras?.

bhagwanvalmiki.com/manu-smriti.htm

dalitsolidarity.org/dalits-and-untoucchability.html

So you are saying making false statements about a large number of people is not a mortal sin? So it is just a minor sin according to the Church? Or it not a sin at all - just some casual, friendly accusations? Or do you yourself actually believe it is true that people who believe in reincarnation don’t believe in mercy? That people who believe in eternal damnation are far more merciful (or are the only merciful ones)? That people who believe in eternal damnation are the only ones who do ‘charity works’?

In the following link , it is mentioned about what type of birth you will get in next life or sufferings you will get in this life based on your deeds of this life.

askastrologer.com/articles/Sinsandsufferings.html

I think these faiths are based on a belief that man should be pure to go to heaven or to unify with God , Same like purgatory in catholic faith. They belive that sins of this life is purified through sufferings of this life or in next birth. Any way there is a Goodness in this belief system as they are aimed to keep people to abstain from doing sins. That I admit.

 

[openmind77]

Who are Dailts and Shudras?. Why they are considered as untouchables as per your religion?. What caused them to born as Dalits and shudras?.

bhagwanvalmiki.com/manu-smriti.htm

dalitsolidarity.org/dalits-and-untoucchability.html

In the following link , it is mentioned about what type of birth you will get in next life or sufferings you will get in this life based on your deeds of this life.

askastrologer.com/articles/Sinsandsufferings.html

I think these faiths are based on a belief that man should be pure to go to heaven or to unify with God , Same like purgatory in catholic faith. They belive that sins of this life is purified through sufferings of this life or in next birth. Any way there is a Goodness in this belief system as they are aimed to keep people to abstain from doing sins. That I admit.

I am not sure what Dalits etc have to do with belief in reincarnation. You are mixing up talking about reincarnation with discussing karma and what type of birth you will have, Just stick to reincarnation for now. Just fyi: Manu Smriti is just like the Old Testament - lots of weird stuff (no massacres though). However, Hindus don’t consider Manu Smriti revealed scripture as you consider the OT (it is just a Book of Laws written by men).

I certainly believe a person should be very pure for entering eternal heaven, that is why it takes so many lifetimes. I don’t believe that just some time in purgatory (is there time in purgatory?) will make a repentant murderer as good as Mother Teresa or Pope John Paul. But the Catholic Church apparently thinks so - so all three will be in eternal heaven together.

 

[Skadi]

I think it is originated from human way of thinking to find out the cause for sufferings in life. Also , when a soul wants to enter into heaven or to unify with the God, requires fullness of purity. Birth and rebirth is another chance for soul , to purify through sufferings and to do good deeds for salvation.For them there is no hell, sufferings are in this world.

Much better said. Although some groups would say its less about suffering and more about a learning journey. Wiccans would say each life is another learning journey for our soul. Similarly other people would say it is symbolic of nature and the circle of life. Birth, Life, Death, all in an endless circle.

 

[jerry_joseph]

I am not sure what Dalits etc have to do with belief in reincarnation. You are mixing up talking about reincarnation with discussing karma and what type of birth you will have, Just stick to reincarnation for now.

As per your faith,it is based on the deeds of this life, we will get a good or bad life. You believe that Dalits (blacks) , Poor and handicapped got sufferings because of their sins in past life. They why you tells that it is not relevant to talk about reincarnation (rebirth) with discussing karma and what type of birth you will have. Both are interrelated.

Just fyi: Manu Smriti is just like the Old Testament - lots of weird stuff (no massacres though). However, Hindus don’t consider Manu Smriti revealed scripture as you consider the OT (it is just a Book of Laws written by men).

So you also have a book like OT. Then why you always blames God in OT as an evil God?. If Hindus does not considers Manu Smriti as a sacred scriptures, why entire caste system (racial discrimination) in Hinduism is based on that?. There is no war and violence in this book. But it is guidelines for how to maintain racial discrimination in a society and what type of cruelty can be done against Dalits and Shudras.

I certainly believe a person should be very pure for entering eternal heaven, that is why it takes so many lifetimes. I don’t believe that just some time in purgatory (is there time in purgatory?) will make a repentant murderer as good as Mother Teresa or Pope John Paul. But the Catholic Church apparently thinks so - so all three will be in eternal heaven together.

So as per your faith a murderer can go to heaven if he does good deeds in future life without repentance.?. In Christianity God will look into the heart of a murderer. He can understand that whether his repentance is from fullness of heart or not.

Also as per my knowledge, a person who dies with mortal sin without repentance will not go to purgatory. He will go to hell.

Why , a person who is purified from his sin ( through sufferings in purgatory) cannot be considered as a Good person?. If he is not purified from his sin , then how can we believe that he can enter into heaven?. Then what do you mean by purification from sins?

Do you believe that a person even after suffering (ie paid for his sin) still binding with that sin?. Then how he can attain salvation through birth and re birth?.