Pastor bringing in Neocatechumenal Way; what should I know?

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**It may be that there is no one now active in the forums who has experience. **

The point has been made that the Church approves of NCW. Allow me a parallel. The Church approves of the Ordinary Form of the Mass. That does not mean that a priest in a neighboring parish follows the rubrics. But so what? That has nothing in particular to do with your parish - it does not mean that if the parish down the road is wrong, that yours will be wrong.

And so if there were some few NCW groups who went off the rails years ago, there is no presumption that yours will. It is a common logical falt to presume that if one is wrong, all are. In the world today, a few goofy groups are the ones which get all the ink. The ones which are not goofy have nothing to say, and because they are not heard from,all presume that the goofy ones are the norm. False assumption.
A wise post. I had also begun to come to the conclusion that you expressed in the bolded above.

The main thrust of the NCW seems to be to provide “post-baptismal formation to adults who are already members of the Church or to those far from the Church who have been attracted by the testimony of Christian life of love and unity in the communities” (from the Wiki article). However, I came in as a convert in at process that started 12+ years ago and included a lot of self-catechesis, (a half-dozen books of conversion stories, Catholicism for Dummies, the Catechism, and lots of other books aimed at explaining Catholicism to devout Protestants. In addition, my annual Lenten project is to go thru the Catechism (both the Compendium and the book itself) and compare what I’m reading to my own life. Besides, I am just ending the 7th decade of my life.

So I think I can safely leave NCW alone when it comes in.
 
A wise post. I had also begun to come to the conclusion that you expressed in the bolded above.

The main thrust of the NCW seems to be to provide “post-baptismal formation to adults who are already members of the Church or to those far from the Church who have been attracted by the testimony of Christian life of love and unity in the communities” (from the Wiki article). However, I came in as a convert in at process that started 12+ years ago and included a lot of self-catechesis, (a half-dozen books of conversion stories, Catholicism for Dummies, the Catechism, and lots of other books aimed at explaining Catholicism to devout Protestants. In addition, my annual Lenten project is to go thru the Catechism (both the Compendium and the book itself) and compare what I’m reading to my own life. Besides, I am just ending the 7th decade of my life.

So I think I can safely leave NCW alone when it comes in.
7th decade? Welcome to the club.

I don’t know much about NCW, but consider that it might be both a source of learning and of sharing what you know. I would suspect that one does not have to make a blood oath and promise the life of one’s first born to participate… :D. Sounds like you are doing fine.
 
A wise post. I had also begun to come to the conclusion that you expressed in the bolded above.

The main thrust of the NCW seems to be to provide “post-baptismal formation to adults who are already members of the Church or to those far from the Church who have been attracted by the testimony of Christian life of love and unity in the communities” (from the Wiki article). However, I came in as a convert in at process that started 12+ years ago and included a lot of self-catechesis, (a half-dozen books of conversion stories, Catholicism for Dummies, the Catechism, and lots of other books aimed at explaining Catholicism to devout Protestants. In addition, my annual Lenten project is to go thru the Catechism (both the Compendium and the book itself) and compare what I’m reading to my own life. Besides, I am just ending the 7th decade of my life.

So I think I can safely leave NCW alone when it comes in.
You could do that.
Or you could give it a chance and realize that Catholicism is not just about learning doctrine & dogma but also being part of a community of believers.
I am always skeptical of people who feel that they have nothing left to learn.
Would it be so horrible to attend a meeting and give it a chance? You may not learn anything new about the faith, but you may learn new expressions of the faith.
 
You could do that.
Or you could give it a chance and realize that Catholicism is not just about learning doctrine & dogma but also being part of a community of believers.
I am always skeptical of people who feel that they have nothing left to learn.
Would it be so horrible to attend a meeting and give it a chance? You may not learn anything new about the faith, but you may learn new expressions of the faith.
Umm, I don’t believe I said that. However, what I’m running into is the law of diminishing returns. Also, I could learn what NCW has to teach by reading their books. However, and here’s a not-very-big surprise, their books aren’t available to the unlearned public.
 
Umm, I don’t believe I said that. However, what I’m running into is the law of diminishing returns. Also, I could learn what NCW has to teach by reading their books. However, and here’s a not-very-big surprise, their books aren’t available to the unlearned public.
I didn’t say you said it, but it is what came across to me in your post.

I don’t know anything about NCW, but I would guess that if their books are not available to the general public, it’s because they are more experiential than book learning.

That is all I meant with my first comment- some people I have found are quite happy with “book learning”, but when it comes to actually sharing what they know and learning from others and their experiences, it is way out of some comfort zones.

My feeling is, that is exactly what Jesus wants from us, to be part of a community.

Not saying I am right and you are wrong, just trying to give you a different perspective to think about.
 
Umm, I don’t believe I said that. However, what I’m running into is the law of diminishing returns.
I am the same way about retreats. I am not saying I would never go on a group retreat, but it has been a while since one has interested me. Likewise, I would have no interest in the NW, but that is not an option for here. I would suggest if your bishop is allowing the group to operate in his diocese, allow him the benefit of the doubt that he has oversight of the group. I am sure your priest will keep on top of it and discontinue it if it becomes problematic.
 
Years ago in a former parish, I stumbled into a couple of Neocatechumenal Way events accidentally when I tried making visits to the Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration Chapel. And when I simply posted here on CAF about what I had personally observed and experienced regarding the Neocatechumenal Way, I seem to recall at least one CAF member taking great exception to what I posted …

To me, even that reaction back then to my posting my experiences of the Neocatechumenal Way seemed like a warning sign, because I believe people should be able to discuss and disagree in a mutually civilized, courteous, and respectful manner, if not a friendly one. Am not sure at this point whether the person who disagreed with me was or was not in any way involved with the Neocatechumenal Way.

When I’ve posted my feelings on Dominican nuns or Carthusian spirituality, or even programs like Christ Renews His Parish (which I have participated in) or my observations on attending Donut Sunday as a single woman, … nothing I’ve ever said about those charisms, Orders, groups, or events ever elicited the kind of emotional response from people that talking about the Neocatechumenal Way did.

Meanwhile, I have found a new parish with a Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration Chapel, where I can make a visit to Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament in peace and quiet. That and the daily Rosary are what I am into these days.

 
My late wife was Roman Catholic. She was disabled, and home bound. While an Eucharistic Minister could, and did, bring her Communion no priest would come and hear her confession. We called a number of nearby parishes and got no response.

When she was hospitalized, a priest from the NeoCathecumenal Way visited her. He went to their seminary and was sent to America as a missionary for them. When she told him that she couldn’t get a priest come to our home to hear her confession, he promised her that he would visit her every week. And he did it. For two straight years. If he is any indicator of the character of people in the NeoCatechumenal Way you should thank God for this great blessing. "You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. " – Matthew 7:16-17
 
My late wife was Roman Catholic. She was disabled, and home bound. While an Eucharistic Minister could, and did, bring her Communion no priest would come and hear her confession. We called a number of nearby parishes and got no response.

When she was hospitalized, a priest from the NeoCathecumenal Way visited her. He went to their seminary and was sent to America as a missionary for them. When she told him that she couldn’t get a priest come to our home to hear her confession, he promised her that he would visit her every week. And he did it. For two straight years. If he is any indicator of the character of people in the NeoCatechumenal Way you should thank God for this great blessing. "You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. " – Matthew 7:16-17
I can whole-heartedly respect that; it’s the conduct of the groups that concerns me. Thanks you for sharing, and my your late wife rest in peace and see the face of God.
 
Let’s just say that I read a lot of “stuff” (anecdotal evidence) that local NCW groups were being conducted in such a way that there were liturgical abuses, abuses of people’s rights to privacy, and cult-like activities, but what I was reading was several years old. A lot of it was from threads here on CAF. What I’m asking is if these kinds of activities are still going on, or if NCW has been straightened out and is conducting its activities in accordance with Catholic standards.
I think your concern is valid. As we know, many groups and Religious Orders approved by the Church occasionally fall into bad management, and often the Pope is unaware. For example, the Carmelites had become so corrupt that God sent Saint Teresa of Avila and Saint John of the Cross to correct it and bring it back to its original charism. This has also happened with the Dominicans, Franciscans and Benedictines at certain points in history.

I don’t have any personal experience with NCW. My pastor brought the group to our parish several years ago, temporarily. I didn’t participate in any activities as my schedule didn’t allow for that. I never heard anything negative, however.

You may want to meet with your pastor privately and discuss your concerns. He may be able to shed some light on the matter.

May God bless you in your love for Holy Mother Church and your parish.🙂
 
Update: The program starts this week, two nights a week. I’m already out two other nights a week, with one of them involving a 110-mile round trip to another part of the state. That said, I’m going to go to this week’s two meetings and see what there is to be seen. The announcement included information that the program was going to last two months, which does not sound like the NCW that I had read about. If there is anything significant for me to report on, I will do so.
 
Update – I went to the first three weeks of meetings, but I dropped out when they brought in the screechy songs. My understanding is that most of the NCW songs were written by Kiko himself. If that is true, (and I’m trying very hard not to be snarky here), then my take is that he should have stuck to art and left music along. It is true that the lyrics of the ones I heard were mostly from Scripture, but the tunes and guitar accompaniments were (to this classically trained musician) embarrassingly bad.

Anyway, they have gotten to the point where they are starting the special NCW Saturday evening Masses this weekend in the Family Life Center gym, conducted by the pastor. His email said, “I think you will find this Mass rewarding because it will give you a different view of the majesty and mystery that is at the heart of the Eucharistic Liturgy.” I may go, just to see what it is like, but I will also be going to our regular Sunday morning Mass.
 
Update – I went to the first three weeks of meetings, but I dropped out when they brought in the screechy songs. My understanding is that most of the NCW songs were written by Kiko himself. If that is true, (and I’m trying very hard not to be snarky here), then my take is that he should have stuck to art and left music along. It is true that the lyrics of the ones I heard were mostly from Scripture, but the tunes and guitar accompaniments were (to this classically trained musician) embarrassingly bad.

Anyway, they have gotten to the point where they are starting the special NCW Saturday evening Masses this weekend in the Family Life Center gym, conducted by the pastor. His email said, “I think you will find this Mass rewarding because it will give you a different view of the majesty and mystery that is at the heart of the Eucharistic Liturgy.” I may go, just to see what it is like, but I will also be going to our regular Sunday morning Mass.
They celebrate the Mass in a gym? Is your parish church not available?
 
They celebrate the Mass in a gym? Is your parish church not available?
Occupied – Mass for the Hispanic community. From what I’ve read, the Saturday night NCW Masses are almost always in family life centers, gyms, etc.
 
Our pastor sent an explanatory email about tonight’s first NCW Mass. According to him, there will be a few . . . umm . . . innovations. I won’t share the actual text (don’t have permission), but here’s a paraphrase:

First, someone (unclear who) will be making a brief statement about each reading before it is read.

Second, after the Gospel has been read, there will be a period of time where anyone in attendance to make a statement about the impact that the readings had on them. This one sounds fishy to me.

Third, the Creed recited will be the Apostles’ Creed.

Fourth, the Sign of Peace will be after the petitions, not after the Our Father.

Finally, there will be a different way of distributing Holy Communion; he gave no details about that, saying that it will be explained during the liturgy.

I’m not sufficiently knowledgeable about the fine details in the rubrics to comment, except for the second item; I’m pretty sure that what is supposed to follow the proclamation of the Gospel is a homily, given by an ordained man. But I am a geezer, and in general geezers don’t like change.

Edit: Lest someone should be concerned that I am being scrupulously concerned about the validity of the Mass, I have done some homework:
catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/invalid-masses
 
I’m going to use yesterday’s post as a “trampoline” off which I can bounce my reactions to last night’s experiences.
Our pastor sent an explanatory email about tonight’s first NCW Mass. According to him, there will be a few . . . umm . . . innovations. I won’t share the actual text (don’t have permission), but here’s a paraphrase:

First, someone (unclear who) will be making a brief statement about each reading before it is read.
The prefatory remarks for the readings were brief and, to my mind, unnecessary (but that’s just me). They were delivered either by the person who was doing the reading or by the “master of ceremonies,” a middle-aged woman whom I did not recognize (but that doesn’t mean anything; there are a lot of people from our parish whom I do not know by face). She also “led the singing” and played guitar to accompany the “songs”.
Second, after the Gospel has been read, there will be a period of time where anyone in attendance to make a statement about the impact that the readings had on them. This one sounds fishy to me.
This did not happen. Our pastor, the only ordained person in the room, read the [lengthy] Gospel from a missallette (!!!), and when that was concluded, he moved right into the homily, omitting what is called the “Echo”. According to the discussion that I heard after Mass, the omission was unintentional. So we were spared listening to unordained people during what was supposed to be time for the homily. However the homily itself was a bright spot. It was longer than usual, but our pastor is a good preacher, and I enjoy listening to him. Also, there were no announcements; those typically take up 5-6 minutes of Sunday homily time, like they did this morning.
Third, the Creed recited will be the Apostles’ Creed.
This was a total goat-rope, with frequent excursions into lines from the Nicene Creed and from mis-memorized versions of the Apostles’ Creed.
Fourth, the Sign of Peace will be after the petitions, not after the Our Father.
Some folks walked around saying “hi” to everyone; others, like me and the older woman next to me, stayed put and just shook hands with each other. The song that was supposed to be sung during this time was basically ignored by everyone except the woman who was trying to lead it.
Finally, there will be a different way of distributing Holy Communion; he gave no details about that, saying that it will be explained during the liturgy.
This whole sequence of events was somewhat troubling. First of all, the Mass took place not in the FLC gym, like I said in a previous post, but in the FLC’s conference room. The “altar” was two folding tables placed side by side and covered with a white cloth (not purple, in accordance with the season). Those attending were seated on the perimeter of the room with the central space open. There were no “kneeling pads”, like we used when we were having Mass in the gym some years ago because the interior of the church was being painted. Nevertheless, when we reached the end of the Sanctus, I went down; then I looked around, and I was the only one kneeling. I stayed down, but after standing for the Our Father and the Agnus Dei, I remained standing.

The Matter for this Mass was valid, but apparently they bake their own bread, and the full wafer was about the diameter of a saucer, which after Consecration was then torn into pieces to match the number of attendees. A friend of mine was in on the baking process, and she confirmed that it was only flour and water, but it baked up about a half inch thick, and it was very, very, VERY chewy. We were instructed to receive in the hand and hold it until everyone had received. After everyone had received, we were instructed to sit down and consume the Host. The Cup was brought to everyone by our priest
Cut for length; see next post.
 
Part deux:

I commented on the “songs” in a post above, after a couple of them had been introduced during the preparatory sessions. Apparently most of the NCW “songs” were written by Kiko. According to his bio, prior to developing the NCW he was an artist. That said, what I have heard tells me (and I speak as a songwriter and classically trained musician) that he has no concept of melody, harmony, and rhythm. The words (I hesitate to call them lyrics) were straight from Holy Scripture, but that doesn’t help when the finished “song” is beyond bad.

I mentioned the skipping of the “Echo”, but after the Prayers of the Faithful, the pastor called for “prayer requests” from the attendees. There were only 21 in attendance, but in a Mass with a church full of people, this could get out of hand.

I am attaching links to a couple articles provided by a priest who is one of my Facebook friends and pen pals, and who has been following my NCW experiences with interest. One of them details recent actions taken by the Archbishop of Guam vis-a-vis the NCW; he is not in our pastor’s chain of command, but the article describes certain liturgical abnormalities that this shepherd has banned, but which were evident during last night Mass. The other article is from Rome and details what Vatican approval of the NCW does NOT include (NCW innovations in the liturgy itself).

The bottom line is that I will have no more to do with the Neocatechumenal Way for several reasons:
  1. We have a beautiful church building (there is a photo in the thread on stained glass windows). I choose to attend Mass there, and not in a gymnasium or a conference room.
  2. The “music”. All other things being equal, that alone would be enough to keep me away.
  3. As a convert, I prefer a Mass where the Celebrant reads the red and does the black, and the Faithful are allowed to follow the instructions in the missalette. If I wanted free-style worship, I’d go back to my Pentecostal roots.
Links:
guampdn.com/story/news/2017/03/15/byrnes-sets-norms-mass/99238776/
catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-approval-for-neo-catechumenal-way-only-applies-to-non-liturgical-catechesis/
 
I give you credit for attending, anticipating that it would be different from what you are used to and most likely from what you prefer. With the experience now, you know that it is not something for you. I should think that others would have had an opposite (positive) reaction and therefore they would benefit from continuing to participate.
 
Part deux:

I commented on the “songs” in a post above, after a couple of them had been introduced during the preparatory sessions. Apparently most of the NCW “songs” were written by Kiko. According to his bio, prior to developing the NCW he was an artist. That said, what I have heard tells me (and I speak as a songwriter and classically trained musician) that he has no concept of melody, harmony, and rhythm. The words (I hesitate to call them lyrics) were straight from Holy Scripture, but that doesn’t help when the finished “song” is beyond bad.

I mentioned the skipping of the “Echo”, but after the Prayers of the Faithful, the pastor called for “prayer requests” from the attendees. There were only 21 in attendance, but in a Mass with a church full of people, this could get out of hand.

I am attaching links to a couple articles provided by a priest who is one of my Facebook friends and pen pals, and who has been following my NCW experiences with interest. One of them details recent actions taken by the Archbishop of Guam vis-a-vis the NCW; he is not in our pastor’s chain of command, but the article describes certain liturgical abnormalities that this shepherd has banned, but which were evident during last night Mass. The other article is from Rome and details what Vatican approval of the NCW does NOT include (NCW innovations in the liturgy itself).

The bottom line is that I will have no more to do with the Neocatechumenal Way for several reasons:
  1. We have a beautiful church building (there is a photo in the thread on stained glass windows). I choose to attend Mass there, and not in a gymnasium or a conference room.
  2. The “music”. All other things being equal, that alone would be enough to keep me away.
  3. As a convert, I prefer a Mass where the Celebrant reads the red and does the black, and the Faithful are allowed to follow the instructions in the missalette. If I wanted free-style worship, I’d go back to my Pentecostal roots.
I find your reaction reasonable. One thing I might do myself is approach the pastor asking what I may do to help in efforts of catechesis; since he is bringing in a missionary group to help with such. There must be a need since this is more than a subtle reminder?
 
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