Past lives & reincarnation

[Skadi]

"If you see your brother committing sin, a sin which does not lead to death, pray for him, and God will give life to your brother. I speak, of course, of the sin which does not lead to death. There is also a sin that leads to death; I do not speak of praying about this.Every kind of wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin leads to death. (1 John 5:16-17)

It is clear in this verse about the difference between mortal sin and venial sin.

He made us in his image. He also gifted us with free will. He does not created us as a machine (for doing one thing only), He needs us to do good deeds from our free will. He is the only animal that can do Good deeds from their full conscience or Can do sins from their full conscience.

So human beings are able to do all types of Good and Bad deeds. Because we have freedom.

I dont think you answered my question but to be honest I realy wasnt expecting one anyway.

 

[fred_smurf]

I dont think you answered my question but to be honest I realy wasnt expecting one anyway.

We were made perfect through the grace of God on the cross, the grace of God is a gift it cannot be purchased you are made a saint through the blood of Jesus, if you sin go to God with it and ash for forgiveness and you are forgiving.

 

[fred_smurf]

2 Maccabees 12:46 (Douay-Rheims)

46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

The book of Maccabees was omitted by the Jews who wrote it and removed by the Christian church bar the Catholic’s, its looked on as a referent book by the Jews but not a part of the Tanah (Hebrew Bible) nonetheless it contain much value and is worthy of study, even if the rabbis did not consider it to be divinely inspired or as holy as the Bible. With all due respected I know this is to you a part of the Bible and this site is Catholic. All my opinions are with love

 

[jerry_joseph]

I dont think you answered my question but to be honest I realy wasnt expecting one anyway.

God gifted us with free will. We are free to choose good and evil. If we are doing sins , then it means that we are not perfect like God. God wants us to become perfect through doing Virtues. We used our freedom to choose Evil. Think if God takes away the freedom of choice, then how we can called be free?. If we arfe not free , then how we can call the we are in his likeness?..

 

[jerry_joseph]

Origen A.D. 185-232 , about purgatory.

If a man departs this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (I Cor., 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works. (Patres Groeci. XIII, col. 445, 448 [A.D. 185-232]).

 

[jerry_joseph]

Augustine

There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity l8:69 [A.D. 421]).

 

[jerry_joseph]

The book of Maccabees was omitted by the Jews who wrote it and removed by the Christian church bar the Catholic’s, its looked on as a referent book by the Jews but not a part of the Tanah (Hebrew Bible) nonetheless it contain much value and is worthy of study, even if the rabbis did not consider it to be divinely inspired or as holy as the Bible. With all due respected I know this is to you a part of the Bible and this site is Catholic. All my opinions are with love

All ancient churches in this world such as catholic, eastern orthodox churches and Coptic churches considers deutero canonical books as part of bible. Those christian churches originated 16 centuries after christ (protestant ) and those originated 20 centuries after christ does not considers these as part of bible. Because they say that jews does not considers this as part of their hebrew bible. Jews rejected these books in Jamnia Council (AD 90) stating that hebrew translations of these books are not available. .

But this is a wrong decision. Dead sea scrolls at Qumran contains fragments of three deutero canonical books. So , now the argument - (Hebrew translations are not available ) is not valid.

Also it is almost a century after the origin of christianity , this decision was taken by jews. Those decisions of jews , which was taken after , the God choosed a new people as new Israel (ie church) is not binding on Christians

Also all ancient christian churches considers these as part of bible. For christians we should check whether jesus or any apostoles quoted from these books. There are lot of new testament verses from these so called deuterocanonical books.

So if Jesus and Apostoles consdiered these as holy scriptures, why christians should consider this as not a holy scripture?. All ancient christian churches Catholic, Orthodox and Coptic churches consideres this as part of bible.

 

[jerry_joseph]

I would like to quote some of those verses from duetero canonical books quoted in new testament.

· (Matthew 2:16): Herod’s decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in (Wisdom 11:7) slaying the holy innocents.

· (Matthew 6:19-20): Jesus’ statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows (Sirach 29:11) lay up your treasure.

· (Matthew 7:12): The Lord Jesus’ golden rule “do unto others” is the converse of (Tobit 4:15) what you hate, do not do to others.

· (Matthew 7:16, 20): The Lord Jesus’ statement “you will know them by their fruits” follows (Sirach 27:6) the fruit discloses the cultivation.

· (Matthew 9:36): The people were “like sheep without a shepherd” is same as (Judith 11:19) sheep without a shepherd.

· (Matthew 11:25): The Lord Jesus’ description “Lord of heaven and earth” is the same as (Tobit 7:18) Lord of heaven and earth.

· (Matthew 12:42): The Lord Jesus refers to the Wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the Deuterocanonical Books.

· (Matthew 16:18): The Jesus’ reference to the “power of death” and “gates of Hades” references (Wisdom 16:13).

· (Matthew 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29): The Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of (Tobit 3:8 and 7:11) regarding the seven brothers.

· (Matthew 24:15): The “desolating sacrilege” our Lord Jesus refers to is also matching (1Maccabee 1:54 and 2Maccabee 8:17).

· (Matthew 24:16): Let those “flee to the mountains” is taken from (1Maccabee 2:28).

· (Matthew 27:43): If He is God’s Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows (Wisdom 2:18).

· (Mark 4:5, 16-17): Our Lord Jesus’ description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows (Sirach 40:15).

· (Mark 9:48): Description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references (Judith 16:17).

· (Luke 1:42): St. Elizabeth’s declaration of St. Mary’s blessedness above all women follows Uzziah’s declaration in (Judith 13:18).

· (Luke 1:52): St. Mary’s magnificently addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows (Sirach 10:14).

· (Luke 2:29): St. Simeon’s declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows (Tobit 11:9).

· (Luke 13:29): The Lord’s description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows (Baruch 4:37).

· (Luke 21:24): Our Lord Jesus’ usage of “fall by the edge of the sword” follows (Sirach 28:18).

· (Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10): St. Luke’s description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of (2Maccabee 3:26).

· (John 1:3): All things were made through Him, the Word, follows (Wisdom 9:1).

· (John 3:13): Who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references (Baruch 3:29).

· (John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12): Our Lord Jesus’and both Sts. Luke’s and Paul’s usage of “signs and wonders” follows (Wisdom 8:8).

· (John 5:18): Our Lord Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows (Wisdom 2:16).

· (John 6:35-59): The Lord Jesus’ Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in (Sirach 24:21).

· (John 10:22): The identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from (1Maccabee 4:59).

· (John 15:6): Branches that don’t bear fruit and are cut down follows (Wisdom 4:5) where branches are broken off.

· (Acts 1:15): St. Luke’s reference to the 120 may be a reference to (1Maccabee 3:55) leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

· (Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Galatians 2:6): Sts. Peter’s and Paul’s statement that God shows no partiality references (Sirach 35:12).

· (Acts 17:29): The description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows (Wisdom 13:10).

· (Romans 1:18-25): St. Paul’s teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows (Wisdom 13:1-10).

· (Romans 1:20): Specifically, God’s existence being evident in nature follows (Wisdom 13:1).

 

[jerry_joseph]

· (Romans 1:23): The sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows (Wisdom 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8).

· (Romans 1:24-27): This idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows (Wisdom 14:12, 24-27).

· (Romans 4:17): Abraham is a father of many nations follows (Sirach 44:19).

· (Romans 5:12): Description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to (Wisdom 2:24).

· (Romans 9:21): Usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows (Wisdom 15:7).

· (1Corinthians 2:16): St. Paul’s question, “who has known the mind of the Lord?” references (Wisdom 9:13).

· (1Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26): Warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows (Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30).

· (1Corinthians 8:5-6): St. Paul acknowledging many “gods” but one Lord follows (Wisdom 13:3).

· (1Cor. 10:1): St. Paul’s description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to (Wisdom 19:7).

· (1Corinthians 10:20): What pagans’ sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to (Baruch 4:7).

· (1Corinthians 15:29): If no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows (2Maccabee 12:43-45).

· (Ephesians 1:17): Paul’s prayer for a “spirit of wisdom” follows the prayer for the spirit of wisdom in (Wisdom 7:7).

· (Ephesians 6:14): St. Paul describing the breastplate of righteousness is the same as (Wisdom 5:18). See also (Isaiah 59:17 and 1Thessalonicans 5:8).

· (Ephesians 6:13-17): In fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows (Wisdom 5:17-20).

· (1Timothy 6:15): St. Paul’s description of God as Sovereign and King of kings follows (2Maccabee 12:15; 13:4).

· (2Timothy 4:8): St. Paul’s description of a crown of righteousness is similar to (Wisdom 5:16).

· (Hebrew 4:12): St. Paul’s description of God’s word as a sword is similar to (Wisdom 18:15).

· (Hebrew 11:5): Enoch being taken up is also referenced in (Wisdom 4:10 and Sirach 44:16). See also (2Kings 2:1-13 & Sirach 48:9) regarding Elijah.

· (Hebrew 11:35): St. Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in (2Maccabee 6:18, 7:1-42).

· (Hebrew 12:12): The description “drooping hands” and “weak knees” comes from (Sirach 25:23).

· (James 1:19): Let every man be quick to hear and slow to respond follows (Sirach 5:11).

· (James 2:23): It was reckoned to him as righteousness follows (1Maccabee 2:52) it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

· (James 3:13): St. James’ instruction to perform works in meekness follows (Sirach 3:17).

· (James 5:3): Describing silver which rusts and laying up treasure follows (Sirach 29:10-11).

· (James 5:6): Condemning and killing the “righteous man” follows (Wisdom 2:10-20).

· (1Peter 1:6-7): St. Peter teaches about testing faith by purgatorial fire as described in (Wisdom 3:5-6 and Sirach 2:5).

· (1Peter 1:17): God judging each one according to his deeds refers to (Sirach 16:12) God judges man according to his deeds.

· (2Peter 2:7): God’s rescue of a righteous man (Lot) is also described in (Wisdom 10:6).

· (Revelation 1:18; Matt. 16:18): Power of life over death and gates of Hades follows (Wisdom 16:13).

· (Revelation 2:12): Reference to the two-edged sword is similar to the description of God’s Word in (Wisdom 18:16).

· (Revelation 5:7): God is described as seated on His throne, and this is the same description used in (Sirach 1:8).

· (Revelation 8:3-4): Prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows (Tobit 12:12, 15).

· (Revelation 8:7): Raining of hail and fire to the earth follows (Wisdom 16:22 and Sirach 39:29).

· (Revelation 9:3): Raining of locusts on the earth follows (Wisdom 16:9).

· (Revelation 11:19): The vision of the Ark of the Covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in (2Maccabee 2:7).

· (Revelation 17:14): Description of God as King of kings follows (2Maccabee 13:4).

· (Revelation 19:1): The cry “Hallelujah” at the coming of the New Jerusalem follows (Tobit 13:18).

· (Revelation 19:11): The description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows (2Maccabee 3:25; 11:8).

· (Revelation 19:16): Description of our Lord as King of kings is taken from (2Maccabee 13:4).

· (Revelation 21:19): The description of the New Jerusalem with precious stones is prophesied in (Tobit 13:17).

· (Exodus 23:7): Do not slay the innocent and righteous. (Daniel 13:53) do not put to death an innocent and righteous person.

 

[jerry_joseph]

So if Jesus and Apostoles consdiered these as holy scriptures, why christians should consider this as not a holy scripture?. All ancient christian churches Catholic, Orthodox and Coptic churches consideres this as part of bible.

 

[Skadi]

God gifted us with free will. We are free to choose good and evil. If we are doing sins , then it means that we are not perfect like God. God wants us to become perfect through doing Virtues. We used our freedom to choose Evil. Think if God takes away the freedom of choice, then how we can called be free?. If we arfe not free , then how we can call the we are in his likeness?..

Well, very thorough explanation on your part. Thats where we differ in belief, but thank you for a stating the christian position in good detail.

 

[fred_smurf]

So if Jesus and Apostoles consdiered these as holy scriptures, why christians should consider this as not a holy scripture?. All ancient christian churches Catholic, Orthodox and Coptic churches consideres this as part of bible.

First of all the Jews are God’s choosing people now and until the sun stops shining, God gave Abraham a proses and we are gaffed in to the Abrahamic covenant

I can quote from the book of Enoch which I love to read just as Jude did

**Jud 1:14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,
**
That doesn’t make it the holy bible, if you won’t pray for the dead go for it! If you won’t call the Apocrypha the Bible, Go for it! If you won’t to pray to Mary and dead saints go for it. I could wright bible text too but I’ve wasted too much time on this, the Catholic Church is court up in too much legalism you negate the power of the blood of Jesus, through the blood we are made perfect he died for all your sin,all

 

[jerry_joseph]

First of all the Jews are God’s choosing people now and until the sun stops shining, God gave Abraham a proses and we are gaffed in to the Abrahamic covenant

I can quote from the book of Enoch which I love to read just as Jude did

**Jud 1:14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,
**
That doesn’t make it the holy bible, if you won’t pray for the dead go for it! If you won’t call the Apocrypha the Bible, Go for it! If you won’t to pray to Mary and dead saints go for it. I could wright bible text too but I’ve wasted too much time on this, the Catholic Church is court up in too much legalism you negate the power of the blood of Jesus, through the blood we are made perfect he died for all your sin,all

Jews are Gods chosen people.But now they dont have any role in establishing kingdom of God. God is waiting for their return. Now God had selected new people, established new covenant with them . Ie church.

If jesus and apostoles considered these as holy scriptures and taken lot of verses from this for teaching, then why christians should not consider this as part of bible.?. Then whom you are following jesus or jews who rejected jesus?. All ancient churches in this world consider these as part of bible. They don’t have any doubt in the validity of these scriptures which Jesus and Apostles had used. They don’t cared about the decisions of Jewish priests in this matter. Only those Christian churches which originated after sixteen and twenty centuries after Christ took jewish stand on this.

Jesus died for all our sin and granted us gift of salvation. Nobody negates the power of blood of jesus. Church help us to stay in the grace of God.

We believe that if we pray to saints they will in turn pray for us to God and bring blessings to us. All ancient christian churches Catholic, Orthodox and Coptic churches venerates mary and honors saints.

In bible it is clearly mentioned about prayers of saints submitting before God.

" when he took it, the four living creatures prostrated themselves before him and with them the twenty-four elders; each one of them was holding a harp and had a golden bowl full of incense which are the prayers of the saints." Revelation 5:8

“Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. A large quantity of incense was given to him to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that stood in front of the throne; and so from the angel’s hand the smoke of the incense went up in the presence of God and with it the prayers of the saints.” Revelation 8: 3-4

 

[fred_smurf]

Jews are Gods chosen people.But now they dont have any role in establishing kingdom of God. God is waiting for their return. Now God had selected new people, established new covenant with them . Ie church.

If jesus and apostoles considered these as holy scriptures and taken lot of verses from this for teaching, then why christians should not consider this as part of bible.?. Then whom you are following jesus or jews who rejected jesus?. All ancient churches in this world consider these as part of bible. They don’t have any doubt in the validity of these scriptures which Jesus and Apostles had used. They don’t cared about the decisions of Jewish priests in this matter. Only those Christian churches which originated after sixteen and twenty centuries after Christ took jewish stand on this.

Jesus died for all our sin and granted us gift of salvation. Nobody negates the power of blood of jesus. Church help us to stay in the grace of God.

We believe that if we pray to saints they will in turn pray for us to God and bring blessings to us. All ancient christian churches Catholic, Orthodox and Coptic churches venerates mary and honors saints.

In bible it is clearly mentioned about prayers of saints submitting before God.

" when he took it, the four living creatures prostrated themselves before him and with them the twenty-four elders; each one of them was holding a harp and had a golden bowl full of incense which are the prayers of the saints." Revelation 5:8

“Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. A large quantity of incense was given to him to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar that stood in front of the throne; and so from the angel’s hand the smoke of the incense went up in the presence of God and with it the prayers of the saints.” Revelation 8: 3-4

I could tell you what I think and where the writings and quote, copy’s relate too, instead I will agree to dis-agree, frankly life too short; am so self-assured about my salvation, my relationship with Jesus that I can relax that all my sin is as far as the east is from the west, God doesn’t see them any more I feel sorry for you that you haven’t aloud Jesus blood to cleanses you God bless you

 

[Techno2000]

I could tell you what I think and where the writings and quote, copy’s relate too, instead I will agree to dis-agree, frankly life too short; am so self-assured about my salvation, my relationship with Jesus that I can relax that all my sin is as far as the east is from the west, God doesn’t see them any more I feel sorry for you that you haven’t aloud Jesus blood to cleanses you God bless you

Colossians 1:24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

 

[jerry_joseph]

I could tell you what I think and where the writings and quote, copy’s relate too, instead I will agree to dis-agree, frankly life too short; am so self-assured about my salvation, my relationship with Jesus that I can relax that all my sin is as far as the east is from the west, God doesn’t see them any more I feel sorry for you that you haven’t aloud Jesus blood to cleanses you God bless you

I respect your faith in Jesus. But I don’t believe in your self claim that you have already attained salvation.

“We are associated with Christ provided we hold steadfastly to our initial hope until the end.” Hebrew 3:14

“ Therefore, if you think you stand, beware, lest you fall”. 1 Corinthians 10:12

Apostle St Paul reminds us, “ Therefore, my dearest friends, as you always obeyed me while I was with you, even more now that I am far from you, continue working out your salvation “with fear and trembling.” Philippians 2:12

“ Like newborn children, seek eagerly for the pure milk of the Word which will help you grow and reach salvation.” 1 peter 2:2

“What a cloud of innumerable witnesses surround us! So let us be rid of every encumbrance, and especially of sin, to persevere in running the race marked out before us.Let us look to Jesus the founder of our faith, who will bring it to completion. For the sake of the joy reserved for him, he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and then sat at the right of the throne of God.” Hebrew 12:1-2

Apostle St Paul tells us to work for salvation and he is also working for his salvation. Apostle didn’t told that he is already saved. But he told that he is working for that. If he believes that he and we are already saved by faith, he will not tell us to work for that, instead he will tell that just sit and relax for your reward. Even St Paul does not believe that he is already saved. Then how can you believe that you are already saved.

We should be firm in our faith, Should grow in our faith, our physical life is full of challenges . “ Strive for peace with all and strive to be holy, for without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Hebrew 12:14

For salvation we should remain in our faith until the end…

“We are associated with Christ provided we hold steadfastly to our initial hope until the end.” Hebrew 3:14

As a Christian , we believe that Jesus saved me. We will get salvation. For that Salvation we are working for that and we will be remain in our faith until the end.

“I do not believe I have already reached the goal, nor do I consider myself perfect, but I press on till I conquer Christ Jesus, as I have already been conquered by him. No, brothers and sisters, I do not claim to have claimed the prize yet. I say only this: forgetting what is behind me, I race forward and run towards the goal, my eyes on the prize to which God has called us from above in Christ Jesus. Let all of us who claim to be perfect have the same way of thinking, but if there is something on which you differ, God will make it clear to you. In the meantime, let us hold on to what we have conquered.” Philippians 3: 12-16.

Apostle Paul does not claims that he already reached Goal. He is not considering he is perfect. He is working for that.

Even apostles does not considered that they have already attained salvation, how you can claim that you have already attained salvation. You are not only believing that you are saved but also judging that others are saved or not?. Is it suitable for Christians?. Is it a Christian faith?. How we can judge that we are saved and others are not saved?. Is it Jesus or we , who determines that whether one is saved or not?.